catholic school refuses to play baseball against a team with a girl on it

[Adia]

Can you be more specific? I can't find the rulebook online. I know metal spikes are allowed. Granted, we may not see a player sliding 3 ft. out of the baseline like the pros, but do you honestly feel that nobody gets 'spiked' on a sliding play?

Sure you can get spiked. But imo, it's not a reason for her not to play.

 

[Althea]

Sure you can get spiked. But imo, it's not a reason for her not to play.

I didn't say she shouldn't play. In fact, I criticized the team that quit. They should've told the opposing team that they weren't going to pull off of a play.

Not addressing you specifically, but if nobody can imagine a scenario where a player could get hurt pretty badly, I don't know what to say.

 

[Althea]

The big part is where it says that if the fielder has possession of the ball and is attempting to make a play, the runner must either slide, attempt to go around the fielder, or give up.
If the runner interfers with a ball being thrown, the following runner may also be called out.
IE: no intentional breaking up of a double play.
The intentional part is left to the decision of the umpire, who will decide if the runner had the opportunity to get out of the way and not interfer.

This isn't word for word; but it's close enough.

Also an "intentional" spike can and will probably result in an ejection.
There is no reason to slide with the top let sticking up
Any other baseball or softball rules you unclear on?

Having coached/umped baseball for a number of years, I like to think I know the rules. That's why I was looking for the rulebook for this association. I found plenty of places to buy one, though.

Giving yourself up/sliding....you cannot come into a base standing up in an attempt to make the throw to first harder for the defensive player. This is where injuries can occur, because you're going to see hard slides. Legal, but hard. It's rather easy to spike a 2nd baseman on a legal slide. I can also see plays at the plate with hard tags, or football like blocks by the catcher.

I don't see baseball as 'non contact', per se, but it's less contact than other sports.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I didn't say she shouldn't play. In fact, I criticized the team that quit. They should've told the opposing team that they weren't going to pull off of a play.

Not addressing you specifically, but if nobody can imagine a scenario where a player could get hurt pretty badly, I don't know what to say.

They quit; because they didn't want a girl to be playing with their balls.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Having coached/umped baseball for a number of years, I like to think I know the rules. That's why I was looking for the rulebook for this association. I found plenty of places to buy one, though.

Giving yourself up/sliding....you cannot come into a base standing up in an attempt to make the throw to first harder for the defensive player. This is where injuries can occur, because you're going to see hard slides. Legal, but hard. It's rather easy to spike a 2nd baseman on a legal slide. I can also see plays at the plate with hard tags, or football like blocks by the catcher.

I don't see baseball as 'non contact', per se, but it's less contact than other sports.

If the fielder has "tagged" the base and is attempting to make a throw to first, there is no reason for the runner to make a hard slide; because the runner is already out and anything he does to interfer with the following play is going to result in an automatic double play and probably an ejected player.

I coached and was a certified umpired for Little League (Baseball and Softball), Minors through Sr levels.
I also was a certified Umpire for High School (Baseball and Softball), Freshman through Varsity.
I umpired Adult Leagues for both Softball and modified Baseball.

Did this for about 12/13 years, before my sciatica started bothering me.

The only way that there is going to be a legitimate "football block" by the catcher, is if the ball and runner reach there at the same time.

All "contact" must be incidental, or else someone's going to be in trouble.

The hardest to umpire for, is Minor and Major Little League; because they have so many rules that have to be followed.
Ie: no lead off, mandatory play time, etc.

 

[Althea]

If the fielder has "tagged" the base and is attempting to make a throw to first, there is no reason for the runner to make a hard slide; because the runner is already out and anything he does to interfer with the following play is going to result in an automatic double play and probably an ejected player.

I coached and was a certified umpired for Little League (Baseball and Softball), Minors through Sr levels.
I also was a certified Umpire for High School (Baseball and Softball), Freshman through Varsity.
I umpired Adult Leagues for both Softball and modified Baseball.

Did this for about 12/13 years, before my sciatica started bothering me.

The only way that there is going to be a legitimate "football block" by the catcher, is if the ball and runner reach there at the same time.

All "contact" must be incidental, or else someone's going to be in trouble.

The hardest to umpire for, is Minor and Major Little League; because they have so many rules that have to be followed.
Ie: no lead off, mandatory play time, etc.

In 12-13 years, you've never seen close plays at any base?

You're purposely avoiding the obvious. It isn't like they're hiding a girl in the outfield. She's in a pretty busy position. So a batter rips one into the gap in left center. Shortstop goes out for the cutoff, and the 2nd baseman waits for the play at the bag. Ball and runner get there at the same time.

