A.M.A. Opposes Public Insurance Plan

Watermark said:
You mean they can afford more common sense?

Libertarianism = stupidity
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Libertarianism is the recognition that you take some risk along with freedom. But this is silly off topic inanity.

First tax collection is an unrealistic measure as it doesn't relate to how much we spend at all. Second, the reason we spend as much as we do is because we keep the largest standing military ever. This will add to that cost because we are unlikely to stop spending on the military even with Obama in office.

Again, we need to be realistic when speaking of costs, especially those few of us that are paying any attention.
 
Damocles said:
And yet there are many uncounted who do not get care because that supplemental insurance is too costly and the copayments too high. If, as you would have it, everybody will be covered it will be more expensive still in the US, and we will still live shorter lives until we start eating a bit better. The measure of longer lives does not equate to better care, we have the tops in technology and care that is second to none, we die earlier because we are fat hogs, not because our health care needs improvement.

Anyway, it isn't that I am against (or for) some sort of system based on the French one, it is that we need to be realistic as to the cost. We'll not get it as cheap as the French because we will continue to want the best care with the best technology. Saying it will be as cheap as the French system is unrealistic and would come at a cost that most Americans would be unwilling to pay.
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I see the "fat hogs" all the time, especially in the malls. I see children who are getting just as fat as their parents. We have nutritional programs here to help them, but very few go. They don't seem to care.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
I see the "fat hogs" all the time, especially in the malls. I see children who are getting just as fat as their parents. We have nutritional programs here to help them, but very few go. They don't seem to care.
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90% of obesity can be cured by eating less and exercising more.
 
Damocles said:
And yet there are many uncounted who do not get care because that supplemental insurance is too costly and the copayments too high. If, as you would have it, everybody will be covered it will be more expensive still in the US, and we will still live shorter lives until we start eating a bit better. The measure of longer lives does not equate to better care, we have the tops in technology and care that is second to none, we die earlier because we are fat hogs, not because our health care needs improvement.

Anyway, it isn't that I am against (or for) some sort of system based on the French one, it is that we need to be realistic as to the cost. We'll not get it as cheap as the French because we will continue to want the best care with the best technology. Saying it will be as cheap as the French system is unrealistic and would come at a cost that most Americans would be unwilling to pay.
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I'm one of those. My co-pay is probably affordable, but got to get past the deductible. I've rarely done so. Last year I did, but nearly died. It was a stressful time, with my dad dying and my nephew having been diagnosed with a brain tumor.

Docs helped me throught those times, but here we are in the middle of a new year. I got off the blood pressure meds, through diet and exercise, have kept it off. But the blood pressure has creeped up, and I can't afford to return to docs. So I'm working out more than ever. I figure, I've done my thing, what will be, will be. I'm not in pain and really don't have reasons to hang in if it's not meant to be.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
well, since nobody here can allay any fears of limited medical care, lower costs, not raising my taxes, and then just insulting me when I ask serious questions, I guess I'll just be against it.
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Some of the posters here are covered by government health care in their countries and I haven't heard any one of them complain about how bad it is.
 
Libertarianism exposes people to risks without benefit, and denies them securities without cost. It is a philosophy of "if theory and reality contradict, ignore reality". It is a fantasy ideology like socialism that will never be taken seriously in the real world, besides in the much diluted form of simply being secular conservatism.
 
Watermark said:
Libertarianism exposes people to risks without benefit, and denies them securities without cost.
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I think they call that 'life'. you should try it sometime.

risks can benefit you or cause you problems, that's why they call them risks. all securities cost because you have no 'right' to them. That's why there's no such thing as 'total security'.
 
christiefan915 said:
Okay, in response to your comment about limited medical care and raising taxes, that wasn't a big problem in their systems.
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and now it seems that most of them are having problems and are having to change their health care programs. why should we go down that same road? let's analyze what they did and how it precipitated the downsides of the plans, then plan something different. Everyone is providing the why's and what's, but not the how's and 'just in cases'.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
and now it seems that most of them are having problems and are having to change their health care programs. why should we go down that same road? let's analyze what they did and how it precipitated the downsides of the plans, then plan something different. Everyone is providing the why's and what's, but not the how's and 'just in cases'.
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The only thing that I know once it starts there will be no going back. There is nothing more infinite than a government program. No matter if it works or not.
 
Damocles said:
The only thing that I know once it starts there will be no going back. There is nothing more infinite than a government program. No matter if it works or not.
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for sure, which is why they need to get it right the first time. they won't, but that won't stop them from doing it anyway. almost all federal programs have failed in one way or another.
 
Damocles said:
The only thing that I know once it starts there will be no going back. There is nothing more infinite than a government program. No matter if it works or not.
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There will be no 'going back', on the other hand, there will be no preventing it from happening, regardless of the articles trying to say that the deficit will. It's going to happen and it's not going to be pretty.
 
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