A Civil Discussion: Evolution, Science, Theology, Atheism, Climate

[Darth Omar]

You mean use tools?

If you put busting a coconut with a rock on par with sending a rocket to the moon, I don’t see much point in discussing it farther.

 

[Truth Detector]

The IQ level of this thread has descended to the level of lunacy. Yep; in leftist moron land, animals are no different than man.

Morons.

 

[CFM]

That makes no sense what so ever. Facts are facts. Just because you discover new facts doesn’t mean other facts are no longer facts. That’s silly.

If you discover new "facts" and it changes what the old "facts" were supporting, one is replacing the other. Facts are indisputable.

 

[Darth Omar]

If you were a dolphin, and you were smarter than a Trump supporter - what decisions would you make to "get out of the ocean" and build stuff?

You’re supposing a dolphin could even conceive of getting out of the ocean. That’s sheer speculation.

What do you suppose dolphins think of trees and antelope lol?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Darth,

Do whales practice or debate politics lol?

Probably. We know that dolphins certainly do.

Our ability to manipulate the environment exceeds anything done by any other species by many magnitudes.

Wrong. Stromatolites changed the atmosphere, caused climate change, and as a result nearly wiped themselves out after pretty much covering the entire planet.

Even if chimps had the ability to talk they lack the brain capacity to ‘think of what to say’. You have to be able to conceptualize and think in abstract terms to communicate verbally.

Have you heard of the African Grey parrot with the vocabulary and recognition, which announces it wants to go to the shoulder of it's human handlers? And knows that that means? And this is an idea which occurred to the parrot. Not a response to a question.

We are unique. It’s simply a fact. And again, I’m astounded I have to explain it over and over again.

Why does it matter that humans are unique?

Why does one particular human refuse to get it that 'being unique' does not separate us from other animals? Every species is unique in some way.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

You’re supposing a dolphin could even conceive of getting out of the ocean. That’s sheer speculation.

What do you suppose dolphins think of trees and antelope lol?

To them, getting out of the ocean probably makes as much sense as if you decided to move into the ocean.

You keep narrowing your criteria to things that are very specific to humans. Dolphins express their intelligence & creativity in different ways - that doesn't make them less intelligent, or that much less intelligent. Most of the accomplishments you're referring to for humans (as well as Stretch's Pizza Hut criteria) only happened in the last few hundred years or so.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Mott,

Indeed they do. Many cetaceans have brain to body mass ratios comparable to or larger than humans. They have complex communication abilities as sophisticated as humans and in some respects superior and the also show a mastery of their environment that humans can’t compete in and social structures every bit as complex as humans including abstract concepts like family and heirarchy. The same is true of certain avian species, particularly the parotidae, who have comparable intelligence, adaptability, mastery of environment, communication skills, social structures, etc,.

The only thing where humans stand apart from other animals is the extent to which we use tools.

That’s not including plants either. Go visit a rain forest or the taiga forest and tell me humans are the dominant life forms there. You’ll be humbled real quick in your relative insignificance.

Wasn't it whales who taught us how to listen for Russian submarines?

 

[Darth Omar]

Hello Darth,



Probably. We know that dolphins certainly do.



Wrong. Stromatolites changed the atmosphere, caused climate change, and as a result nearly wiped themselves out after pretty much covering the entire planet.



Have you heard of the African Grey parrot with the vocabulary and recognition, which announces it wants to go to the shoulder of it's human handlers? And knows that that means? And this is an idea which occurred to the parrot. Not a response to a question.



Why does one particular human refuse to get it that 'being unique' does not separate us from other animals? Every species is unique in some way.

You can’t teach many animals tricks. Nothing new about that, Pavlov even put his name to the phenomenon.

Every species is unique in some way—or they wouldn’t be a species lol. So that’s a bit of a trite observation.

Suppose aliens did stumble upon our planet and they concluded it was inhabited—but not just by animals.

Would there be something wrong with their conclusion that there was something distinct about us?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Leon

Although their works more closely resemble Jackson Pollock's,
Picasso would probably have disagreed with you.