Hard slide, feet first. Perfectly legal.

This isn't a 'rules' issue. It's a physical game. I didn't say she shouldn't play. I didn't say the team should've quit. I said the team should've told her that she shouldn't be surprised if she gets hurt.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

In 12-13 years, you've never seen close plays at any base?

You're purposely avoiding the obvious. It isn't like they're hiding a girl in the outfield. She's in a pretty busy position. So a batter rips one into the gap in left center. Shortstop goes out for the cutoff, and the 2nd baseman waits for the play at the bag. Ball and runner get there at the same time.

Hard slide, feet first. Perfectly legal.

This isn't a 'rules' issue. It's a physical game. I didn't say she shouldn't play. I didn't say the team should've quit. I said the team should've told her that she shouldn't be surprised if she gets hurt.

I've seen many close plays; but since anyone playing second base knows not to place themselves between the runner and the bag, since all they have to do is tag ANY PART of the bag and the runner is out, there is never the need for an accidentl spike.
Plus there are rules as to the height of the runners non sliding leg and since the base is a set distance in height, there is also no need to have a shoe that high.
I've dealt with coaches who tried the same arguments you're using and they didn't work then and they're not going to work now.

 

[Althea]

I've seen many close plays; but since anyone playing second base knows not to place themselves between the runner and the bag, since all they have to do is tag ANY PART of the bag and the runner is out, there is never the need for an accidentl spike.
Plus there are rules as to the height of the runners non sliding leg and since the base is a set distance in height, there is also no need to have a shoe that high.
I've dealt with coaches who tried the same arguments you're using and they didn't work then and they're not going to work now.

Maybe you had comprehension issues then, as you do now?

So, Mr. Umpire for 12-13 years...when a batter rips a double into the gap in left center, is it your claim that the 2nd baseman only has to tag the base on the play at 2nd?

I bet you made a fine coach....and ump.

And, in higher level play, the 2nd baseman will OFTEN place his foot on the first base side of the bag in order to try and block the runner from being able to touch the base.

You ought to watch a game once in a while.

 

[Adia]

I didn't say she shouldn't play. In fact, I criticized the team that quit. They should've told the opposing team that they weren't going to pull off of a play.

Not addressing you specifically, but if nobody can imagine a scenario where a player could get hurt pretty badly, I don't know what to say.

well, my intention was really to criticize the ridiculous policy by the other Catholic team...we believe girls and boys should be seperated (on and off the field) , blah blah....que 18th century thinking, blah.

(and then it went off into the spiking thing, which wouldn't be a concern at all for me if she was my daughter)

I took a look at her and the team. Not exactly hulking figures, as I expected. I think this is probably a small catholic league, her chances of being seriously injured were probably close to 0.

Now, if she's playing against the best 17 and 18 year old boys in the state...it would be a little different.
Unlikely she would be a starter in the first place. Of course there are excepetions...but I certainly acknowledge there's a point where even the best girls trying to play against the best boys at that older age would be a problem. It's not the athletic ability, it just becomes a size and strength issue.
(which I realize you know)

 

[Haiku]

In 12-13 years, you've never seen close plays at any base?

You're purposely avoiding the obvious. It isn't like they're hiding a girl in the outfield. She's in a pretty busy position. So a batter rips one into the gap in left center. Shortstop goes out for the cutoff, and the 2nd baseman waits for the play at the bag. Ball and runner get there at the same time.

Hard slide, feet first. Perfectly legal.

This isn't a 'rules' issue. It's a physical game. I didn't say she shouldn't play. I didn't say the team should've quit. I said the team should've told her that she shouldn't be surprised if she gets hurt.

I'm sure she know's she can be hurt. As a girl I found out around age 11 that the boys (some of the boys) will go out of their way to hurt you just to prove you don't 'belong' in the game...given that I doubt it has changed all that much I'm sure she's aware and willing to play regardless. Gender enforcement is not helpful in my view. If she can play with the boys more power to her as long as the rules are applied equally. The team that refused to play with her should loose...

 

[NOVA]

My girlfriend passed all the physical fitness for fire and safety at Ted Stevens airport ince she was 18. She became Chief and just retired last year, do you know not what you speak.

Of course she did, Miss Groaner......but you can get you ass it was a fitness test especially created for females......how gullible are you ?

Miss Groaner just can handle the truth this is in my links....

Liberal bullshit, destroying what made this country as great as it used to be.....

This is what happens in real life....
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=51112

And here is how the little sweeties feel when the shoe in on the other foot

At the Division I state championships on Saturday at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, there are eight boys in the 28-swimmer field in the 50 freestyle. Although Norwood’s Higgins was ruled academically ineligible Friday and will not compete at the state meet, two of the top four seeds in the 50 freestyle are boys, giving rise to the possibility that a boy could be the girls state champion.

