A Civil Discussion: Evolution, Science, Theology, Atheism, Climate

[Cancel 2020.1]

Oh, how about hominid evolution?

I think if humans evolved from more primitive ancestors the fossil record would be more definitive.

It's pretty definitive, for all of the talk of a "missing link." We have very detailed records of adaptations & migrations, and of our journey from the treetops to the savannahs and beyond. It's conclusive.

I don't really understand why anyone would reject that evidence, as we also have it for most other species. The ONLY thing that people want to believe in that case is that we're somehow "special," and separate from the rest of the animal kingdom. That, to me, is a pretty antiquated notion, and pretty arrogant. We're just another mammal.

 

[Nordberg]

I have an advantage in that I don’t need evolution to be true to support my worldview. Conversely, my faith in God isn’t predicated on whether or not the universe was created in six literal days.

It’s liberating lol.

I also believe the gaps in knowledge are getting bigger instead of smaller. Darwin, for example, could not conceive of the complexity of living organisms.

Actually you are noting Darwin was correct about evolution but science in the 1850s did not know the mechanism. Science is proving Darwin and evolution, not tearing it down,

 

[CharacterAssassin]

I don't really know why you're trying to engage in a discussion on evolution when you don't understand the basics of it.

She's admitted here several times to being a lifelong meth addict.

Absolutely no clue and yet she still chimes in.

Sad, really.

 

[PoliTalker]

Oh, how about hominid evolution?

I think if humans evolved from more primitive ancestors the fossil record would be more definitive.

I don't think there is any rule or force which says we will ever have access to fossils for every past species. We get little bits of information without a lot of overlap. That's why it is such a mystery. The gaps are not filled in. We have hints, but no definitive common ancestor with apes. Just a few years ago there was a discovery in South African cave. Access was so limited a call went out for the thinnest volunteers wiling to squeeze past a tight restriction to get to the bones. They did, and turned up remains that indicated a hominin (Homo naledi) which had ape-like skulls, but with human-like hands and feet. And there was no other apparent way for the bones to be there except the beings must have had a burial ritual where they decided to drag them there.

Did ape-like Homo Naledi bury their dead out of ritual?

 

[Celticguy]

They evolved to their ideal point. Rightys seem to have avoided it too.

And crocodiles didnt ?

 

[NOVA]

I believe in all of it - god (for lack of a better word), the big bang, abiogenesis and evolution.

I think the Bible is a very cool historical document, but see it in the context it was written; by very superstitious people, at a time when scientific explanations for many things were limited or non-existent.

Well, three out of four........the big bang ?.....I can't really grasp that notion, unless you think the big bang was creation itself....anything is possible.....
if not, what the hell was the big bang before it went bang....nothing ?
Nothing went bang and become something ?...... And thats the mystery....
I don't think science explains the big bang theory at all....just because we see the universe as expanding isn't enough....and there are different theory's even about that phenomena....
are we seeing what we think we're seeing or is that in itself just an illusion because of our limited perspective.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

The Origin of the Species lol.

I’m good with speciation but I struggle with some aspects of common descent [particularly the ape-like to man jump] and I have my doubts about the creative power of natural selection.

There is plenty of room for God in it unless one takes a strict literalist view on the early chapters of Genesis.

Certainly...it just isn't science or a question science has anything to say about.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

So much for civil discourse ehh Turd?

 

[Darth Omar]

It's pretty definitive, for all of the talk of a "missing link." We have very detailed records of adaptations & migrations, and of our journey from the treetops to the savannahs and beyond. It's conclusive.

I don't really understand why anyone would reject that evidence, as we also have it for most other species. The ONLY thing that people want to believe in that case is that we're somehow "special," and separate from the rest of the animal kingdom. That, to me, is a pretty antiquated notion, and pretty arrogant. We're just another mammal.

We ARE special.

No other species even approaches man on several levels. There isn’t even a close second. The fossil record doesn’t adequately reflect it.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

We ARE special.

No other species even approaches man on several levels. There isn’t even a close second. The fossil record doesn’t adequately reflect it.

That's old school. We're not. Other species reason; other species use tools, nurture their young, etc.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

Certainly...it just isn't science or a question science has anything to say about.

