8 of the biggest Myths...

signalmankenneth

Verified User
Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:

1) President Obama tripled the deficit.
Reality: Bush's last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama's first budget reduced that to $1.29 trillion.

2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.
Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the "stimulus" was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.

3) President Obama bailed out the banks.
Reality: While many people conflate the "stimulus" with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be "non-reviewable by any court or any agency.") The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.

4) The stimulus didn't work.
Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.

5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.
Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.

6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.
Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.

7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is "going broke," people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.
Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.

8) Government spending takes money out of the economy.
Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on "welfare" and "foreign aid" when that is only a small part of the government's budget.

This stuff really matters.

If the public votes in a new Congress because a majority of voters think this one tripled the deficit, and as a result the new people follow the policies that actually tripled the deficit, the country could go broke.

If the public votes in a new Congress that rejects the idea of helping to create demand in the economy because they think it didn't work, then the new Congress could do things that cause a depression.

If the public votes in a new Congress because they think the health care reform will increase the deficit when it is actually projected to reduce the deficit, then the new Congress could repeal health care reform and thereby make the deficit worse. And on it goes.
 
Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:


This stuff really matters.

If the public votes in a new Congress because a majority of voters think this one tripled the deficit, and as a result the new people follow the policies that actually tripled the deficit, the country could go broke.

If the public votes in a new Congress that rejects the idea of helping to create demand in the economy because they think it didn't work, then the new Congress could do things that cause a depression.

If the public votes in a new Congress because they think the health care reform will increase the deficit when it is actually projected to reduce the deficit, then the new Congress could repeal health care reform and thereby make the deficit worse. And on it goes.
I don't think the public is ignorant...what they are concerned with is the "total public debt" not the "yearly deficit"...Bush raised it about 4 trillion and Obama will raise it another 6 trillion for a grand total of 16.5 (estimated)trillion...

The new Congress could do things that cause a depression. ???
The new Congress could do things that cause an economic boom, too.
and it sure sux to be in the position we are and say the stimulus worked...that my friend is koolade bogus fantasy....as sure as we all know that Barney frank and his buddies almost brought this country to its knees with socialist Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac bullshit ....

Healthcare is welfare porgram...it MUST get its funding from somewhere. Doctors, Nurses, and all medical field personal will not work for peanuts,....drugs, new and old cost money, R & D is not free, equipment is not free, overhead to operate a hospital will increase, and a million other things .....to pay for it will require enormous tax increases and then some. To claim it will reduce the deficit is nuts on its face. government will pay the entire thing from soup to nuts.
 
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I don't think the public is ignorant...what they are concerned with is the "total public debt" not the "yearly deficit"...Bush raised it about 4 trillion and Obama will raise it another 6 trillion for a grand total of 16.5 (estimated)trillion...

The new Congress could do things that cause a depression. ???
The new Congress could do things that cause an economic boom, too.
and it sure sux to be in the position we are and say the stimulus worked...that my friend is koolade bogus fantasy....as sure as we all know that Barney frank and his buddies almost brought this country to its knees with socialist Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac bullshit ....

Healthcare is welfare porgram...it MUST get its funding from somewhere. Doctors, Nurses, and all medical field personal will not work for peanuts,....drugs, new and old cost money, R & D is not free, equipment is not free, overhead to operate a hospital will increase, and a million other things .....to pay for it will require enormous tax increases and then some. To claim it will reduce the deficit is nuts on its face. government will pay the entire thing from soup to nuts.

Myth #9. Health Care Reform is welfare. If I consent to pay X% of my income to an organization to indemnify my future health care cost it is not welfare. It is an investment and it matters not if that organization is an insurance company or the government as long as I receive the service for which I pay.
 
Myth #9. Health Care Reform is welfare. If I consent to pay X% of my income to an organization to indemnify my future health care cost it is not welfare. It is an investment and it matters not if that organization is an insurance company or the government as long as I receive the service for which I pay.

