A beginner's guide to being an atheist, by Richard Dawkins

Cypress said:
I think most atheists are not actually atheists. When you press them hard enough on their beliefs they tend to retreat into agnostic territory.
It's very hard to defend the idea that matter and energy adequately explain life, the universe, and everything. Which is why you generally see them run away🏃‍♂️from defending physical materialism.
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Most seem to simply be anti-Christian. Probably something traumatic in their background but usually just the mental attitude of a rebellious teenager. They tend to be white, male and under 35 with Christian parents.

Let's be honest, how many Jewish atheists are there? LOL
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
It's interesting to ponder upon. My take (at least right now, it will change with further info/reflection): You've mentioned before how humans seem to be the planet's only lifeforms capable of a sense of awe. We are puny, hairless, claw-less, fang-less fairly helpless animals absent shelter, fire, and hunting tools. No doubt ancient people felt fearful and impotent in a world filled with predators who find us delicious as well as other dangers like earthquakes, storms, floods. Both of these things, awe and fear, could have combined to form the idea of protective gods who control life and death, weather, food, water, wild animals, etc. Perhaps these monuments were built to honor and assauge the gods?

It's also interesting that we imbue our gods with human characteristics -- wrath, love, sexuality -- and include gods coupling with humans. Even in modern religions like Christianity!
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A good point.
It seems totally unique to the human species

My impression is that most ancient religions go beyond just protection from floods and storms. Though that was a huge part of it, especially in the Paleolithic ritual beliefs.
The ancient Chinese, Indian, Persian, Near Eastern religions definitely were worldviews that thought there was a providential natural order and that there were standards of justice and behaviour that were divinely ordained.
 
Cypress said:
When atheists run away🏃‍♂️ from physical materialism, I have repeatedly asked them in that case what is the higher reality transcending matter and energy. And I'm met with dead silence or insults.
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which scientists have run away from materialism?

I'm talking about you presenting desriptive statements about matter and energy and something from a higher plane.

this is you going all Foundation Trilogy and trying to make scientists into high priests of society.

technocracy they call it.

you're dumb and transparent.
 
Cypress said:
A good point.
It seems totally unique to the human species

My impression is that most ancient religions go beyond just protection from floods and storms. Though that was a huge part of it, especially in the Paleolithic ritual beliefs.
The ancient Chinese, Indian, Persian, Near Eastern religions definitely were worldviews that thought there was a providential natural order and that there were standards of justice and behaviour that were divinely ordained.
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it's not a good point.

how can you measure "awe" in other species?

you people are dumb.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Most seem to simply be anti-Christian. Probably something traumatic in their background but usually just the mental attitude of a rebellious teenager. They tend to be white, male and under 35 with Christian parents.

Let's be honest, how many Jewish atheists are there? LOL
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they hate Christianity because it has the golden rule as the main tenet, and transcends the tribalism (the good samaritan) that authoritarian regimes depend upon and seek to amplify.

:truestory:
 
Phantasmal said:
It was also and still is a means to control humans.
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There was/is definitely a dark side to religion. The shaman who could convince others that he/she had the power to speak to and for the gods got immense power over the group.

As a pagan I've read a lot about women in ancient and modern religions. In primitive societies, those who knew healing plants and how to use them were venerated. Usually these were women, as males did the hunting for the most part while women did the gathering of non-meat foods. You can see aspects of this in ancient deities like Hecate, Demeter, Hygieia, Panacea, Sekhmet. Somehow Christianity turned this reverence (and knowledge) into labeling women with healing knowledge as "witches."
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Most seem to simply be anti-Christian. Probably something traumatic in their background but usually just the mental attitude of a rebellious teenager. They tend to be white, male and under 35 with Christian parents.

Let's be honest, how many Jewish atheists are there? LOL
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Good point.

Dawkins came to atheism around age 18, and according to what I've read he believes his education in zoology and evolution made a creator unnecessary. A weak argument, in my opinion.

But he also had a financial interest in presenting himself as a leading atheist, so it's hard to distinguish between his financial motives and his core principles.
 
