A majority of white voters elected THE worst president in history. Intelligent???

anatta said:
If you wanna call destroying Libya, screwing up the Russian reset with a worthlessplastic button
and meddling in Syria ( Friends of Syria) a "public service" -that's not my idea of "serving"

Trump was elected as a non-politican. That's how awful DC is. He's obviously sputtering around getting his cabinet in place and finding out DC is s den of vipers.
But his idea for a rapproachment with Putin -after Obama's dithering nothingness and decades of NATO expansion has brought us nothing but cold War 2.0 and Russian expansionism is sound.

Gawd only knows what interventionism we'd be upto with Hilary by now..
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Hillary didn't destroy Libya anymore than reagan brought down communism in Russia. They were brought down by what was happening within... correlation doesn't indicate causation. I suggest nobody can bring down a country that's strong within itself. And I don't care about Hillary and some plastic button, a purely symbolic photo op. But I do care about bush claiming to look into Putin's eyes and getting a sense of his soul. That is flat-out ridiculous. Even bush's own intel told him he should have read intelligence briefs more carefully before opening his mouth. Why does bush get a pass where Hillary doesn't? At least there's honesty in the fact that Hillary and Putin despise each other. I would rather have my president be wary about a guy like Putin instead of putting him on a pedestal higher than Obama.

The same people who elected trump as a non-politician spent eight years calling Obama a community organizer so I have no respect for them. trump hasn't even tried to get a handle on how government works. He thinks he can bully people like he does in business but that's not going to happen. We saw the smackdown he got with his try at repealing Obamacare. Now he's blaming it on Ryan, the Dems, anybody but himself. I believe his idea for a rapproachment with Putin will last as long as Putin doesn't openly criticize him for anything.

Re: NATO, Clinton brought in three nations, Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic. bush43 brought in seven, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia. Obama brought in two, Albania and Croatia. So it looks like the biggest expansion was during the bush years, again no reason to blame Obama for anything.
 
christiefan915 said:
Hillary didn't destroy Libya anymore than reagan brought down communism in Russia. They were brought down by what was happening within... correlation doesn't indicate causation. I suggest nobody can bring down a country that's strong within itself. And I don't care about Hillary and some plastic button, a purely symbolic photo op. But I do care about bush claiming to look into Putin's eyes and getting a sense of his soul. That is flat-out ridiculous. Even bush's own intel told him he should have read intelligence briefs more carefully before opening his mouth. Why does bush get a pass where Hillary doesn't? At least there's honesty in the fact that Hillary and Putin despise each other. I would rather have my president be wary about a guy like Putin instead of putting him on a pedestal higher than Obama.

The same people who elected trump as a non-politician spent eight years calling Obama a community organizer so I have no respect for them. trump hasn't even tried to get a handle on how government works. He thinks he can bully people like he does in business but that's not going to happen. We saw the smackdown he got with his try at repealing Obamacare. Now he's blaming it on Ryan, the Dems, anybody but himself. I believe his idea for a rapproachment with Putin will last as long as Putin doesn't openly criticize him for anything.

Re: NATO, Clinton brought in three nations, Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic. bush43 brought in seven, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia. Obama brought in two, Albania and Croatia. So it looks like the biggest expansion was during the bush years, again no reason to blame Obama for anything.
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I blame both Obama and Clinton for having no plan for the aftermath in Libya. If you are going to blame Bush for having no plan for the post invasion then the same applies to the Obama administration. UN blue berets should have been sent in to deal with the various warlords and protect government buildings, airports, oil refineries and sea ports. They also should have acted post haste to establish a national army by inviting the various factions to join up. None of this was done, it seems unbelievable that the lessons from Iraq were not acted upon and the same mistakes were made.

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Milagro said:
We will see what he does, I will judge him on his actions. It is seemingly impossible to form any US administration without ex-GS employees, which is why it is termed the Great Vampire Squid. Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation have many questions to answer but I don't see many forthcoming.

I have said it many times but I will say it again, there were only two choices, both pretty shitty, but Trump promised an end to the old ways. Now this may well be total bullshit but he might actually mean what he says, I will wait and see.