EIGHT OF THE BIGGEST MYTHS ON JPP

#1. DAMO ISN'T ALWAYS RIGHT, HE'S JUST ALWAYS RIGHT WITH LIBERALS.

#2. CONSERVATIVES LOVE JACKASSES MORE THAN LIBERALS

#3. GRIND ISN'T REALLY A YOUNGINS PWN, HE'S JUST A LONG HAIRED ONE-LEGGED MIDGET

#5. CAPTAIN BILLY REALLY JUST DRINKS HOLY WATER EACH NIGHT

#6. HOOPY'S WIFE MARRIED HIM FOR HIS LOOKS AND POTENTIAL INCOME

#7. SOCRTEASE IS REALLY NOT A DRAGQUEEN. HE ACTUALLY TAKES HORMONES FOR THAT BEARD.

#8. THEY CALLED BEEFY, "BEEFY" BECAUSE HIS BODY'S THE SHAPE OF A TOMATO.
 
Myth #9. Health Care Reform is welfare. If I consent to pay X% of my income to an organization to indemnify my future health care cost it is not welfare. It is an investment and it matters not if that organization is an insurance company or the government as long as I receive the service for which I pay.
Then we don't really need any "reform" do we ?

Fully 50% of the US workers do not pay ANY income tax and some actually get refund checks besides not paying....
Do you think they will have to pay for Obamacare???
The 10's of millions that will get added to the rolls....will all of them, or even any of them, pay for Obamacare....????
The Illegals that already overwhelm our system of "get the care and screw the provider"....will they now get taxed for Obamacare..????

Will the care be rationed as it is in every other country that has socialized its system....????


I think you're full of shit, friend....neither you nor I can even guess how this enormous socialist scheme will be financed or how much it will cost each and every taxpayer.....and then repeat the koolade crap of it reducing the deficit....its insane....the government can't even handle the relatively small group on Medicare and Medicaid.....
 
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"7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is "going broke," people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.
Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to."


There is no actual Social Security trust fund. By law, the ONLY thing that can be done with the Social Security surpluses is to loan them to the federal gov't.

So what we actually have is an IOU from the federal gov't for trillions of dollars. If that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling you haven't been paying attention.

Also, the reason we have surpluses is that we have more people working than we have retired. That will changed drastically in the next 7 to 10 years. Once the retirees outnumber the workers, the surpluses get spent in ever-increasing amounts.



Also, your claim concerning life expectancy is wrong.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/TR08/tr08.pdf

According to that gov't report, in 1940, the average 65-year-old male had a life expectancy of 11.9 more years. As of 2004, the average 65-year-old male has a life expectancy of 16.7 more years. That is a 40% increase. That is certainly not due to more live births.
 
I don't think the public is ignorant...what they are concerned with is the "total public debt" not the "yearly deficit"...Bush raised it about 4 trillion and Obama will raise it another 6 trillion for a grand total of 16.5 (estimated)trillion...

The new Congress could do things that cause a depression. ???
The new Congress could do things that cause an economic boom, too.
and it sure sux to be in the position we are and say the stimulus worked...that my friend is koolade bogus fantasy....as sure as we all know that Barney frank and his buddies almost brought this country to its knees with socialist Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac bullshit ....

Healthcare is welfare porgram...it MUST get its funding from somewhere. Doctors, Nurses, and all medical field personal will not work for peanuts,....drugs, new and old cost money, R & D is not free, equipment is not free, overhead to operate a hospital will increase, and a million other things .....to pay for it will require enormous tax increases and then some. To claim it will reduce the deficit is nuts on its face. government will pay the entire thing from soup to nuts.

Can you not see what is staring you in the face? You are trotting out the misthought simplistic ideas that are being fed to you by people who KNOW you are too stupid to understand the economics of a nation of 300 million and all that entails. We used to call it 'purse' politics under Thatcher. She thought the working classes of Britain were stupid, too. Thats why we had 13 years of Labour.
Now the new lot, a bunch of schoolboys are trying the same trick.
I know, as a sailor, you only had to know in which direction to aim your dick but come on, Bravo, think man!
 
