A.M.A. Opposes Public Insurance Plan

cawacko said:
Obama's a smart man, he's no dummy. So he's not out there calling for single payer because even he knows that won't fly politically now. So yes he is pushing the system in that direction. And liberals who want single payer for the most part are on board because they know this is the best political way to achieve it.
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I'm on board 'cause it's a great idea. And if it works, there will be no reason to oppose single payer.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
Good. I am all for reform, but not this. Where does he think he's going to get the Doctor's and Nurses for this. We have a shortage already. Ooooops, maybe from India?
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Damn TuTu, sometimes you're not to bright. Why, just exactly, do you think there's a shortage of Dr's and Nurses?
 
Mottleydude said:
Damn TuTu, sometimes you're not to bright. Why, just exactly, do you think there's a shortage of Dr's and Nurses?
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Probably because of liability risks. Why take a chance some bozo and their ambulance-chasing lawyer will take everything you own, when you can teach and do lectures and make the same kind of money? Or maybe it's the cost of malpractice insurance, by the time you pay that and your staff, etc... it's more lucrative to use your medical training in another way.

TuTu is right, as soon as this shit hits the fan, you are going to see a mass exodus of the remaining doctors we have. In the end, the quality of American health care is going to decline dramatically. Of course, we will owe it all to pinhead liberals, who couldn't be satisfied until we turned it into the DMV!
 
ib1yysguy said:
I'll never understand the objection to the government plan OPTION. If their objection is that health insurance companies wont be able to compete, they're basically saying that the government option is too good and it's unfair to the people who want to gouge us.
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This "compete" ruse by Obama is bullshit. I'm not surprised you fell for it. Its impossible to compete with something that sets the rules, exempts itself from the rules and subsidizes itself. *shrug*
 
Southern Man said:
This "compete" ruse by Obama is bullshit. I'm not surprised you fell for it. Its impossible to compete with something that sets the rules, exempts itself from the rules and subsidizes itself. *shrug*
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And this is true with any industry the government enters into.

There is no real competition when one company has the power of government behind it.

We are headed toward state controlled monopoly "capitalism" aka fascism.
 
AssHatZombie said:
And this is true with any industry the government enters into.

There is no real competition when one company has the power of government behind it.

We are headed toward state controlled monopoly "capitalism" aka fascism.
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Sure this is just a way to back-door themselves in. It easy to tell what a Liberal's agenda is; just take what they say publicly and it will be the opposite. For example: "Fairness Doctrine"; "Affirmative Action"; "Competing Insurance Plan". *shrug*
 
ib1yysguy said:
I'll never understand the objection to the government plan OPTION. If their objection is that health insurance companies wont be able to compete, they're basically saying that the government option is too good and it's unfair to the people who want to gouge us.
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you'll never undestand because you don't want to. The 'government option' is going to cost the same, or more, than private insurers do now. It's going to tax us to pay for the program, then cost us again to 'buy in' to the option, then we'll still have to pay the deductibles when we use it.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you'll never undestand because you don't want to. The 'government option' is going to cost the same, or more, than private insurers do now. It's going to tax us to pay for the program, then cost us again to 'buy in' to the option, then we'll still have to pay the deductibles when we use it.
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It's actually going to cost significantly less. Medicare has like a 2 percent overhead, where your insurance company has something on the order of 8-10 percent in overhead costs. Also, private health care spends about 30 percent of what you pay on marketing, which the government will not have to spend a dime. Right there, without even trying to make the actual medical services cost less, they're saving 38 percent over the private plans. Then they also have the ability to negotiate drug prices with pharma companies, which means they can lower costs even more.

You pay deductibles either way, so that's a wash. If taxes do go up for it, it wont be on me or anyone I know.

It's going to be significantly cheaper. You will deny this fact until you're blue in the face, but it wont change reality.
 
Dixie said:
Probably because of liability risks. Why take a chance some bozo and their ambulance-chasing lawyer will take everything you own, when you can teach and do lectures and make the same kind of money? Or maybe it's the cost of malpractice insurance, by the time you pay that and your staff, etc... it's more lucrative to use your medical training in another way.

TuTu is right, as soon as this shit hits the fan, you are going to see a mass exodus of the remaining doctors we have. In the end, the quality of American health care is going to decline dramatically. Of course, we will owe it all to pinhead liberals, who couldn't be satisfied until we turned it into the DMV!
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Well I can see you know as much about the medical dodge as you do about evolution. That's not even remotely close as to why there's a shortage of Doctors and Nurses. Try again.
 
ib1yysguy said:
It's actually going to cost significantly less. Medicare has like a 2 percent overhead, where your insurance company has something on the order of 8-10 percent in overhead costs. Also, private health care spends about 30 percent of what you pay on marketing, which the government will not have to spend a dime. Right there, without even trying to make the actual medical services cost less, they're saving 38 percent over the private plans. Then they also have the ability to negotiate drug prices with pharma companies, which means they can lower costs even more.

