8 of the biggest Myths...

Our Federal debt is 83.3% of the GDP...2009
and will hit 94.3% this year....and you think using 50% of the GDP just for healthcare is wise? We can't afford the shit we demand now....

Other countries achieve "higher results"...????
If by "higher results" you mean better care to patients, you're just sadly mistaken...too much Koolade for sure....

Those that can come to this country for care and those that can't of course love what they get at home...they have no choice.


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html

How's it going in France today? 60% total tax rate
How about Greece?...............65%

Socialism is unsustainable nonsense.....

Nice try, you avoided the question. Why do these nations spend abut half, per capita GDP, on health care that we in the US do if these reforms don't work?

Why do these nations also acheive lower mortality and morbidity rates? Why is their infant mortality rates lower? Why do they have lower rates of preventable diseases, such as, heart disease, diabetes, cancer? Why do they have higher life expectancies?

No only are you the one drinking kool-aid you're a hypocrite. If you're so adamantly opposed to socialism state to us all right here and right now that as a matter of principle you will completely give up any VA health care benefits you have? By the way that socialist program costs us about 500 billion annually, since this is an unsustainable socialist program I guess you will be happy to support the elimination of the VA program, right?
 
Budgets are done in CONGRESS. The President makes requests, but the budgets are created in CONGRESS. Why is this concept so hard for liberals to get?

What’s hard for Conservatives to get is the President is supposed to lead. He can veto what he doesn’t want. Furthermore, as President, Bush should have known about the pending economic crisis.

Some Con pundits say Bush did know and the Cons tried to prevent it but the Liberal Congress did nothing. Fine. That does not mean Bush couldn’t have properly informed the citizens.

Look at the way Bush pushed the Iraq war. He took his case (a lie from beginning to end) to the people who, in turn, pressured their reps to vote for the war. Bush could have and should have done TV appearances and pushed for economic solutions as he did with the Iraq war. The question is, “Why didn’t he?” and the answer is, “Because the Repubs don’t give a damn about the average guy.” The same way Greenspan said that when enough people lost money the “invisible hand” would correct things as people would change their investment strategy. Unfortunately, he was wrong. And he was wrong for 30 years as he admitted to Congress. I suppose one should feel sorry for a guy who was wrong the majority of his professional life.

Whether the Repubs are a war-mongering, don’t-give-a-damn political party or just wholly incompetent the results are the same. To blame Obama for the eight years of screw-ups by the Repubs borders on insanity.

Tax cuts DO NOT CREATE DEBT. Tax cuts typically return money to those that earned it. Unless they are Obama 'tax cuts' that keep returning more money to people who don't pay income taxes.

Tax cuts do create debt. If everyone in a household is supposed to contribute to the running of said household and contributions are cut there will be debt and the debt will mount. This is not rocket science.

Bullshit. That is simply the line of crap being spouted by the 'government can fix anything' crowd. It is not that it wasn't enough.... The stimulus was a stop gap.... a poorly designed stop gap. Too much went towards protecting public sector union jobs and not enough went towards actually trying to CREATE jobs.

So where is the logic in not protecting jobs and watching them disappear while trying to create more jobs? Police, fire department personnel, teachers….have them lose their jobs so the government can create other jobs? Classic Repub thinking.

If you think hiring is a simple response to demand you are ignorant.

Huh? Companies hire people AFTER they realize they require additional personnel. They do not hire people and then look for a job they can do.

Social Security IS a Ponzi scheme. It's payouts are dependent on new people paying old people in the system. It is a poorly designed system.

It’s not a Ponzi scheme. New people are added each generation and the older ones die. A Ponzi scheme assumes the top people will stay there. Also, as populations fluctuate it’s natural there will be ups and downs. The baby boomers were an anomaly.

Saying 'it has run a surplus since it began' is a simpleton's view of SS. Had SS not been tweaked in the early 80's, it would have failed. 2010 is the first year it will pay out more than it receives in revenues.

So it was tweaked. Not bad for a program that had run almost 50 years. Consider the people it helped over those 50 years not to mention the people it helped over the next 25 years and is still helping today. I wonder if the naysayers back in the ‘30s thought it would still be around 75 years later. I suppose they were just like today’s health care opponents.

It is a MYTH that the health care bill will reduce the deficit. It was a smoke and mirrors game played by Congress. The same Congress that people are now voting out of office.... The Senate will remain in Dem leadership... but the House leaderhsip will fall and new leadership will emerge in 2011.

Of course, it wouldn’t be a Repub post if it didn’t mention health care. Once again, here’s the chart. http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds...m=country:USA:GRC:CAN:FRA:DEU:GBR:IRL:ITA:AUS

As one can see the life expectancy in countries with a health care plan is longer than the life expectancy in the US and isn't living longer the goal of any health plan? A little tweaking here and there and the country will have a health plan the envy of the world and save money, as well.
 
I don't think the public is ignorant...what they are concerned with is the "total public debt" not the "yearly deficit"...Bush raised it about 4 trillion and Obama will raise it another 6 trillion for a grand total of 16.5 (estimated)trillion...

