A.M.A. Opposes Public Insurance Plan

[SmarterthanYou]

celebrating the downfall of America already?

 

[ib1yysguy]

ok, no overhead(or very little as you said) and marketing costs will certainly reduce costs of a plan, but i cannot see how there can be no expectation of profit because all of these providers (docs, nurses, techs, equipment) are going to need to be paid and maintained. If the gov is the plan administrator, how are they going to pay these people and maintain equip without making a profit?

I admit, I do like the idea of insuring pre-existing conditions because of my familial circumstances, but i'm still mystified as to any explanation of providing these services at a low cost without everyone being taxed to pay for it.

The healthcare providers make profit, as they do now, but the insurance itself doesn't need to turn a huge profit like private insurance companies need to do to stay in business/expand.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

The healthcare providers make profit, as they do now, but the insurance itself doesn't need to turn a huge profit like private insurance companies need to do to stay in business/expand.

so you're saying that the plan administration will be a completely fixed cost asset and nothing more?

 

[ib1yysguy]

so you're saying that the plan administration will be a completely fixed cost asset and nothing more?

The plan administration? What?

The government doesn't operate to turn a profit on the plan. They only need to charge enough to cover overhead (pretty small) and the cost of medical payments to doctors and care providers. HMOs today need to charge enough to cover overhead (significantly higher too), marketing, payments to doctors and care providers, and on top of all that turn a nice profit to make the shareholders happy.

There's a lot of built-in unnecessary expense.

I haven't seen the official proposal from the Obama administration. All we know is the basics of what they have coming. It'll be a government run health insurance plan that will be cheaper than HMOs for the reasons listed above and best of all be totally optional. If you think it's run poorly, you can take your business elsewhere. If it's not saving you any money, you can do the same.

The only real criticism of this plan (where someone wasn't distorting it and making it something it wasn't) that I'm hearing is that it's too good and it'll be hard for HMOs to compete. Too fucking bad for the HMOs.

 

[belme1201]

Good. I am all for reform, but not this. Where does he think he's going to get the Doctor's and Nurses for this. We have a shortage already. Ooooops, maybe from India?

...and who is it that created the shortage?
The shortage is created by the AMA and those trying to maintain the status quo in order to protect their wealth. Money is the name of their game, it always has been.
Would your GOP politicians now suggest that our medical schools lack applications and are on a frantic hunt for students to fill the empty spaces? I have heard of no shortage of med students or applicants to attend med schools. Is there a med school in the US that does not fill every space it has for incoming students? The lack of GPs is a result of too few graduates produced, so a doctor from India is only too happy to come here. "Follow the money" works among doctors as it does anywhere else. I know of no law entitling a neuro-surgeon to a $2.1 million annual salary. If they increase the amount of space available at med schools the voids will be filled from within.
I also have not heard of nurses schools lacking applicants, have you?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

The plan administration? What?

The government doesn't operate to turn a profit on the plan. They only need to charge enough to cover overhead (pretty small) and the cost of medical payments to doctors and care providers. HMOs today need to charge enough to cover overhead (significantly higher too), marketing, payments to doctors and care providers, and on top of all that turn a nice profit to make the shareholders happy.

There's a lot of built-in unnecessary expense.

how else does a company turn in to a profitable business then? on top of that, IF, a really big if, the government administered plan is not going to require all of those 'overhead' costs, how is that going to foster competition? All I see that doing is running health insurance companies out of business.

I haven't seen the official proposal from the Obama administration. All we know is the basics of what they have coming. It'll be a government run health insurance plan that will be cheaper than HMOs for the reasons listed above and best of all be totally optional. If you think it's run poorly, you can take your business elsewhere. If it's not saving you any money, you can do the same.

I also heard that Rangel was considering a 400 billion dollar cut to medicare and a tax increase of 600 billion to jump start paying the program.

ya know, if the dems wanted to start a violent revolt, they didn't need to waste time talking about this healthcare plan, they could have just started sending out the IRS agents door to door for people to surrender their wallets.

 

[ib1yysguy]

how else does a company turn in to a profitable business then? on top of that, IF, a really big if, the government administered plan is not going to require all of those 'overhead' costs, how is that going to foster competition? All I see that doing is running health insurance companies out of business.


I also heard that Rangel was considering a 400 billion dollar cut to medicare and a tax increase of 600 billion to jump start paying the program.

ya know, if the dems wanted to start a violent revolt, they didn't need to waste time talking about this healthcare plan, they could have just started sending out the IRS agents door to door for people to surrender their wallets.

A lot of the overhead costs the HMOs incur are from all the extra staff they employ to run their business on outdated technology. I think there are something like two people to do paperwork for HMOs for every care giver that deals with patients, or some absurd number like that. HMOs haven't had any reason to change because there's no competition forcing them to cut costs. People pay what they have to pay because they have to pay it or go bankrupt paying for medical bills when they get appendicitis.

