236k jobs added, unemployment drops to 3.5%

[Walt]

30 months ago, Donald Trumpf and his MAGA cult practically guaranteed an unprecedented economic depression of apocalyptic proportions if Americans dared to elect Joe Biden.

Everything has not been perfect, but Biden has shown a great ability to counter any problem, and we are doing fairly well.

Guess what, nothing was perfect when trump was president, and he showed not ability to counter problems, just to blame others for the problems.

 

[Cypress]

Remember how they crowed when Trump posted lesser numbers?

236k jobs/month would have been a spectacular month in the Trump economy, and MAGAs would have been doing end zone dances over 3.5% unemployment.

 

[evince]

Hmmm, must be why the Dems have won the popular vote in seven out of the last eight presidential elections.

Nobody likes the Republiclowns anymore.
Why?
Because they are Republiclowns!

It’s why they cheat their asses off in elections


Even resorting to taking foreign help to cheat in elections

Let’s remember that they repeatedly got caught giving election information to Russia

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Inflation is down. There are huge numbers of jobs out there to be filled. Almost everyone who wants a job can find one. The main thing holding down wages is people wanting easier jobs for their own personal reasons.

A lot of things are good. Not everything, but a lot of things. And still the alt right claims this is worse than the Great Depression.

It's all Biden's fault.

 

[floridafan]

That's the definite risk, that they overshoot. More recently you heard some chatter that they were going to nail the soft landing. That remains to be seen of course. I'm not some expert on the Fed and monetary policies but I'm definitely more hawkish so I'm personally ok with the continued raising of rates (not unlimited of course) to remove inflation. Personally I work in CRE and our industry is in a recession right now as we feast on low rates, so professionally it's not really helping me.

Over 60,000 posts and you say you have a job?? Lets get real!

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

And they are predicting a great depression that will last for decades. The lack of any understanding of economics on this site and generally among the ALT-RIGHT is shocking.

I suspect that, except for the dimmest of Reichwingers, most of them have some vague understanding of supply and demand, and how a global shutdown (as during the pandemic) can wreak havoc. However, because the current POTUS is (D), they are going with the Blame-that-Idiot-in-the-White-House theory of economics. Had #TRE45ON been re-elected, with the economy being exactly as it is today, we would be treated to lengthy, scholarly cut-n-pasties from the Trump stooges on why things aren't as good as they were three years ago.

 

[Concart]

I suspect that, except for the dimmest of Reichwingers, most of them have some vague understanding of supply and demand, and how a global shutdown (as during the pandemic) can wreak havoc. However, because the current POTUS is (D), they are going with the Blame-that-Idiot-in-the-White-House theory of economics. Had #TRE45ON been re-elected, with the economy being exactly as it is today, we would be treated to lengthy, scholarly cut-n-pasties from the Trump stooges on why things aren't as good as they were three years ago.

Yes, they would be crowing that the black unemployment rate is the lowest in history. Hey, did I mention that the black unemployment rate is the lowest in history? Guess Trump lost on that argument too. I wonder when they will get tired of losing. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

 

[Walt]

Why do you think the alt-left is still complaining about rate hikes?

There is nothing wrong with the word "alt"; it is not really an insult. Alt right went wrong not because it was a bad term, but it was used by bad people to describe themselves. There is no alt left movement, but if there were, calling them alt left would not be an insult.

I cannot speak for all moderates and liberals, but I am not complaining about the rate hikes. Biden is not complaining about the rate hikes. I really do not see anyone complaining about the rate hikes. We could complain about them, they are not pleasant, but what is the point? They are essential, so we live with them.

If trump had been elected, he would have complained about the rate hikes, and done everything he could to fight them. trump had no idea how to do the hard work to keep things going. he wanted just unicorns and rainbows.

It's brought down inflation and hasn't stopped the job market.

It has been a very unique situation where job openings outnumber unemployed two to one. Our economy is destroying job openings that were never filled, so no one is losing a job. It has even encouraged more employment as people who were not looking for a job get worried, and decide to look for a job(and take the job).