I have to wonder if humans are smarter than animals when you can see a parking spot which is absolutely covered with bird droppings, look up, and see a tree or other structure which supports an active nest, and then park there anyway.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

You can’t teach many animals tricks. Nothing new about that, Pavlov even put his name to the phenomenon.

Every species is unique in some way—or they wouldn’t be a species lol. So that’s a bit of a trite observation.

Suppose aliens did stumble upon our planet and they concluded it was inhabited—but not just by animals.

Would there be something wrong with their conclusion that there was something distinct about us?

Reminds me of the Star Trek movie where the aliens didn't want to communicate w/ humans at all, but communicated w/ the whales.

Obviously fiction, but plausible. We don't know what criteria aliens would have for intelligence. I doubt it would be Pizza Huts.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Darth,

Mott, if I didn’t know any better I’d think you’re trying to baffle me with bullshit lol.

Look, I’m as humbled by nature as anyone but when whales develop 4G broadband networks get back with me.

Why do pods of whales beach themselves?

Did you know that Whales had long distance communication before humans did?

 

[PoliTalker]

You’re equating mastery of an environment with dominance.

Humans haven’t dominated the ocean only because we haven’t gotten around to doing it. In principle, there’s no reason why we can’t build habitable underwater environments—in fact, that’s not even a novel idea.

Whales? They’re highly intelligent—by animal standards lol. Will whales every dominant the land? Never, is an extremely safe bet.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

What time period did you have in mind?

 

[Darth Omar]

Reminds me of the Star Trek movie where the aliens didn't want to communicate w/ humans at all, but communicated w/ the whales.

Obviously fiction, but plausible. We don't know what criteria aliens would have for intelligence. I doubt it would be Pizza Huts.

I guess the aliens would have no appreciation for art, music, literature, architecture, culture, history—what we ourselves have discovered about science.

Though I suppose the aliens could be fascinated by zoology lol.

Btw, why aren’t humans studied under zoology? How did we rate our own category of study in anthropology?

We’re just animals, right?

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

I guess the aliens would have no appreciation for art, music, literature, architecture, culture, history—what we ourselves have discovered about science.

Though I suppose the aliens could be fascinated by zoology lol.

Btw, why aren’t humans studied under zoology? How did we rate our own category of study in anthropology?

We’re just animals, right?

For starters, zoology and anthropology are human pursuits - so, you're judging other mammals in the context of the human perspective.

We are just animals; again, sorry about that.

And why do you keep insinuating that dolphins and whales (in particular) have no art, music, culture or history?

 

[anatta]

I guess the aliens would have no appreciation for art, music, literature, architecture, culture, history—what we ourselves have discovered about science.

Though I suppose the aliens could be fascinated by zoology lol.

Btw, why aren’t humans studied under zoology? How did we rate our own category of study in anthropology?

We’re just animals, right?

we are NOT.
There is vast more differences between humans and say our closest relatives (chimps) then chimps and simple organisms.
we shape our civilizations rather then be a slave to our enviornment

 

[Mott the Hoople]

If you put busting a coconut with a rock on par with sending a rocket to the moon, I don’t see much point in discussing it farther.

That's you're analogy not mine. I'm just beating you over the head with the point that the only thing that makes humans distinct from other animals is the extent to which we use tools. ThThThThat's it folks!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

If you discover new "facts" and it changes what the old "facts" were supporting, one is replacing the other. Facts are indisputable.

But discovering new facts doesn't change existing facts. That's cra-cra talk.

 

[anatta]

For starters, zoology and anthropology are human pursuits - so, you're judging other mammals in the context of the human perspective.

We are just animals; again, sorry about that.

And why do you keep insinuating that dolphins and whales (in particular) have no art, music, culture or history?

whale culture?
They have large brains and are capable of reasoning in terms of their enviornment, but cannot produce art/culture

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Hello Mott,



Wasn't it whales who taught us how to listen for Russian submarines?

No. It was yellow submarines.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

whale culture?
They have large brains and are capable of reasoning in terms of their enviornment, but cannot produce art/culture

Absolutely Whales have culture. All social animals have culture. Now granted Whales do have extremely conservative culture and are not the lest bit progressive which could mean that natural selection has marked them for extinction but hey...who knows?