Sarah Hooper, a senior at Needham High who is the fourth-fastest female entrant, finds the situation difficult to swallow.

“It’s really frustrating to see how athletic directors and school administrators aren’t doing anything,” she said. “They really aren’t advocating for us. I understand there isn’t an opportunity for these boys, but it infuriates me that they can’t combine two schools’ boys to create one team or have them compete in separate heats. The way it is now, the boys are taking recognition away from girls who have worked hard and deserve it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/sp...pagewanted=all
​

 

[Phantasmal]

Of course she did, Miss Groaner......but you can get you ass it was a fitness test especially created for females......how gullible are you ?

Miss Groaner just can handle the truth this is in my links....

Liberal bullshit, destroying what made this country as great as it used to be.....

This is what happens in real life....
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=51112

And here is how the little sweeties feel when the shoe in on the other foot

At the Division I state championships on Saturday at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, there are eight boys in the 28-swimmer field in the 50 freestyle. Although Norwood’s Higgins was ruled academically ineligible Friday and will not compete at the state meet, two of the top four seeds in the 50 freestyle are boys, giving rise to the possibility that a boy could be the girls state champion.

Sarah Hooper, a senior at Needham High who is the fourth-fastest female entrant, finds the situation difficult to swallow.

“It’s really frustrating to see how athletic directors and school administrators aren’t doing anything,” she said. “They really aren’t advocating for us. I understand there isn’t an opportunity for these boys, but it infuriates me that they can’t combine two schools’ boys to create one team or have them compete in separate heats. The way it is now, the boys are taking recognition away from girls who have worked hard and deserve it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/sp...pagewanted=all

Nope, she had to do the same test as her male counterparts, haul the hose, drench the fire pit, carry a weighted dummy through a window and down the stairs. She rocked and you just do not want to admit that there are some women as physically capable as some men.​

 

[Althea]

well, my intention was really to criticize the ridiculous policy by the other Catholic team...we believe girls and boys should be seperated (on and off the field) , blah blah....que 18th century thinking, blah.

(and then it went off into the spiking thing, which wouldn't be a concern at all for me if she was my daughter)

I took a look at her and the team. Not exactly hulking figures, as I expected. I think this is probably a small catholic league, her chances of being seriously injured were probably close to 0.

Now, if she's playing against the best 17 and 18 year old boys in the state...it would be a little different.
Unlikely she would be a starter in the first place. Of course there are excepetions...but I certainly acknowledge there's a point where even the best girls trying to play against the best boys at that older age would be a problem. It's not the athletic ability, it just becomes a size and strength issue.
(which I realize you know)

I'm sure she know's she can be hurt. As a girl I found out around age 11 that the boys (some of the boys) will go out of their way to hurt you just to prove you don't 'belong' in the game...given that I doubt it has changed all that much I'm sure she's aware and willing to play regardless. Gender enforcement is not helpful in my view. If she can play with the boys more power to her as long as the rules are applied equally. The team that refused to play with her should loose...

It's funny...when I was coaching, I took kids from 8 years old, and had them until they were 13. When they were 10 or 11, there was a girl on the opposing team. The boys on my team used to move way in when she came up to bat. I was screaming for them to move back, because she was bigger/stronger than most of them! She had a swing like an animal, but she was taking her eye off the ball. I wasn't about to correct her, but I knew that if she ever made contact, the ball was going to disappear.

Then, there comes that one winter when the boys all get bigger/stronger than the girls. It happens so quickly.

I'd rather coach girls, than boys. When you get a group of girls that are into the game, they're WAY more vicious than the boys.

 

[Haiku]

LOL...girls/women are just as competitive as the males... I grew up in a neighborhood filled with boys and I ended up the leader...the mean boy decided his physical strength surpassed any leadership qualities and opted for the 'might makes right' philosophy...then it became males are better than females in everything...girls are stupid BS. He was a huge looser, but he was a BOY...LOL

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Maybe you had comprehension issues then, as you do now?

So, Mr. Umpire for 12-13 years...when a batter rips a double into the gap in left center, is it your claim that the 2nd baseman only has to tag the base on the play at 2nd?

I bet you made a fine coach....and ump.

And, in higher level play, the 2nd baseman will OFTEN place his foot on the first base side of the bag in order to try and block the runner from being able to touch the base.

You ought to watch a game once in a while.