Why not? This is why I don't like the word "god." It really implies something supernatural, or outside of scientific consideration.

What if "god" is just a being from a previous universe that evolved to the point of being able to create without limitation? Theoretically, we'd have the ability to prove that scientifically if we had access to all knowledge...no?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Because their ancestors didn't have the same environmental inputs which in turn led to the differing mutation of the branching species. The monkeys and apes remained in their habitat while the mutating species filled niches in other environments. The monkeys and apes experienced less displacement by mutations because they were already adapted well to their environment.

Not really. That's making an assumption that over the vast expanse of their time of existence that these primates have not evolved when they in fact have. Constantly. The argument you made does apply to explaining how collateral branches arise and what the forces involved are but all species are constantly evolving at all times. One only has to look at their own children to see irrefutable evidence of that fact.

 

[Timshel]

The Origin of the Species lol.

I’m good with speciation but I struggle with some aspects of common descent [particularly the ape-like to man jump] and I have my doubts about the creative power of natural selection.

There is plenty of room for God in it unless one takes a strict literalist view on the early chapters of Genesis.

We are still so ape like that we are, in fact, still apes. Ape is not a species but a group of species which includes humans. What you have said above is like saying we evolved from a primate like species, mammal like species, vertebrate like species, animal like species. You and your parents were still all of those things, not pimple he has no spine.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Sorry to burst your bubble.

no other species has bubbles or can burst them......

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Evolution is a undeniable fact. We have observed changes in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations. That is direct scientific evidence.

The theory of evolution explains how evolution via natural selection has created diversity.

Well nothing is undeniable. One can deny anything. That doesn't make them right though. LOL

It would be more correct to say that the facts of evolutionary theory are easily observable and not really disputed by science.

 

[Darth Omar]

Actually you are noting Darwin was correct about evolution but science in the 1850s did not know the mechanism. Science is proving Darwin and evolution, not tearing it down,

Darwin presupposed the existence of the first cell—which he supposed to be an amorphous blob of protoplasm.

It’s safe to say Darwin’s presupposition was off just a tad lol.

And he based his theory, at least in part, on animal breeding which is a form of artificial selection. But Darwin’s theory has been left with much more explaining to do, as time and technology progressed.

Whether it’s currently adequate, is a matter of opinion.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

What you describe is known as adaptation. Not evolution. Besides, don't evolutionists claim that evolution happens too slowly to observe it happening? Adaptation is the expression of genetic traits that already exist in DNA. Also, adaptations can be reversed. Evolution cannot. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that we evolved from apes. Evolution is a fairy tale for grown-ups.

Well let me put it like this. Not a single thing you said is correct, supported by science or believed by science and pretty well demonstrates that you don't know what science is. I'm not saying that as a personal attack, I'm just observing that your beliefs are something other than science.

 

[Cypress]

If man is causing global warming, as the quacks claim, why did the planet warm and freeze several times before man ever invented the gasoline combustible engine?

Climate does not change for no reason at all.

Climate changes result from whatever forcings are in effect at the time - volcanoes, variations in solar activity, Milakovitch cycles and other periodic variations in the Earth's orbit, et al.

The current rapid warming trend is being largely caused by human activities and emissions of GHGs, and this is known with a very high degree of scientific confidence.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Reject away but the vast majority if scientists are ATHEISTS. Religion cannot survive the least bit of intellectual scrutiny. however some people accept childhood religious training better than others, regardless of what profession they follow. Science and logic are incompatible with religion. But for some, that cannot overcome the propaganda fed to them as children.

I'm a scientist and a christian. How do you reconcile that? What you present is an utterly false dichotomy which I personally, as both someone educated in science and as a christian reject.They are not mutually incompatible belief systems.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Darth,

We ARE special.

No other species even approaches man on several levels. There isn’t even a close second. The fossil record doesn’t adequately reflect it.

Wrong. We spend most of our waking time tending to our needs, providing, earning, hygiene, eating and food prep. Dolphins only spend 15% of their waking time doing these things. All the rest of their time is 'free time,' usually used for their amusement and learning.

AI may get us there in the future, but right now we have some catching up to do in that category.