Fully 50% of the US workers do not pay ANY income tax and some actually get refund checks besides not paying....
Do you think they will have to pay for Obamacare???
The 10's of millions that will get added to the rolls....will all of them, or even any of them, pay for Obamacare....????
The Illegals that already overwhelm our system of "get the care and screw the provider"....will they now get taxed for Obamacare..????

Will the care be rationed as it is in every other country that has socialized its system....????


I think you're full of shit, friend....neither you nor I can even guess how this enormous socialist scheme will be financed or how much it will cost each and every taxpayer.....and then repeat the koolade crap of it reducing the deficit....its insane....the government can't even handle the relatively small group on Medicare and Medicaid.....
Please explain to me then why other developed nations who adopt these reforms spend about half of GDP per capita on health care and achieve significantly higher results then we do. Why is that?
 
Please explain to me then why other developed nations who adopt these reforms spend about half of GDP per capita on health care and achieve significantly higher results then we do. Why is that?
Our Federal debt is 83.3% of the GDP...2009
and will hit 94.3% this year....and you think using 50% of the GDP just for healthcare is wise? We can't afford the shit we demand now....

Other countries achieve "higher results"...????
If by "higher results" you mean better care to patients, you're just sadly mistaken...too much Koolade for sure....

Those that can come to this country for care and those that can't of course love what they get at home...they have no choice.


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html

How's it going in France today? 60% total tax rate
How about Greece?...............65%

Socialism is unsustainable nonsense.....
 
Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:

1) President Obama tripled the deficit.
Reality: Bush's last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama's first budget reduced that to $1.29 trillion.

2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.
Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the "stimulus" was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.

3) President Obama bailed out the banks.
Reality: While many people conflate the "stimulus" with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be "non-reviewable by any court or any agency.") The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.

4) The stimulus didn't work.
Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.

5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.
Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.

6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.
Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.

7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is "going broke," people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.
Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.

8) Government spending takes money out of the economy.
Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on "welfare" and "foreign aid" when that is only a small part of the government's budget.

This stuff really matters.

If the public votes in a new Congress because a majority of voters think this one tripled the deficit, and as a result the new people follow the policies that actually tripled the deficit, the country could go broke.

If the public votes in a new Congress that rejects the idea of helping to create demand in the economy because they think it didn't work, then the new Congress could do things that cause a depression.

If the public votes in a new Congress because they think the health care reform will increase the deficit when it is actually projected to reduce the deficit, then the new Congress could repeal health care reform and thereby make the deficit worse. And on it goes.

More plagiarism, Kenneth? http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010104222/false-things-public-knows-they-go-vote

Or is this you?
 
Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:

1) President Obama tripled the deficit.
Reality: Bush's last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama's first budget reduced that to $1.29 trillion.

Budgets are done in CONGRESS. The President makes requests, but the budgets are created in CONGRESS. Why is this concept so hard for liberals to get?

2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.
Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the "stimulus" was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.

Tax cuts DO NOT CREATE DEBT. Tax cuts typically return money to those that earned it. Unless they are Obama 'tax cuts' that keep returning more money to people who don't pay income taxes.

3) President Obama bailed out the banks.
Reality: While many people conflate the "stimulus" with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be "non-reviewable by any court or any agency.") The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.

Technically, he was a part of Congress that passed the bailouts. I agree that many confuse the stimulus with TARP. So you do have a point here.

4) The stimulus didn't work.
Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.

Bullshit. That is simply the line of crap being spouted by the 'government can fix anything' crowd. It is not that it wasn't enough.... The stimulus was a stop gap.... a poorly designed stop gap. Too much went towards protecting public sector union jobs and not enough went towards actually trying to CREATE jobs.

Also... pretending the stimulus RAISED employment is nothing short of smoke and mirrors and only the profoundly ignorant would make such a claim. EMPLOYMENT has DECLINED from the time the stimulus was passed. Period.