You pay deductibles either way, so that's a wash. If taxes do go up for it, it wont be on me or anyone I know.

It's going to be significantly cheaper. You will deny this fact until you're blue in the face, but it wont change reality.
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To me, the only way the government is going to make health care cheaper is by rationing services and that's what will happen. IMO, some folks view this government run health care as a chance to get all the help and treatment they need, when they need it and have the costs covered by someone other than themselves. That would be great if the system would work that way. It won't though. Costs will explode and government will again be forced to cut services to control them.
 
ib1yysguy said:
You will deny this fact until you're blue in the face, but it wont change reality.
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health care management is something I do have some knowledge in due to family working in the business, however, i'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything about it, so if you can legitimately show me the benefits, I can accept it.

ib1yysguy said:
It's actually going to cost significantly less. Medicare has like a 2 percent overhead, where your insurance company has something on the order of 8-10 percent in overhead costs. Also, private health care spends about 30 percent of what you pay on marketing, which the government will not have to spend a dime. Right there, without even trying to make the actual medical services cost less, they're saving 38 percent over the private plans. Then they also have the ability to negotiate drug prices with pharma companies, which means they can lower costs even more.
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alright, i've listened to Obama speak on how they want to improve the industry by making it competitive, so show me how the government is going to reduce costs without turning all of the health care industry in to something like Medicare. My experience with Medicare puts it about two degrees above VA care right now and that's not very high.

ib1yysguy said:
You pay deductibles either way, so that's a wash. If taxes do go up for it, it wont be on me or anyone I know.
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who's going to pay for it then and how will it get financed?
 
cawacko said:
To me, the only way the government is going to make health care cheaper is by rationing services and that's what will happen. IMO, some folks view this government run health care as a chance to get all the help and treatment they need, when they need it and have the costs covered by someone other than themselves. That would be great if the system would work that way. It won't though. Costs will explode and government will again be forced to cut services to control them.
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This is what I currently see that is going to happen. It will still pass though because of 40 million uninsured Americans will get coverage of some kind and that is all it will take. the damage that comes later will then be too late to undo anything.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
health care management is something I do have some knowledge in due to family working in the business, however, i'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything about it, so if you can legitimately show me the benefits, I can accept it.

alright, i've listened to Obama speak on how they want to improve the industry by making it competitive, so show me how the government is going to reduce costs without turning all of the health care industry in to something like Medicare. My experience with Medicare puts it about two degrees above VA care right now and that's not very high.

who's going to pay for it then and how will it get financed?
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You pay by buying a plan like you would through a private insurer. The lower overhead (believe it or not, but some government programs have very efficient and very low overheads, like social security and medicare) and the fact that there is 0 dollars spent on marketing are the most immediate cost benefits that I'm aware of. Also, they don't need to turn 20 percent profit off you either. They dont need to make any profit, which is another big savings.

Some of that savings is eaten away by the fact that the government will insure anyone who wants to pay for the policy, even people with preexisting conditions which pass the cost of their care onto everyone else. However, it's really great that there will be an option for those people now instead of getting denied coverage like they would from private insurers today or have to pay premiums that make it basically cost prohibitive.
 
The best part - if it doesn't work we'll find out. If it winds up being too expensive and people get "rationed" their health care, people can just quit and buy a regular policy and life goes on. If the experiment fails, then it fails. I predict it'll be a huge success. Once people see how well it can actually work, you'll find very little reason to stay with private insurance.
 
The public plan will force the private plans to innovate and break up their cartel of bad service or be eliminated and replaced by newer companies that are willing to innovate.
 
cawacko said:
To me, the only way the government is going to make health care cheaper is by rationing services and that's what will happen. IMO, some folks view this government run health care as a chance to get all the help and treatment they need, when they need it and have the costs covered by someone other than themselves. That would be great if the system would work that way. It won't though. Costs will explode and government will again be forced to cut services to control them.
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They'll create committees called something like, "Committee for Needed Health Care" (Doublespeak here), its job will be to find out what is necessary and stop paying for what is not, in essence it will be the rationing board of the Department of Medicine.
 
A reformation of the system that rewards hospitals and care providers for making their service over complicated and ordering unnecessary tests needs to be reformed if you want costs go to down.
 
Damocles said:
They'll create committees called something like, "Committee for Needed Health Care" (Doublespeak here), its job will be to find out what is necessary and stop paying for what is not, in essence it will be the rationing board of the Department of Medicine.
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Fear mongering...
 
Damocles said:
They'll create committees called something like, "Committee for Needed Health Care" (Doublespeak here), its job will be to find out what is necessary and stop paying for what is not, in essence it will be the rationing board of the Department of Medicine.
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Can you please tell me how the governments of Germany and France avoid rationing? Just enlighten me? BTW, their healthcare system costs LESS. Costs did not exploded, even though there is no actual rationing. And the waiting times in these systems are SHORTER than estimated American waiting times (although, we are essentially comparing them to an unknown, since American hospitals refuse to publish the information).
 
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