Phantasmal said:
It was also and still is a means to control humans.
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No more than public school is a "means to control humans". :)

It's social indoctrination. Consider the Amish or Mennonites. They are clannish, stick with their own and are united by their faith. You've seen me write about the adverse consequences of eliminating the draft where the military indoctrinated people to unify to protect the Constitution. After the draft ended, we had "the Me Decade" and, 40 years later 1/6 which was a demonstration of "me, me, me". They didn't give a shit about the United States, their fellow Americans or anything except themselves. Without a common cause and common beliefs, people drift in different direcdtions.

This is why I always laugh at the anarchists who think humans can exist without government in tribal societies. Sure they can, until some city-state army comes by, takes their food, livestock, women and burns their huts down. LOL
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
There was/is definitely a dark side to religion. The shaman who could convince others that he/she had the power to speak to and for the gods got immense power over the group.

As a pagan I've read a lot about women in ancient and modern religions. In primitive societies, those who knew healing plants and how to use them were venerated. Usually these were women, as males did the hunting for the most part while women did the gathering of non-meat foods. You can see aspects of this in ancient deities like Hecate, Demeter, Hygieia, Panacea, Sekhmet. Somehow Christianity turned this reverence (and knowledge) into labeling women with healing knowledge as "witches."
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The dark side is the people behind it. Same for governments and any organization like the NRA or an HOA.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
There was/is definitely a dark side to religion. The shaman who could convince others that he/she had the power to speak to and for the gods got immense power over the group.

As a pagan I've read a lot about women in ancient and modern religions. In primitive societies, those who knew healing plants and how to use them were venerated. Usually these were women, as males did the hunting for the most part while women did the gathering of non-meat foods. You can see aspects of this in ancient deities like Hecate, Demeter, Hygieia, Panacea, Sekhmet. Somehow Christianity turned this reverence (and knowledge) into labeling women with healing knowledge as "witches."
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yes.

similar to how cypress hates plain text readings of the Bible and always defers to professional "learned theocrats".


they also labelled believing Jesus was just a very wise regular person as the "Aryan heresy".
 
Cypress said:
Good point.

Dawkins came to atheism around age 18, and according to what I've read he believes his education in zoology and evolution made a creator unnecessary. A weak argument, in my opinion.

But he also had a financial interest in presenting himself as a leading atheist, so it's hard to distinguish between his financial motives and his core principles.
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Dawkins became rich playing off the militant atheist movement.
 
My problem with religion is much more simple that most of the reasons mentioned here.

I will never understand the logic
of a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving deity
creating a universe so rife with misery and suffering.

There is NO logical explanation for that.

Something had to precipitate the advent of matter,
and that's our mystery. It couldn't have been a loving god.
 
domer76 said:
Living in Baton Rouge and you don’t have cancer yet? Wow, talk about dodging the bullet!
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I stayed in a MOtel just across the river in baton rouge.

most corrupt place you can notice in an overnight stay.

It looked seedy from the get go.

In the main lobby they had a keg and gave me a plastic cup, straight up telling me simultaneously that if the cops came to ditch the cup and walk away. Awesome.

inside was an all Mexican highway construction crew all holding such cups in hand...

the cops did eventually come.. but only for a schedule hand off of couple bucks\

the lady behind the desk asked me if I wanted a prostitute. I said yes but nobody came. not even me.

the next morning they had me sign all kinds of questionable slips,

including one saying I had been ripped off multiple times in the vending machines in the MOtel.

shakedowns at every end. i signed it. what do I care.

an around the world of every low level corruption. all holes filled.

god bless Louisiana.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
My problem with religion is much more simple that most of the reasons mentioned here.

I will never understand the logic
of a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving deity
creating a universe so rife with misery and suffering.

There is NO logical explanation for that.

Something had to precipitate the advent of matter,
and that's our mystery. It couldn't have been a loving god.
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but what if religion is not about cosmic explanations of the origins of matter, but it's about how to treat each other?

why does your question mix the explanation of matter with human suffering?

matter is the same in a golden age.

you're falling prey to lots of stupidity.
 
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