A great man died

Rune said:
Sounds a lot like Dubya
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Man we are going to have a knock down raging agreement here. That fucker destroyed the Constitution.
I still have a sticker on my big rollaway toolbox that has a picture of W and below it it says Be glad Jesus loves you because we all think your an asshole.
 
blackascoal said:
There is no way to get around the tremendous benefits to the quality of life that Castro brought to the Cuban people .. and you've proven that because you've not offered one scintilla of evidence that he didn't .. AND YOU CAN'T.
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There you are! I was wondering if you'd show up. Glad your here.
Well if Castro and the Communist hadn't outlawed access to the internet for their people....maybe we could have some Cubans living there in our discussion. But alas......
 
Milagro said:
That was mostly around 1994 when Castro imposed severe restrictions on travel from Cuba. BAC does seem to have a love of despots, or at least left wing ones, Gaddafi, Mugabe and maybe even Pol Pot for all I know.
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Yet there are still people leaving illegally and coming to the United States obtaining refugee status (so long as they get to shore before they are caught). There is that simple reality that simply devastates every argument. The idea that there are "millions" in Cuba that just love them some Castro is absurd, when you are afraid that the government will simply kill you for speaking out, often you don't speak out.
 
The Only Sarge said:
Well be careful of " American Post" as they have a very narrow view of the world. Most have never lived nor worked, mingled with nor experienced any of the culture, politics they advocate. To say your a Socialist or Communist and have never lived in those environments is nothing more than Google cut and paste politics. One has no real experience with it.They merely regurgitate the spin without any first hand experience.
You have a unique view of history.
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Back in the early 90s I worked for a company that did a lot of business in Eastern Europe. It was fascinating to see former communist countries throw off their shackles and start to regenerate.
The Only Sarge said:
Your right. But I'll tell you it was intense. We had a manager in one of our plants there that was from a tribe up north. We literally had to get him out with body guards.
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Rune said:
Sounds a lot like Dubya
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True, I said that often. W had a chance to do something great and squandered it, Castro had a chance to make Cuba awesome and didn't just squander it, he stomped all over it deliberately and with malice.
 
Milagro said:
Back in the early 90s I worked for a company that did a lot of business in Eastern Europe. It was fascinating to see former communist countries throw off their shackles and start to regenerate.



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I was in Nicaragua a week after the over throw. I was in Panama days after the invasion. I was in Russia less than a year after the fall of the iron curtain. Yes it is humbling to see people free and crying literally in the streets. No more fear of the "police" dragging you off and shooting you in the head. It was humbling.
 
Damocles said:
True, I said that often. W had a chance to do something great and squandered it, Castro had a chance to make Cuba awesome and didn't just squander it, he stomped all over it deliberately and with malice.
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Power is a drug many cannot control. One may start out with great ideas for his/her fellow man. That quickly is lost to greed and power. Then the oppression comes.
 
Damocles said:
Yes, as I said Batista was bad, he suspended the constitution and was corrupt to the core; however trading for more brutality is not really much of a trade. Batista was bad, but not so bad that people would literally disassemble their car to make a makeshift raft to try to get to the United States. People like BAC can pretend that the "revolution" was all rainbows and ice cream but the reality is, people quite literally drove to the beach and disassembled their car to make rafts that barely floated to cross the ocean to get away from Castro.
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The Embargo caused a lot of this if we are going to assess blame. Batista wasn't just "brutal" -he kept the populace poor with his oligarch rule .

Which is not to make any excuses for Castro's excesses. I think the US and Castro could have long ago settled their differences.
Amazingly that idiotic Embargo lives on to this day.
 
Rune said:
Oh but the English have clean hands...?
Hypocrite
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Did I say that? However the Welsh were still using slaves to extract copper in Cuba when it was illegal throughout the British Empire. I still maintain that compared to all other empires the British was the most benign. The French, German, Dutch, Austro-Hungarian, Belgian, Ottoman, Spanish and Portuguese empires were far harsher and malign.

Ask yourself this question, how many democracies did any of those leave behind? I am going with none, can you do better?

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The Only Sarge said:
There you are! I was wondering if you'd show up. Glad your here.
Well if Castro and the Communist hadn't outlawed access to the internet for their people....maybe we could have some Cubans living there in our discussion. But alas......
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Thank you.

Cuba has been under attack by the US for decades. Castro knows the tactics of the CIA and those who seek his and his reforms destruction. He took measures, sometimes extreme, to protect his life and the undeniable advances Cuba has made. Whether we agree with those measures is hardly the point given that we are the aggressor.