The new Congress could do things that cause a depression. ???
The new Congress could do things that cause an economic boom, too.
and it sure sux to be in the position we are and say the stimulus worked...that my friend is koolade bogus fantasy....as sure as we all know that Barney frank and his buddies almost brought this country to its knees with socialist Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac bullshit ....

Healthcare is welfare porgram...it MUST get its funding from somewhere. Doctors, Nurses, and all medical field personal will not work for peanuts,....drugs, new and old cost money, R & D is not free, equipment is not free, overhead to operate a hospital will increase, and a million other things .....to pay for it will require enormous tax increases and then some. To claim it will reduce the deficit is nuts on its face. government will pay the entire thing from soup to nuts.


We already pay for most of the R&D for new drugs. Big Pharma pays three times as much on advertising as they do on R&D. In fact, in the last 25+ years, of the 14 most efficacious drugs developed, 11 were either developed by, or funded by, the National Institutes of Health (NIH), so we are already covering close to 80% of the R&D tab through the taxes that support NIH. Oh, and BTW, the most-prescribed cancer drug was developed by NIH, then licensed to Bayer for manufacture and sale. Bayer immediately jacked up the markup on the royalty due the taxpayers by 1000%. So we're paying for it twice. Our taxes paid for the R&D, and npw we're paying for Bayer's outrageous markup. That's what a for-profit health system brings you: your money or your life. We pay DOUBLE for health care than our nearest universal health care competitor, and with most, we are paying three or four times the per capita health care costs of any country with universal health care. It's better than ours and cheaper than ours. Which part of that don't you cpmprehend?
 
It cracks me up how these guys can say that Barney Frank and his buddies almost brought this country to its knees. Who knew Barney had that kind of power?
He needs to use it for the good, wave his magic wand and make things all better now.

LIVE AND LEARN
Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing crisis; meltdown
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The Democrats and Obama caused the financial crisis of 08 by supporting Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
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Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis
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2004 Dem. coverup of Fanny and Freddie
Fannie Mae CEO calling Obama and the Dems the "Family" and "Conscience" of Fannie Mae
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Clinton administration's "BANK AFFIRMATIVE ACTION" They forced banks to make BAD
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How Fannie Mae Bought the Democrat Party
 
Fully 50% of the US workers do not pay ANY income tax and some actually get refund checks besides not paying....
Do you think they will have to pay for Obamacare???
The 10's of millions that will get added to the rolls....will all of them, or even any of them, pay for Obamacare....????
The Illegals that already overwhelm our system of "get the care and screw the provider"....will they now get taxed for Obamacare..????

Will the care be rationed as it is in every other country that has socialized its system....????


I think you're full of shit, friend....neither you nor I can even guess how this enormous socialist scheme will be financed or how much it will cost each and every taxpayer.....and then repeat the koolade crap of it reducing the deficit....its insane....the government can't even handle the relatively small group on Medicare and Medicaid.....

What I want is for someone to tell me my present carrier's premiums will NOT go up if the health care bill is repealed. Can you do that?

My premiums go up every single year. I'm paying a lot more now than I paid 5-10-15 years ago, and the current year's plan is cutting services that used to be covered.

You righties like to project that costs will increase when the bill is fully implemented, so how about using some of that projection to reassure me that my provider isn't going to stick it to me in the future, and that costs and services will stay the same or decrease.

Can you do that bravo, huh?
 
What I want is for someone to tell me my present carrier's premiums will NOT go up if the health care bill is repealed. Can you do that?

My premiums go up every single year. I'm paying a lot more now than I paid 5-10-15 years ago, and the current year's plan is cutting services that used to be covered.

You righties like to project that costs will increase when the bill is fully implemented, so how about using some of that projection to reassure me that my provider isn't going to stick it to me in the future, and that costs and services will stay the same or decrease.

Can you do that bravo, huh?
Nope, just can't explain it....

....the same damn thing happens to me every year with school

taxes, beer, eggs, electricity, gas, etc....its just a mystery

Everything increases but my soc. sec. check and my retirement check.....:palm:
 
Nope, just can't explain it....

....the same damn thing happens to me every year with school

taxes, beer, eggs, electricity, gas, etc....its just a mystery

Everything increases but my soc. sec. check and my retirement check.....:palm:

So in other words, you have no real proof that the costs under the health care plan will be greater than the costs of private insurance in 2014.
 
Nope, just can't explain it....

....the same damn thing happens to me every year with school

taxes, beer, eggs, electricity, gas, etc....its just a mystery

Everything increases but my soc. sec. check and my retirement check.....:palm:

Oh my Sir you are just so wrong about this. Don't forget that every year your freedom decreases...
 
Furthermore, as President, Bush should have known about the pending economic crisis.

I literally laughed out loud at this comment. And how is the President suppose to know about the pending economic crisis? Is the economy controlled by some special group in a cave that passes a note onto to the President letting him know what they are going to do next?

