A QUESTION FOR WHITE AMERICANS...

[Dachshund]

Here's a thought experiment for Whitey Yanks...



The first people to emigrate to the Northern American continent were English people, namely the Puritans (Calvinist Protestants). Between 1620 and 1640 over 10,000 of them sailed from their homes in England to the "New World. Most of them set up shop in what Americans today call New England.


Now imagine that that this never happened... Imagine that no English Puritans nor any other White, North-Western European migrants EVER arrived in the New World in 1620 - or any time at all between then and now, i.e. 2022.


Today there are literally millions of illegal, non-white, non Western European, Third World "asylum-seekers, flooding into the American heartland through a wide- open, Southern Border.: Mexicans;Venezuelans; Haitians; Brazilians; El Salvadorans; Cubans; Nicaraguans; Nigerians; Congolese, Indians; Iraqis; Yemeni; Hondurans, Chinese and such like.


Supposes that instead of the 10,000 English Puritans who sailed to the "New World" in the 17th - century, you chose a random 10,000 of the illegal immigrants currently pouring into the US and magically transferred them back in time (in some special time machine) from today ,2022, back to New England between 1620 and 1640. OK?


So, my question is: "If we imagine this could really be done - that history could be changed like this - what do you think America would look like TODAY?" (And would this be a good thing ?)




Dachshund



DLM...Dachshund Lives Matter !

 

[T. A. Gardner]

If America were settled by the Spanish--which is really what your question amounts to-- then it would look much like Central and South America. A semi-developed nation riddled with poverty, ruled by tinpot dictators and Leftist revolutionaries. The Americas would look more like Third World countries.

It wasn't the race of the settlers that made that difference. It was their social, economic, and religious values that did. The Spanish were White too. So were the French, Portuguese, and Dutch. They all colonized various parts of the world. It was their different social, economic, and religious values that fucked up the areas they colonized for the most part, not their racial characteristics.

 

[Celticguy]

Indigenous people (aka Indians, native americans) would still be "in charge".

 

[archives]

If America were settled by the Spanish--which is really what your question amounts to-- then it would look much like Central and South America. A semi-developed nation riddled with poverty, ruled by tinpot dictators and Leftist revolutionaries. The Americas would look more like Third World countries.

It wasn't the race of the settlers that made that difference. It was their social, economic, and religious values that did. The Spanish were White too. So were the French, Portuguese, and Dutch. They all colonized various parts of the world. It was their different social, economic, and religious values that fucked up the areas they colonized for the most part, not their racial characteristics.

Wait a minute, you saying the Dutch, Spanish, and Portuguese have different social, economic, and religious values than the English and French?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Wait a minute, you saying the Dutch, Spanish, and Portuguese have different social, economic, and religious values than the English and French?

Yes. And, the French and English have different values too.

 

[Celticguy]

Here's a thought experiment for Whitey Yanks...



The first people to emigrate to the Northern American continent were English people, namely the Puritans (Calvinist Protestants). Between 1620 and 1640 over 10,000 of them sailed from their homes in England to the "New World. Most of them set up shop in what Americans today call New England.


Now imagine that that this never happened... Imagine that no English Puritans nor any other White, North-Western European migrants EVER arrived in the New World in 1620 - or any time at all between then and now, i.e. 2022.


Today there are literally millions of illegal, non-white, non Western European, Third World "asylum-seekers, flooding into the American heartland through a wide- open, Southern Border.: Mexicans;Venezuelans; Haitians; Brazilians; El Salvadorans; Cubans; Nicaraguans; Nigerians; Congolese, Indians; Iraqis; Yemeni; Hondurans, Chinese and such like.


Supposes that instead of the 10,000 English Puritans who sailed to the "New World" in the 17th - century, you chose a random 10,000 of the illegal immigrants currently pouring into the US and magically transferred them back in time (in some special time machine) from today ,2022, back to New England between 1620 and 1640. OK?


So, my question is: "If we imagine this could really be done - that history could be changed like this - what do you think America would look like TODAY?" (And would this be a good thing ?)




Dachshund



DLM...Dachshund Lives Matter !

You are aware that Virginia hosted the first permanent settlement of English in the New World, right ?
Jamestown, Capn John Smith, Pocahontas all those guys ? They spread rather quickly in costal Mid-Atlantic areas (including costal Chesapeake Bay). Right up into Maryland and Delaware and down into North Carolina. My wife's people and mine among them. Mainly CofE by the way.