The US could have taken an entirely different tact on normalizing relationships with Cuba, but we failed to do that .. opting for aggression and bluster instead .. that never worked.

We don't give a fuck about the Cuban people .. get real. ALL this nation cares about is profit in our own coffers.
 
And Texas was ruled by the Spanish, French, Confederacy, Mexico, Republic of Texas and United States. We are bad fucked up confused :)
 
blackascoal said:
Thank you.

Cuba has been under attack by the US for decades. Castro knows the tactics of the CIA and those who seek his and his reforms destruction. He took measures, sometimes extreme, to protect his life and the undeniable advances Cuba has made. Whether we agree with those measures is hardly the point given that we are the aggressor.

The US could have taken an entirely different tact on normalizing relationships with Cuba, but we failed to do that .. opting for aggression and bluster instead .. that never worked.

We don't give a fuck about the Cuban people .. get real. ALL this nation cares about is profit in our own coffers.
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I thought about you the other day. I was flipping around the old tv channels and stopped on this Kardashean (sp?) bullshit show. They were going to Cuba to a fashion show. So that caught my attention. Spoiled rotten little rich kids getting their asses kissed in this hotel and bitching about how "backwards" everything was and no internet blah blah blah. I just hope and pray the Cuban people strive to grow their technology/medical et al industries and dont fall back into a servant industry. It will all depend on investments and which type of investments are solicited from Cuba. Thoughts?
 
blackascoal said:
Thank you.

Cuba has been under attack by the US for decades. Castro knows the tactics of the CIA and those who seek his and his reforms destruction. He took measures, sometimes extreme, to protect his life and the undeniable advances Cuba has made. Whether we agree with those measures is hardly the point given that we are the aggressor.

The US could have taken an entirely different tact on normalizing relationships with Cuba, but we failed to do that .. opting for aggression and bluster instead .. that never worked.

We don't give a fuck about the Cuban people .. get real. ALL this nation cares about is profit in our own coffers.
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I agree with this.
US paranoia kept the Embargo going far too long -to this day it's still on. Cuba was a handy foil for US politicians to bash.
If we had reached out..long after JFK but before Obama..we could have settled our differences.
I'm not happy about Castro's political prisoners -but we deal with China/Russia/Iran (etc) who do far worse.

None of that was any reason to punish Cuba long after it served any real purpose.
 
anatta said:
I agree with this.
US paranoia kept the Embargo going far too long -to this day it's still on. Cuba was a handy foil for US politicians to bash.
If we had reached out..long after JFK but before Obama..we could have settled our differences.
I'm not happy about Castro's political prisoners -but we deal with China/Russia/Iran (etc) who do far worse.

None of that was any reason to punish Cuba long after it served any real purpose.
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Go to Brazil and look at all the kids in prison for being homeless. The list of human suffering from oppressive regimes is mind boggling.
 
#174
May I add,
I think the U.S. made itself look more cowardly by bullying tiny "communist" Cuba, while maintaining a much more benevolent and cooperative approach with "communist" China.

At long last, the range between those extremes has been partially reduced. So now we don't look quite so bad, in my opinion.
 
anatta said:
I agree with this.
US paranoia kept the Embargo going far too long -to this day it's still on. Cuba was a handy foil for US politicians to bash.
If we had reached out..long after JFK but before Obama..we could have settled our differences.
I'm not happy about Castro's political prisoners -but we deal with China/Russia/Iran (etc) who do far worse.

None of that was any reason to punish Cuba long after it served any real purpose.
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Castro wanted to join the Falkand's War apparently. He planned to use some Soviet era submarines to attack the British fleet. He was turned down by Galtieri. It is amazing to think that Castro would go to the aid of a right wing fascist but there it is!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...er-falklands-war-wanted-to-bomb-british-ships

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Milagro said:
Did I say that? However the Welsh were still using slaves to extract copper in Cuba when it was illegal throughout the British Empire. I still maintain that compared to all other empires the British was the most benign. The French, German, Dutch, Austro-Hungarian, Belgian, Ottoman, Spanish and Portuguese empires were far harsher and malign.

Ask yourself this question, how many democracies did any of those leave behind? I am going with none, can you do better?

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India is only a success in your mind
 
anatta said:
The Embargo caused a lot of this if we are going to assess blame. Batista wasn't just "brutal" -he kept the populace poor with his oligarch rule .

Which is not to make any excuses for Castro's excesses. I think the US and Castro could have long ago settled their differences.
Amazingly that idiotic Embargo lives on to this day.
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True
 
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