5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.
Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.

If you think hiring is a simple response to demand you are ignorant.

6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.
Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.

Nice Dem talking point. Completely void of fact... but we expect nothing less from you.


7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is "going broke," people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.
Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.

Social Security IS a Ponzi scheme. It's payouts are dependent on new people paying old people in the system. It is a poorly designed system.

Saying 'it has run a surplus since it began' is a simpleton's view of SS. Had SS not been tweaked in the early 80's, it would have failed. 2010 is the first year it will pay out more than it receives in revenues.

Whether it can legally borrow is irrelevant.
Life expectancy IS longer, you are foolish if you think it is just because of fewer babies dying. ALE of a 65 year old in 1935 was about 8.8 years, by 1999 that number was 13.9.

Only a moron thinks SS is 'completely sound for the next 25 years'.

If the public votes in a new Congress because a majority of voters think this one tripled the deficit, and as a result the new people follow the policies that actually tripled the deficit, the country could go broke.

The DEMS have controlled Congress since the start of 2007. So yes, THIS CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP has more than tripled the deficit.

If the public votes in a new Congress because they think the health care reform will increase the deficit when it is actually projected to reduce the deficit, then the new Congress could repeal health care reform and thereby make the deficit worse. And on it goes.

It is a MYTH that the health care bill will reduce the deficit. It was a smoke and mirrors game played by Congress. The same Congress that people are now voting out of office.... The Senate will remain in Dem leadership... but the House leaderhsip will fall and new leadership will emerge in 2011.
 
Please explain to me then why other developed nations who adopt these reforms spend about half of GDP per capita on health care and achieve significantly higher results then we do. Why is that?

Hmmm... I have not seen the data you are referring to.

Please link us up to the data that shows they are spending half of GDP per capita that we are.

Thanks.
 
A few quick comments; I don't feel like addressing the whole list.

- I keep hearing campaign ads in my area citing "Obama's failed stimulus." In my opinion, trying to prove the success or failure of the stimulus is like trying to prove AGW. Both sides have strong opinions, but there really is no way to prove anything. While we're not out of the woods, the economy has been steadily improving; to me, the stimulus served its purpose, and stopped the bleeding at a critical juncture. I know there are those who disagree with that.

- Social Security in its current form is doomed; there is no way around that. Why are people so excited because it has 25 more "good" years? We're cool with an unsustainable program that just hands off the massive problems it will create to the next generation?

- Businesses do want tax cuts, and lower taxes. There is a pretty thick line between creating an environment that is favorable for businesses, and one where they can abuse the system. We can do a better job of fostering a positive business environment, imo....
 
A few quick comments; I don't feel like addressing the whole list.

- I keep hearing campaign ads in my area citing "Obama's failed stimulus." In my opinion, trying to prove the success or failure of the stimulus is like trying to prove AGW. Both sides have strong opinions, but there really is no way to prove anything. While we're not out of the woods, the economy has been steadily improving; to me, the stimulus served its purpose, and stopped the bleeding at a critical juncture. I know there are those who disagree with that.

The stimulus did its primary function... it stopped the bleeding. Could it have been spent better? Absolutely. I would agree that you can argue both sides of the issue though as it is a failure in the sense it did not create jobs. It is a success in the sense that without it, unemployment would likely be higher than it is now. (especially in the public sector)

- Social Security in its current form is doomed; there is no way around that. Why are people so excited because it has 25 more "good" years? We're cool with an unsustainable program that just hands off the massive problems it will create to the next generation?

- Businesses do want tax cuts, and lower taxes. There is a pretty thick line between creating an environment that is favorable for businesses, and one where they can abuse the system. We can do a better job of fostering a positive business environment, imo....


Agreed on these
 
I don't think the public is ignorant...what they are concerned with is the "total public debt" not the "yearly deficit"...Bush raised it about 4 trillion and Obama will raise it another 6 trillion for a grand total of 16.5 (estimated)trillion...