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Hillary may very well have questions to answer about their foundation but so does trump, about his. In fact trump claimed he's going to shut down his foundation because of all the legal problems regarding self-dealing and how it collected and disbursed funds. He has outright lied about the extent of his philanthropy, and he used foundation money to settle his business lawsuits.
 
Milagro said:
I blame both Obama and Clinton for having no plan for the aftermath in Libya. If you are going to blame Bush for having no plan for the post invasion then the same applies to the Obama administration.

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Sure, I'll blame them because I was against the Libya invasion from the start.
 
christiefan915 said:
Hillary didn't destroy Libya anymore than reagan brought down communism in Russia. They were brought down by what was happening within... correlation doesn't indicate causation. I suggest nobody can bring down a country that's strong within itself. And I don't care about Hillary and some plastic button, a purely symbolic photo op. But I do care about bush claiming to look into Putin's eyes and getting a sense of his soul. That is flat-out ridiculous. Even bush's own intel told him he should have read intelligence briefs more carefully before opening his mouth. Why does bush get a pass where Hillary doesn't? At least there's honesty in the fact that Hillary and Putin despise each other. I would rather have my president be wary about a guy like Putin instead of putting him on a pedestal higher than Obama.

The same people who elected trump as a non-politician spent eight years calling Obama a community organizer so I have no respect for them. trump hasn't even tried to get a handle on how government works. He thinks he can bully people like he does in business but that's not going to happen. We saw the smackdown he got with his try at repealing Obamacare. Now he's blaming it on Ryan, the Dems, anybody but himself. I believe his idea for a rapproachment with Putin will last as long as Putin doesn't openly criticize him for anything.

Re: NATO, Clinton brought in three nations, Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic. bush43 brought in seven, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia. Obama brought in two, Albania and Croatia. So it looks like the biggest expansion was during the bush years, again no reason to blame Obama for anything.
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Hillary Clinton,‘Smart Power’and a Dictator’s Fall New York Times

The president was wary. The
secretary of state was persuasive.
But the ouster of Col. Muammar
el-Qaddafi left Libya a failed
state and a terrorist haven.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?_r=1
Her conviction would be critical in persuading Mr. Obama to join allies in bombing Colonel Qaddafi’s forces. In fact, Mr. Obama’s defense secretary, Robert M. Gates, would later say that in a “51-49” decision, it was Mrs. Clinton’s support that put the ambivalent president over the line.

The consequences would be more far-reaching than anyone imagined, leaving Libya a failed state and a terrorist haven,
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From: Jake Sullivan [mailtc Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:40 PM To: Mills, Cheryl D; Nuland, Victoria
Subject: tick tock on libya (State dept Email released by FOIA request)
it shows S' (Clinton) leadership/ownership/stewardship of this country's libya policy from start to finish

Secretary Clinton's leadership on Libya HRC has been a critical voice on Libya in administration deliberations, at NATO, and in contact group meetings — as well as the public face of the U.S. effort in Libya. She was instrumental in securing the authorization, building the coalition, and tightening the noose around Qadhafi and his regime.
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/23898
++
Bill Clinton stared the expansion -key states -but yes Condi Rice was a BIG RUSSIAPHOBE in the Bush administration
Why does bush get a pass where Hillary doesn't? At least there's honesty in the fact that Hillary and Putin despise each other. I would rather have my president be wary about a guy like Putin instead of putting him on a pedestal higher than Obama.
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Shrub doesn't "get a pass" -although Hilary should have learned from her Iraq vote that interventionism leads to a failed state.
why put Putin on a pedestal or demonize him like the Russiaphobes do?

Just DEAL WITH HIM -realpoliik - to our advantage. That was Trumps idea.
I don't know if it can still happen given the Russiaphobic climate infecting everything..
 
christiefan915 said:
Sure, I'll blame them because I was against the Libya invasion from the start.
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forget Tom..He's a hopeless revisionist. ask yourself instead if we would EVER have put ANY "boots" into Libya ??
Not UN/Not US. none. ever.
That's why we did an air campaign -what Clinton calls "Smart Power"
 
Milagro said:
Well in that case you would have seen another Syria with Gaddafi unleashing a genocide against his own people.