Doesnt really change the question I dont think unless you think the Calvinists were operating differently (which they were not). Eventually the groups met up with one another somewhere in New Jersey or upper Delaware.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

 

[Guno צְבִי]

 

[Dachshund]

If America were settled by the Spanish--which is really what your question amounts to-- then it would look much like Central and South America. A semi-developed nation riddled with poverty, ruled by tinpot dictators and Leftist revolutionaries. The Americas would look more like Third World countries.

It wasn't the race of the settlers that made that difference. It was their social, economic, and religious values that did. The Spanish were White too. So were the French, Portuguese, and Dutch. They all colonized various parts of the world. It was their different social, economic, and religious values that fucked up the areas they colonized for the most part, not their racial characteristics.

White Western culture is objectively superior to any other racial/ethnic culture/civilisation that has emerged in the 6,000 year history of human civilisation (I can easily prove that if you like) So how does a culture that is objectively superior - more refined, more creative, more sophisticated, more advanced, more prosperous, more life-affirming. "fuck up" inferior cultures who are exposed to it. The Black race in America has been exposed to white Western culture for 400 year, yet in every single domain of functioning in America they are on ongoing "train wreck" of: violent crime/property crime, educational failure, single-mother families, delinquency, unemployment, chronic (EXPENSIVE) welfare dependency, drug abuse/addiction, CRT, reparations for historic slavery, lower average life-span, poor self-control, a long history of rioting . Since the era of LBJ's "GREAT SOCIETY" they have been given 22 trillion in government funding (that YOU are still paying off) for all kind of social programs (like HEAD START and AFFIRMATIVE ACTION) to help them clean up their collective act. Net Result? ZERO?



Dachshund



DLM....Dachshund Lives Matter"

 

[Walt]

The first people to emigrate to the Northern American continent were English people, namely the Puritans (Calvinist Protestants).

Not even close. The first people to emigrate to the North American continent would be the Native Americans. The first Europeans to immigrate to the North American continent would be the Spanish. The first English to immigrate to the North American continent would be the Roanoke Colony(not Puritans). The first successful English to immigrate to the North American continent would be the Jamestown Colony(still, not Puritans). So there is no way to get Puritans as the first in almost anything.

The Puritans were influenced by the Reform Ideology of the Calvinists, but were not formally Calvinists. The Pilgrims that were the first Puritans to come to the Americas were Brownists. Robert Browne pointedly rejected Calvinism. So the Pilgrims were not Calvinists. They were Protestants.

Between 1620 and 1640 over 10,000 of them sailed from their homes in England to the "New World. Most of them set up shop in what Americans today call New England.

All the Puritans went to New England, and in particular Plymouth Colony before 1640. The population of Plymouth Colony was 1,020 in 1640, not 10,000. I do not know where you are getting your wrong information from.

Now imagine that that this never happened...

We do not need to imagine. Most of your claims never happened.

Imagine that no English Puritans nor any other White, North-Western European migrants EVER arrived in the New World in 1620 - or any time at all between then and now, i.e. 2022.

So you want us to imagine that the Spanish, French, non-Puritan English, Dutch, Swedish... There was a minor German colony... We could go on and on. It was not just the Puritans.

Today there are literally millions of illegal, non-white, non Western European, Third World "asylum-seekers, flooding into the American heartland through a wide- open, Southern Border.: Mexicans;Venezuelans; Haitians; Brazilians; El Salvadorans; Cubans; Nicaraguans; Nigerians; Congolese, Indians; Iraqis; Yemeni; Hondurans, Chinese and such like.

Border is not open, and if it were open, why would they need to apply for asylum at the border? You contradict yourself. Love them or hate them, Mexicans(and other Latin Americans) are Western. Very few people from beyond the Americas go through the southern border. They can just fly into an airport and apply for asylum. Why bother walking through the desert to a border checkpoint.

So, my question is: "If we imagine this could really be done - that history could be changed like this - what do you think America would look like TODAY?" (And would this be a good thing ?)

The Eurasians would have discovered a route to the Americas sooner or later. Though, I am sure there would have been nicer ways it all could have happened.

 

[Walt]

White Western culture is objectively superior to any other racial/ethnic culture/civilisation that has emerged in the 6,000 year history of human civilisation (I can easily prove that if you like)

OK, you picked the date, so go ahead and prove that "White Western culture" was superior to all other cultures 6,000 years ago. Or how about 5,000 years ago. 4,000 years ago.

Western economies did not surpass China's economy until the 1800's. So that would be thousands of years of them being ahead of westerners economically. There are many (not myself) who argue that China has pulled out ahead again. In that case, western dominance would have been less than 200 years.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Wait a minute, you saying the Dutch, Spanish, and Portuguese have different social, economic, and religious values than the English and French?