The government health plan doesn't need to be a profitable business. They just need to break even. That's the major advantage they have over HMOs, who make a living profiting off your need to seek healthcare. It's not a choice you have, you have to do it when you get ill, so the market doesn't function like the market for something like cars or sofas.

I don't know what we'll see by way of tax increases. The only increases I've heard considered were ones on the super wealthy, which leaves me sitting pretty. I'll never be super wealthy, and neither will you.

 

[ib1yysguy]

By the way, what's the problem with the HMOs going out of business because they can't compete? If they can't do as good a job providing health insurance as the government (as determined by market forces once the government option is available), then what's the argument for keeping them in charge of our health care?

I'm really impressed that you're at least hearing these arguments with an open mind. I never expected that from you.

 

[TuTu Monroe]

...and who is it that created the shortage?
The shortage is created by the AMA and those trying to maintain the status quo in order to protect their wealth. Money is the name of their game, it always has been.
Would your GOP politicians now suggest that our medical schools lack applications and are on a frantic hunt for students to fill the empty spaces? I have heard of no shortage of med students or applicants to attend med schools. Is there a med school in the US that does not fill every space it has for incoming students? The lack of GPs is a result of too few graduates produced, so a doctor from India is only too happy to come here. "Follow the money" works among doctors as it does anywhere else. I know of no law entitling a neuro-surgeon to a $2.1 million annual salary. If they increase the amount of space available at med schools the voids will be filled from within.
I also have not heard of nurses schools lacking applicants, have you?

Obviously, you haven't heard of the illiterate kids coming out of our school system, through no fault of their own. Please don't tell me it started in 2001 as you usually do.

 

[uscitizen]

Yah, and they can afford more Socialism because they don't pay for the huge military that we'll continue to keep even with Obama in office.

Agreed.

 

[uscitizen]

Obviously, you haven't heard of the illiterate kids coming out of our school system, through no fault of their own. Please don't tell me it started in 2001 as you usually do.

The students and their parents deserve quite a bit of blame.
Too many parents view school as a babysitter.

 

[uscitizen]

Seems like I recall the HMO's being touted as our salvation to rising health care costs back during Reagans days.

 

[TuTu Monroe]

That's true and so many teachers are unqualified. We should all be ashamed. It's a national disgrace. Just throwing money at the problem, is not helping anything.

The students and their parents deserve quite a bit of blame.
Too many parents view school as a babysitter.

 

[uscitizen]

That's true and so many teachers are unqualified. We should all be ashamed. It's a national disgrace. Just throwing money at the problem, is not helping anything.

I wonder what the % of parents that even attend PTA type of meetings are.
fixing our education system needs to start at the bottom and go up. We have seen that the top down approach does not work.

btw all 3 of my school age grandchildren are honor roll students. Brag brag.

 

[belme1201]

Obviously, you haven't heard of the illiterate kids coming out of our school system, through no fault of their own. Please don't tell me it started in 2001 as you usually do.

Are you saying our med schools are having trouble filling every space they have available or have reduced the qualifications of applicants? How many new med schools are there and how much have existing schools grown to keep up with population growth or expanding science? The AMA's reason-for-being is to maintain high levels of remuneration for its members, the same reason as any of the labor unions you hate so much. Thus, they lobby for high fee levels supported by limited MD populations or against new controls over the medical profession. They care little about costs to Joe Citizen as long as they get theirs as is the case roday.
There is no connection of the AMA to 2001, however there is a connection in their alignment with the politics of those who support its quest to maintain their position among the wealthiest people in the world.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Are you saying our med schools are having trouble filling every space they have available or have reduced the qualifications of applicants? How many new med schools are there and how much have existing schools grown to keep up with population growth or expanding science? The AMA's reason-for-being is to maintain high levels of remuneration for its members, the same reason as any of the labor unions you hate so much. Thus, they lobby for high fee levels supported by limited MD populations or against new controls over the medical profession. They care little about costs to Joe Citizen as long as they get theirs as is the case roday.
There is no connection of the AMA to 2001, however there is a connection in their alignment with the politics of those who support its quest to maintain their position among the wealthiest people in the world.

Oh yes! Medical doctors are among those greedy rich people who have more than they deserve, while people live in poverty and starve all around us. We see them driving their fancy cars, living in mansions, taking elaborate vacations to Europe, and thumbing their noses at the poor souls who's backs they've become wealthy off of.

Here's what we need to do... turn it all over to the government to regulate, so they can be forced to work at a fraction of what they now charge. To teach them a lesson! To make them see how hard it is for the rest of us. Yes, the medical doctors should have to do what they do at the price we say is fair, or they can just go shovel hamburgers at the local McDonalds. That'll teach 'em alright! I bet they will think twice about getting rich off poor sick people in this country!