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OMG...first off whatever Qaddafi "would have done" was on him until NATO took control of the war.
Then it became another Iraq - ("you break it you own it"- Powell's -Pottery Barn rule).

Secondly Qaddafi offered safe passage to Eqypt -if the NTC would disarm-they didn't and as legit ruler of Libya he put down the insurrection'

this whole "R2P" crap is just neocon madness - Clinton learned it from Madeline Albright's Kosovo adventures.
except there WAS NO humanitarian crisis in Bengazi- unlike Kosovo
 
evince said:
Dear fucking idiot,

we have democracy we don't need guns to win


take a look at what the republican politicians encountered when they went back to their districts


its why your fucks failed so badly this go around


fuck you very much
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Cry harder; because when the left loses even more seats in Congress, then they did this year, the Democrat party will be forgotten about.

:evilnod:
 
anatta said:
forget Tom..He's a hopeless revisionist. ask yourself instead if we would EVER have put ANY "boots" into Libya ??
Not UN/Not US. none. ever.
That's why we did an air campaign -what Clinton calls "Smart Power"
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Yet there are boots on the ground in the form of special forces. Tell me this then, when the former French colonies like Mali and Chad were in danger, the French sent forces to kick out the Islamists. How come they could do that there?

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anatta said:
OMG...first off whatever Qaddafi "would have done" was on him until NATO took control of the war.
Then it became another Iraq - ("you break it you own it"- Powell's -Pottery Barn rule).

Secondly Qaddafi offered safe passage to Eqypt -if the NTC would disarm-they didn't and as legit ruler of Libya he put down the insurrection'

this whole "R2P" crap is just neocon madness - Clinton learned it from Madeline Albright's Kosovo adventures.
except there WAS NO humanitarian crisis in Bengazi- unlike Kosovo
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Ghaddafi couldn't be trusted, I don't believe he would have honoured his pledge and you are just naive when it comes to him.

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anatta said:
LOL @ "great vampire squid"..he also promised to rollback the regulatory state and return to some semblance of US federalism.
I figured he'd be over his head for awhile,and it was obvious he had no clue about just how dysfunctional partisan politics are.
My 2 main complaint are his idiotic tweets-which lead to his lying, and starting with HC instead of tax reform.
But if we get regulatory reforms, a decent infrastructure package, and an end to PC induced leftist rule..OK.

I give him a "D" so far. But considering the hostile courts, the insane Russiaphobes, and relying on Ryan
that's not unusual.
But he needs to show much improvement -at least his obnoxious tweet have been cut back.
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The liberals constant complaining brings to mind the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf and the more they do it, the more people are going to stop paying attention to them.
 
Milagro said:
Yet there are boots on the ground in the form of special forces. Tell me this then, when the former French colonies like Mali and Chad were in danger, the French sent forces to kick out the Islamists. How come they could do that there?

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1. it wasn't politically possible-whatever the merits. this was post-Iraq. what chance was there we would put any "boots" in? If it wasn't for Hillary's extreme advocacy there wouldn't have even been a buy in other then perhaps the "no fly".

2.the French backed a government force in Mali - unified to at least go after the Islamists.
Post qadaffi there was no functional government. it was pure "militia rule" from the citywide down to the neighborhoods security.

How can you put UN troop s into a chaotic situation where there is no one to partner with?
 
Milagro said:
Ghaddafi couldn't be trusted, I don't believe he would have honoured his pledge and you are just naive when it comes to him.
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He did not go after any civilian populations in any of the cities he won back from the NTC.
Why would he suddenly massacre civilians in Bengazi?

cell phones showed no killing of protestors - the US was getting intelligence from CNN..it was bizarre
 
christiefan915 said:
The demographics of the nation are changing and it's killing you, isn't it.
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There's a simple explanation why demographics are changing. When the blacks and hispanics produce bastard children white people are forced to support at a 73% and 53%, respectively, things change. That doesn't mean the change is good. Just more leeches in society.
 
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