That being said, we are suffering from the rate hikes. The old saying is to get rid of inflation you raise rates until things start breaking, and then you raise rates even further. There has been some breaking. It is not easy to get rid of inflation.

Does the alt-left view a 70's version where we roll back inflation some but don't do enough to eliminate it as an acceptable trade off for not doing harm to the labor market?

Volcker raised rates to 20%... That is not half measures. That is brutal. That not just raised unemployment, but decreased lifetime earnings for half the members of a generation. It worked, but economists are still debating whether it was worth it.

It certainly cost Carter reelection.

Nixon bullied Burns into revving the economy so Nixon could be reelected. It caused the high inflation of the 1970's. Nixon was not on the "alt-left."

 

[Walt]

It's all Biden's fault.

It is all Biden's fault, until it turns out all right, and then somehow Biden had nothing to do with it.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

It is all Biden's fault, until it turns out all right, and then somehow Biden had nothing to do with it.

And they say that magic isn't real.

 

[cawacko]

There is nothing wrong with the word "alt"; it is not really an insult. Alt right went wrong not because it was a bad term, but it was used by bad people to describe themselves. There is no alt left movement, but if there were, calling them alt left would not be an insult.

I cannot speak for all moderates and liberals, but I am not complaining about the rate hikes. Biden is not complaining about the rate hikes. I really do not see anyone complaining about the rate hikes. We could complain about them, they are not pleasant, but what is the point? They are essential, so we live with them.

If trump had been elected, he would have complained about the rate hikes, and done everything he could to fight them. trump had no idea how to do the hard work to keep things going. he wanted just unicorns and rainbows.



It has been a very unique situation where job openings outnumber unemployed two to one. Our economy is destroying job openings that were never filled, so no one is losing a job. It has even encouraged more employment as people who were not looking for a job get worried, and decide to look for a job(and take the job).

That being said, we are suffering from the rate hikes. The old saying is to get rid of inflation you raise rates until things start breaking, and then you raise rates even further. There has been some breaking. It is not easy to get rid of inflation.



Volcker raised rates to 20%... That is not half measures. That is brutal. That not just raised unemployment, but decreased lifetime earnings for half the members of a generation. It worked, but economists are still debating whether it was worth it.

It certainly cost Carter reelection.

Nixon bullied Burns into revving the economy so Nixon could be reelected. It caused the high inflation of the 1970's. Nixon was not on the "alt-left."

Two can play your wordsmithing game Walt.

You have plenty of people complaining about rate hikes. Politically Elizabeth Warren has been the most vocal but she is far from the only one. She wrote an op-ed in the WSJ arguing why we shouldn't continue them and put this out, along with other lawmakers, saying rates shouldn't be raised.


Warren, Dean, Lawmakers ask Fed Chair Powell: How Many Millions Will be Thrown out of their Jobs from Fed’s Dangerous Rate Hikes?


https://www.warren.senate.gov/overs...-of-their-jobs-from-feds-dangerous-rate-hikes



This from Robert Reich

The Fed needs to stop raising interest rates

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/12/fed-interest-rate-hikes-inflation-robert-reich


So there are plenty of doves out there who have voiced their displeasure with the Fed's actions.

And we certainly did do half measures in the '70's under Burns. He fought inflation to a point, then pulled back before finishing the job because of people complaining about the economy and jobs. It took until the '81-'82 recession and Volker finishing of the fight. That's why I asked you if the alt-left who wants to pull back on rate increases now want the half measure of the '70's.

 

[Walt]

And they say that magic isn't real.

Sadly, magical thinking is very real.

 

[evince]

Two can play your wordsmithing game Walt.

You have plenty of people complaining about rate hikes. Politically Elizabeth Warren has been the most vocal but she is far from the only one. She wrote an op-ed in the WSJ arguing why we shouldn't continue them and put this out, along with other lawmakers, saying rates shouldn't be raised.






Warren, Dean, Lawmakers ask Fed Chair Powell: How Many Millions Will be Thrown out of their Jobs from Fed’s Dangerous Rate Hikes?