It's not like these rich bastards really work for a living, they spend half their time on a golf course, or at the country club, so we need to stick it to them, make them work 12 hrs. a day like the regular guy, and bring home a paltry little paycheck and have to eat mac and cheese for dinner, because that's what normal Americans have to do, and they need to be in touch with normal Americans. Make them sell those big mansions and fancy cars, force them to make their rich bitch wives go get a job too, no need to feel sorry for these greedy rich people, they don't deserve what they have, especially when we have so many with so little, and the sick poor people... can't forget them....

...............Let me know how this plan works out, will ya?

 

[uscitizen]

How did Watermark post under Dixie's id?

 

[belme1201]

Oh yes! Medical doctors are among those greedy rich people who have more than they deserve, while people live in poverty and starve all around us. We see them driving their fancy cars, living in mansions, taking elaborate vacations to Europe, and thumbing their noses at the poor souls who's backs they've become wealthy off of.

Here's what we need to do... turn it all over to the government to regulate, so they can be forced to work at a fraction of what they now charge. To teach them a lesson! To make them see how hard it is for the rest of us. Yes, the medical doctors should have to do what they do at the price we say is fair, or they can just go shovel hamburgers at the local McDonalds. That'll teach 'em alright! I bet they will think twice about getting rich off poor sick people in this country!

It's not like these rich bastards really work for a living, they spend half their time on a golf course, or at the country club, so we need to stick it to them, make them work 12 hrs. a day like the regular guy, and bring home a paltry little paycheck and have to eat mac and cheese for dinner, because that's what normal Americans have to do, and they need to be in touch with normal Americans. Make them sell those big mansions and fancy cars, force them to make their rich bitch wives go get a job too, no need to feel sorry for these greedy rich people, they don't deserve what they have, especially when we have so many with so little, and the sick poor people... can't forget them....

...............Let me know how this plan works out, will ya?

Having read some of your posts in the time I've been here, I'm not surprised
that you failed to see that, unlike you, I said not one derogatory word about doctors. It is the AMA I disdain and the rationing it imposes on us by keeping the medical profession in scarce supply as well as its fight to oppose any regulation at all including the publication of a dangerous doctors list.
I have only one doctor and I am totally satisfied with her. My wife, who is a recovering cancer patient has several doctors and, I believe she is completely satisfied also. All are also female. Also for your information, just the chemo and radiation portion of her treatment amounted to over $200,000 in about 7 months, meds and doctor visits were additional as well as continuing insurance premiums.
That said, I do not consider the profession in the same way as automobile or appliance repair as you might. Whether people live or die, the quality of their lives, financially and healthwise, is dependent on the medical profession and how healthcare is dispensed. Everybody should have acccess to it and never should they have to worry about poverty and bankruptcy as a result of poor health. Quality of care should not be based on the ability to pay.
The AMA defies your free market system by rationing care, it is competition they fear. Do you deny they are nothing more than a union of the doctors they represent? My guess is that you have little good to say about the UAW, AFSCME, or the Teamsters, how is the AMA different?
I am a patient of the Mayo Clinic here, unless I have a Medical emergency the normal wait is 5-6 weeks for an appointment unless there are cancellations for which you sre placed on a waiting list. My wife discovered a small growth, an appointment with a dermatologist was made 10 days ago for an August 8th appointment. Those times are a result of objections by the AMA to increasing the doctor population and thus exacerbating the high cost of healthcare. I have not spoken about the pharmaceutical or insurance fields, YET.
By the way, I think you would be surprised and dismayed at the amount of doctors who feel the way I do about the healthcare system.

 

[TuTu Monroe]

Oh yes! Medical doctors are among those greedy rich people who have more than they deserve, while people live in poverty and starve all around us. We see them driving their fancy cars, living in mansions, taking elaborate vacations to Europe, and thumbing their noses at the poor souls who's backs they've become wealthy off of.

Here's what we need to do... turn it all over to the government to regulate, so they can be forced to work at a fraction of what they now charge. To teach them a lesson! To make them see how hard it is for the rest of us. Yes, the medical doctors should have to do what they do at the price we say is fair, or they can just go shovel hamburgers at the local McDonalds. That'll teach 'em alright! I bet they will think twice about getting rich off poor sick people in this country!

It's not like these rich bastards really work for a living, they spend half their time on a golf course, or at the country club, so we need to stick it to them, make them work 12 hrs. a day like the regular guy, and bring home a paltry little paycheck and have to eat mac and cheese for dinner, because that's what normal Americans have to do, and they need to be in touch with normal Americans. Make them sell those big mansions and fancy cars, force them to make their rich bitch wives go get a job too, no need to feel sorry for these greedy rich people, they don't deserve what they have, especially when we have so many with so little, and the sick poor people... can't forget them....

...............Let me know how this plan works out, will ya?

:lmao::lmao::lmao: Damn you are funny.