The new Congress could do things that cause a depression. ???
The new Congress could do things that cause an economic boom, too.
and it sure sux to be in the position we are and say the stimulus worked...that my friend is koolade bogus fantasy....as sure as we all know that Barney frank and his buddies almost brought this country to its knees with socialist Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac bullshit ....

Healthcare is welfare porgram...it MUST get its funding from somewhere. Doctors, Nurses, and all medical field personal will not work for peanuts,....drugs, new and old cost money, R & D is not free, equipment is not free, overhead to operate a hospital will increase, and a million other things .....to pay for it will require enormous tax increases and then some. To claim it will reduce the deficit is nuts on its face. government will pay the entire thing from soup to nuts.
What exactly are their plans? I have not heard one proposal from the Republicans or Tea bags! All they do is attack their opponents and offer no real solutions! The tea baggers are not offering any real answers and that is what bothers me and they don't have any intelligence to figure out solutions! One of the baggers even said it isn't his job to create jobs, it is just to make money! And this is what you are happy to elect! ??????
 
Fully 50% of the US workers do not pay ANY income tax and some actually get refund checks besides not paying....
Do you think they will have to pay for Obamacare???
The 10's of millions that will get added to the rolls....will all of them, or even any of them, pay for Obamacare....????
The Illegals that already overwhelm our system of "get the care and screw the provider"....will they now get taxed for Obamacare..????

Will the care be rationed as it is in every other country that has socialized its system....????


I think you're full of shit, friend....neither you nor I can even guess how this enormous socialist scheme will be financed or how much it will cost each and every taxpayer.....and then repeat the koolade crap of it reducing the deficit....its insane....the government can't even handle the relatively small group on Medicare and Medicaid.....
Yes, it will be like Medicare, and people have to pay for Medicare in order to get Medicare and if you don't pay, you are fined in that you have to pay a little more than if you would have signed up for it initially! Most people pay around $96, but it goes up with your income level.
 
What exactly are their plans? I have not heard one proposal from the Republicans or Tea bags! All they do is attack their opponents and offer no real solutions! The tea baggers are not offering any real answers and that is what bothers me and they don't have any intelligence to figure out solutions! One of the baggers even said it isn't his job to create jobs, it is just to make money! And this is what you are happy to elect! ??????

It cracks me up how these guys can say that Barney Frank and his buddies almost brought this country to its knees. Who knew Barney had that kind of power?
He needs to use it for the good, wave his magic wand and make things all better now.
 
#3. GRIND ISN'T REALLY A YOUNGINS PWN, HE'S JUST A LONG HAIRED ONE-LEGGED MIDGET

lol. usually i keep my hair verrrrrry short. But for whatever reason I always seem to take pictures when it's longish. And I'm 5'10. I don't really see one-legged as an insult though.... that's an odd one. I think you could have slammed me worse, I got off easy this time :good4u:
 
Other countries achieve "higher results"...????
If by "higher results" you mean better care to patients, you're just sadly mistaken.

When it comes to "higher results" or "better care to patients" I think we can all agree the most important result is how long one lives. I mean, isn't living the goal of health care?

As one can see by this chart (http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds...m=country:USA:GRC:CAN:FRA:DEU:GBR:IRL:ITA:AUS) citizens in countries with government health care live longer. And it costs less.

That's why there is not ONE country that has reverted to the old "pay or suffer" system and every country, without exception, started out with a "pay or suffer" system.

Again, I ask, what is there to discuss?

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Our Federal debt is 83.3% of the GDP...2009
and will hit 94.3% this year....and you think using 50% of the GDP just for healthcare is wise? We can't afford the shit we demand now....

Other countries achieve "higher results"...????
If by "higher results" you mean better care to patients, you're just sadly mistaken...too much Koolade for sure....

Those that can come to this country for care and those that can't of course love what they get at home...they have no choice.


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html

How's it going in France today? 60% total tax rate
How about Greece?...............65%

Socialism is unsustainable nonsense.....
 
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