Maybe Jon Paulson should be our President. He made $6 billion in three years betting against subprime mortgages. He saw the crash coming why didn't everyone else? A book was written about him called the Greatest Trade Ever. Many of the brightest minds in America didn't see the crash coming in terms of its depth. My company had several Phd's heading up our research department who forecast future growth and in 2007 we purchased $12 billion worth of commercial real estate. Would we have done it had we known the crash was coming? Hell fricking no.

When was the last time housing values in the U.S. really dropped? What some 60 years prior if not more? So obviously many people were wrong in '06 and '07 when they were betting housing prices would keep growing but it wasn't like there was such obvious historical data staring the country in the face saying a crash was imminent.

So tell us who is going to correctly predict the next three or four years of economic activity today so we can get them to run for President now. Thanks apple, our country appreciates it.
 
I literally laughed out loud at this comment. And how is the President suppose to know about the pending economic crisis? Is the economy controlled by some special group in a cave that passes a note onto to the President letting him know what they are going to do next?

Maybe Jon Paulson should be our President. He made $6 billion in three years betting against subprime mortgages. He saw the crash coming why didn't everyone else? A book was written about him called the Greatest Trade Ever. Many of the brightest minds in America didn't see the crash coming in terms of its depth. My company had several Phd's heading up our research department who forecast future growth and in 2007 we purchased $12 billion worth of commercial real estate. Would we have done it had we known the crash was coming? Hell fricking no.

When was the last time housing values in the U.S. really dropped? What some 60 years prior if not more? So obviously many people were wrong in '06 and '07 when they were betting housing prices would keep growing but it wasn't like there was such obvious historical data staring the country in the face saying a crash was imminent.

So tell us who is going to correctly predict the next three or four years of economic activity today so we can get them to run for President now. Thanks apple, our country appreciates it.

housing prices have dropped significantly during the last few decades, usually lasting for a few years then economic pressure lifts them again

however, it is the responsibility of the federal government to monitor and regulate said market - this latest crisis did not happen in a vacuum, it grew over a few years - proving that less oversight or regulation is not good

but people were making money and it gave a false sense of a good economy, so it was left in the wind
 
Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:

1) President Obama tripled the deficit.
Reality: Bush's last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama's first budget reduced that to $1.29 trillion.
True. TARP was expensive. This ignores that over 700 Billion of that last Bush year deficit has since been paid back in the TARP program.

2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.
Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the "stimulus" was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.
Partially true. It was the only really effective part of the stimulus, the problem was the tax cuts were specifically targeted and thus less effective.

3) President Obama bailed out the banks.
Reality: While many people conflate the "stimulus" with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be "non-reviewable by any court or any agency.") The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.

Um... No:

February 2009: Obama stimulus $200 billion for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
March 2009: Obama stimulus $30 billion for AIG
March 2009: Obama Stimulus $15 billion for small business lending
March 2009: Obama Stimulus $1 trillion to get toxic assets off bank’s troubled asset sheets
March 2009: Obama Stimulus $22 billion for Big 3 Automakers Chrysler and GM

The reality is Obama did bail out the banks. While TARP was relatively successful and money was paid back for that particular bail out, others continued to happen and are ignored by too many. Where did that money that got paid back go? I surmise a bit of it was on the above.

4) The stimulus didn't work.
Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.
Partially true. The CBO by writ must assume that the numbers submitted to them by Congress are accurate, depending on reports from this source is foolish in the extreme. And yes, I will say the same when the numbers reflect something the Rs wanted them to reflect. Garbage in = Garbage out.

Portions of the stimulus did work, previously I even stated that the tax cuts were one of those.

5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.
Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.
Businesses will hire when they are assured that the rules and the incentive will remain. There is nothing in the stimulus to give them that reassurance. The reality is, higher taxes will never cause any business to do better and be willing to hire. Such incentives must be directly linked to hiring.

6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.
Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.
Again, based on false numbers fed to the CBO who MUST assume that the assumptions of Congress are fact. Now this "$1 Trillion" number came from the CBO report of $940 Billion. Actual cost estimates have climbed up since then, and the supposed "savings" in premiums failed to materialize.

7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is "going broke," people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.
Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.

The reality is that any money collected for Social Security is spent in the General Funds and has been 100% that way since Clinton and the R Congress pretended they were "balancing the budget". They did this on the back of Social Security. The promise to pay is part of the $13 Trillion in debt we owe.

8) Government spending takes money out of the economy.
Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on "welfare" and "foreign aid" when that is only a small part of the government's budget.

I'd like to see somebody say that spending takes away from the economy, do you have a link?

This stuff really matters.

If the public votes in a new Congress because a majority of voters think this one tripled the deficit, and as a result the new people follow the policies that actually tripled the deficit, the country could go broke.

If the public votes in a new Congress that rejects the idea of helping to create demand in the economy because they think it didn't work, then the new Congress could do things that cause a depression.

If the public votes in a new Congress because they think the health care reform will increase the deficit when it is actually projected to reduce the deficit, then the new Congress could repeal health care reform and thereby make the deficit worse. And on it goes.
Too bad you fell for talking points rather than looking into the facts of the matter.
 
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