T.A. Gardner is an idiot that does not even understand that Spain had a huge role in American History. Spain even helped America in it's revolutionary war with England.

Spain is certainly not a 3rd world country, nor did any of Spain's influences here throughout American History or in it's immigration here harm our country in any way shape or form.

Perhaps Mr. Gardner should educate himself on how Spain did help us and contributed heavily in establishing ourselves as a nation- and in many positive ways- INSTEAD OF SAYING SUCH STUPID HATEFUL THINGS AND LOOKING LIKE SOME KIND OF A RACIST ASSHOLE! Oh well, we have to consider the source!

https://www.emmigration.info/spanish-immigration-to-america.htm

 

[Celticguy]

W Since the era of LBJ's "GREAT SOCIETY" they have been given 22 trillion in government funding (that YOU are still paying off) for all kind of social programs (like HEAD START and AFFIRMATIVE ACTION) to help them clean up their collective act. Net Result? ZERO?

Dachshund



DLM....Dachshund Lives Matter"

actually its not net zero, its net negative.... and quite a lot negative.

 

[Bigdog]

If America were settled by the Spanish--which is really what your question amounts to-- then it would look much like Central and South America. A semi-developed nation riddled with poverty, ruled by tinpot dictators and Leftist revolutionaries. The Americas would look more like Third World countries.

It wasn't the race of the settlers that made that difference. It was their social, economic, and religious values that did. The Spanish were White too. So were the French, Portuguese, and Dutch. They all colonized various parts of the world. It was their different social, economic, and religious values that fucked up the areas they colonized for the most part, not their racial characteristics.

I think the biggest difference was that New England was settled by private citizens, craftsmen, merchants, farmers, etc..

The Latin countries were conquered by a Monarchy's military.

Chile is a first world country. Brazil, Argentina, Mexico and others have been doing a fine job growing their infrastructure.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

T.A. Gardner is an idiot that does not even understand that Spain had a huge role in American History. Spain even helped America in it's revolutionary war with England.

Spain is certainly not a 3rd world country, nor did any of Spain's influences here throughout American History or in it's immigration here harm our country in any way shape or form.

Perhaps Mr. Gardner should educate himself on how Spain did help us and contributed heavily in establishing ourselves as a nation- and in many positive ways- INSTEAD OF SAYING SUCH STUPID HATEFUL THINGS AND LOOKING LIKE SOME KIND OF A RACIST ASSHOLE! Oh well, we have to consider the source!

https://www.emmigration.info/spanish-immigration-to-america.htm

On the other hand, Spain went about colonization far differently from the English in particular, but also the French and Dutch. The Portuguese were if anything even worse than the Spanish.

Spain sought to use colonies solely as a means to extract wealth back to Spain. Colonial production of resources or goods were shipped out of the colony leaving it always unable to thrive economically beyond a small, privileged class of nobility that controlled everything. The Spanish instituted the Hacienda system early on, a more virulent version of the American South's plantations. Land ownership was limited to the nobility given title to huge tracts of land by the crown. Most of that land went unused as well.
The biggest extraction industry in Spanish colonies was mining. Gold and silver were the primary targets. Farming and ranching were limited mostly to self-sustaining needs of the colony outside cash crops that could be exported like sugar cane, cattle, or cocoa.
Spain also forced conversion of natives to Catholicism and imposed it as a state religion on their colonies. Religious freedom was unheard of.
Spain did explore and claim a huge amount of land then often did nothing with it if they didn't find resources that could be easily exploited. Thus, most of the American Southwest went empty and left to Native Americans, even as Spain laid claim to the land.
In Arizona for example, Spanish control went no further north than the Presideo of Tucson manned by a local governor and a couple dozen troops. Outside of that, only the establishment of missions and churches existed.

Spain did little to nothing to help what became the United States and Spanish influence was never strong. The same might be said to a lessor degree about France who never took colonization of the Americas seriously to begin with.

Hispanics, of course, did immigrate to the US, particularly after becoming an independent nation. That's different from Spain's influence on the Americas.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I think the biggest difference was that New England was settled by private citizens, craftsmen, merchants, farmers, etc..

The Latin countries were conquered by a Monarchy's military.

Chile is a first world country. Brazil, Argentina, Mexico and others have been doing a fine job growing their infrastructure.

That and Spain never allowed private property ownership, had ZERO problem with slavery, imposed a state religion, and sought only to exploit resources leaving colonies largely impoverished.
It was only after breaking their hold from Spain that the Spanish American colonies began to flourish. These did variously in improving their conditions. Those that retained the Spanish system and continued to be ruled by dictators did poorly compared to those that started allowing more freedoms.