The comprehension level seems to lie with you; because first you talk about a double play, with a runner movig to second, sliding to break up the double play (ie: second baseman tags second base and then throws to first), and now you want to do what Liberals always do and change the situation; because if the "batter rips a double into the gap in left center", then there will be no double play at first to break up (ie: no throw to first).

Let me know when you come back to reality and when you've also chosen which situation you intend to stay with.

After I have schooled you on the one, then we can continue your schooling on the rest and I can tell that you're not going to like the answer on your "blocked bag" attempt.
Unless you decide to try and chnage the situation again.

I can understand your frustration though; seeing as how you probably lost most of your "discussions" with the Unpires.

 

[Althea]

The comprehension level seems to lie with you; because first you talk about a double play, with a runner movig to second, sliding to break up the double play (ie: second baseman tags second base and then throws to first), and now you want to do what Liberals always do and change the situation; because if the "batter rips a double into the gap in left center", then there will be no double play at first to break up (ie: no throw to first).

Let me know when you come back to reality and when you've also chosen which situation you intend to stay with.

After I have schooled you on the one, then we can continue your schooling on the rest and I can tell that you're not going to like the answer on your "blocked bag" attempt.
Unless you decide to try and chnage the situation again.

I can understand your frustration though; seeing as how you probably lost most of your "discussions" with the Unpires.

Nope...it's a lack of comprehension on your part. I made myself pretty clear.

You claimed that there could never be a danger issue at second during an attempted double play, because a runner must slide, or give himself up.

Rather than spend a week debating whether there could ever be a close play at second during a double play, I gave you a scenario that happens all the time.

You're purposely avoiding the obvious. It isn't like they're hiding a girl in the outfield. She's in a pretty busy position. So a batter rips one into the gap in left center. Shortstop goes out for the cutoff, and the 2nd baseman waits for the play at the bag. Ball and runner get there at the same time.

At which point you tried to convince me that the second baseman would simply tag the base, and the runner would be out. Now, you either don't know the rules, or you have reading comprehension issues.

Take your pick.

Because you're wrong about the double play, and even more wrong about the rules regarding running the bases, you once again avoid the issue altogether. Which was, for those that are following along, that there's potential for a girl to get hurt, when playing against a bunch of highschool boys.


Yea...it's definitely a liberal/conservative thing.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Nope...it's a lack of comprehension on your part. I made myself pretty clear.

You claimed that there could never be a danger issue at second during an attempted double play, because a runner must slide, or give himself up.

Rather than spend a week debating whether there could ever be a close play at second during a double play, I gave you a scenario that happens all the time.



At which point you tried to convince me that the second baseman would simply tag the base, and the runner would be out. Now, you either don't know the rules, or you have reading comprehension issues.

Take your pick.

Because you're wrong about the double play, and even more wrong about the rules regarding running the bases, you once again avoid the issue altogether. Which was, for those that are following along, that there's potential for a girl to get hurt, when playing against a bunch of highschool boys.


Yea...it's definitely a liberal/conservative thing.

Are you back to your poor comprehension on the double play, or are you still trying to change the situation?
Please let me know; because I hate to let this go, with you being so uninformed.

 

[Adia]

It's funny...when I was coaching, I took kids from 8 years old, and had them until they were 13. When they were 10 or 11, there was a girl on the opposing team. The boys on my team used to move way in when she came up to bat. I was screaming for them to move back, because she was bigger/stronger than most of them! She had a swing like an animal, but she was taking her eye off the ball. I wasn't about to correct her, but I knew that if she ever made contact, the ball was going to disappear.

Then, there comes that one winter when the boys all get bigger/stronger than the girls. It happens so quickly.

I'd rather coach girls, than boys. When you get a group of girls that are into the game, they're WAY more vicious than the boys.

I can say assuredly that girls/women can be vicious and crazy competitive, I've got two (very faded) spike scars to prove it. Nothing that took me out of the game, ESPECIALLY after one of them that was intentional.

 

[Althea]

I can say assuredly that girls/women can be vicious and crazy competitive, I've got two (very faded) spike scars to prove it. Nothing that took me out of the game, ESPECIALLY after one of them that was intentional.

I had a girl on my team once...she was my favorite player. Had her for baseball, and basketball. She had short hair, and most teams never knew she was a girl!

Seems as if this made natl. news. Just saw it on MSNBC. Religious statements aside, evidently the team that forfeited offered to let her play outfield, and hit. They didn't want her running the bases, though.

Seems they were afraid she'd get hurt.

I'm guessing they're getting a lot of feedback from parents who are PISSED that they chose to quit.

 

[Granule]

once more gender discrimination rears its ugly head, this time in high school sports

I can't wait to meet the first female offensive linewoman.