This from Robert Reich

The Fed needs to stop raising interest rates

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/12/fed-interest-rate-hikes-inflation-robert-reich
https://www.warren.senate.gov/overs...-of-their-jobs-from-feds-dangerous-rate-hikes


So there are plenty of doves out there who have voiced their displeasure with the Fed's actions.

And we certainly did do half measures in the '70's under Burns. He fought inflation to a point, then pulled back before finishing the job because of people complaining about the economy and jobs. It took until the '81-'82 recession and Volker finishing of the fight. That's why I asked you if the alt-left who wants to pull back on rate increases now want the half measure of the '70's.

Your team said this tact would be a disaster


Who cares what you now say


You are always wrong

 

[evince]

The LIE that the Republican Party is the fiscal party has lived too long


Time to destroy that idiot myth republicans created by just repeating it a million times

 

[Walt]

And we certainly did do half measures in the '70's under Burns.

I would not even give Burns/Nixon credit for half measures. The conservatives were doing full measures in support of inflation. It was a disgrace. They were willing to destroy the long term economy to reelect Nixon.

And trump would have been far, far worse. trump has even less selflessness than Nixon did. Can anyone imagine trump being willing to sacrifice anything?

He fought inflation to a point

Burns under pressure from Nixon fanned inflation (and growth) as much as he could. Saying he fought inflation is like saying Goebbels spoke out against the Nazis.

That's why I asked you if the alt-left who wants to pull back on rate increases now want the half measure of the '70's.

The alt-left does not describe anyone, but it certainly does not describe Nixon and Burns. Carter and Volcker were not doing half measures. In fact, Carter in particular took things too far. Volcker also took things to insane lengths, but he got better results.

None of your "question" makes sense. A reasonable question would be, "do you think we will have to go as far as a Volcker Shock to get inflation under control?" I do not think we have to go that far, because inflation has not had as long to set in, and because there are so many unfilled jobs out there. We should be grateful to Clinton and Obama for putting us into such a good position. We should also be thankful that we do not have trump with his complete lack of ability to sacrifice, or do hard work.

 

[cawacko]

I would not even give Burns/Nixon credit for half measures. The conservatives were doing full measures in support of inflation. It was a disgrace. They were willing to destroy the long term economy to reelect Nixon.

And trump would have been far, far worse. trump has even less selflessness than Nixon did. Can anyone imagine trump being willing to sacrifice anything?



Burns under pressure from Nixon fanned inflation (and growth) as much as he could. Saying he fought inflation is like saying Goebbels spoke out against the Nazis.



The alt-left does not describe anyone, but it certainly does not describe Nixon and Burns. Carter and Volcker were not doing half measures. In fact, Carter in particular took things too far. Volcker also took things to insane lengths, but he got better results.

None of your "question" makes sense. A reasonable question would be, "do you think we will have to go as far as a Volcker Shock to get inflation under control?" I do not think we have to go that far, because inflation has not had as long to set in, and because there are so many unfilled jobs out there. We should be grateful to Clinton and Obama for putting us into such a good position. We should also be thankful that we do not have trump with his complete lack of ability to sacrifice, or do hard work.

Wow. Have a good weekend Walt.

 

[Walt]

Wow. Have a good weekend Walt.

I work weekends, so it is what it is. Make good money, do sort of interesting work, but still I want to do something bigger. There is something big coming, and I want to be part of it.

I had a great uncle that spent volunteered for the Army before WWII, because he wanted to fight Hitler. He spent 8 years stationed in Panama. He complained about missing the opportunity to be part of something big until his dying day.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Sadly, magical thinking is very real.

I've noticed quite a lot of that here. Especially the repeating of lies over and over, as if repetition will make them come true.

 

[evince]

I work weekends, so it is what it is. Make good money, do sort of interesting work, but still I want to do something bigger. There is something big coming, and I want to be part of it.

I had a great uncle that spent volunteered for the Army before WWII, because he wanted to fight Hitler. He spent 8 years stationed in Panama. He complained about missing the opportunity to be part of something big until his dying day.

Good trouble

 

[evince]

I've noticed quite a lot of that here. Especially the repeating of lies over and over, as if repetition will make them come true.

The republicans have been doing that all my life