Several Questions about the Trayvon Martin Case...

Damocles said:
And I keep asking. Do you believe that there will be enough evidence to prove that he had no regard for human life?
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I certainly think it's more than possible I think it's probable. That's why I think 2nd degree murder is the correct charge against Mr. Zimmerman. At this point though I have not seen enough evidence to prove that beyond reasonable doubt. The only thing I know for facts is that Mr. Zimmerman followed Trayvon and confronted him and that after that Mr. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. The sequence of events that occurred between those two events, that I've heard from public testimony, has been either vague, non-existant or contradictory. I could not convict a man on such public hearsay.
 
Damocles said:
It does. She said in her statement that Trayvon said, "Do you have a problem with me?" (or something close to that), and was answered, "What are you doing here?" by Zimmerman. At that point contact was lost.
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Well, there are conflicting stories out there, because Zimmerman's dad made a statement that he didn't believe the girlfriend was on the phone with Martin, but police have varified that he was, and was Zimmerman approaching Trayvon and that is when he stated, do you have a problem or was Trayvon approaching Zimmerman? These are things that will be clarified in the trial.
 
Derp Derp said:
I certainly think it's more than possible I think it's probable. That's why I think 2nd degree murder is the correct charge against Mr. Zimmerman. At this point though I have not seen enough evidence to prove that beyond reasonable doubt. The only thing I know for facts is that Mr. Zimmerman followed Trayvon and confronted him and that after that Mr. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. The sequence of events that occurred after those two events, that I've heard from public testimony, has been either vague, non-existant or contradictory. I could not convict a man on such public hearsay.
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what fact do you have that shows zimmerman confronted martin?
 
Derp Derp said:
I certainly think it's more than possible I think it's probable. That's why I think 2nd degree murder is the correct charge against Mr. Zimmerman. At this point though I have not seen enough evidence to prove that beyond reasonable doubt. The only thing I know for facts is that Mr. Zimmerman followed Trayvon and confronted him and that after that Mr. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. The sequence of events that occurred after those two events, that I've heard from public testimony, has been either vague, non-existant or contradictory. I could not convict a man on such public hearsay.
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Again, statements reflect that he did not confront Trayvon, that he had lost him and was returning after fruitless search. Why do you continue to be "sure" that it was he who began the confrontation?
 
Rana said:
It will come down to who is more believable and if his statements match up with the evidence. The girlfriends statement doesn't match Zimmermans.
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That would work in Zimmermans favor because it is, essentially, hearsay evidence and I know I could not convict someone on hearsay evidence alone.
 
Derp Derp said:
True. Like I said. About the only real facts we have is that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and that he shot and killed Trayvon. We know nothing, for a fact, which happened between those two events. I am very open minded about this case, even if I am unsympathetic with Mr. Zimmerman.
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Once again, for the mentally impaired.
Zimmerman DID NOT confront Martin.
In fact; the recording from Martin's call to his girlfriend shows that he confronted Zimmerman, while Zimmerman was going to the mailbox(s) to meet up with the Police.
 
Rana said:
Well, there are conflicting stories out there, because Zimmerman's dad made a statement that he didn't believe the girlfriend was on the phone with Martin, but police have varified that he was, and was Zimmerman approaching Trayvon and that is when he stated, do you have a problem or was Trayvon approaching Zimmerman? These are things that will be clarified in the trial.
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If the confrontation was begun by Trayvon, and the escalation into physical violence was begun by Trayvon the whole premise that Zimmerman confronted him and attacked him is simply baseless.

This is what the trial will centralize on, they don't need to prove that he killed Trayvon, that is known. The question will be whether he was attacked, who started it, etc.
 
Damocles said:
Again, statements reflect that he did not confront Trayvon, that he had lost him and was returning after fruitless search. Why do you continue to be "sure" that it was he who began the confrontation?
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There is also evidence that he did confront him. It also makes little sense that Trayvon would have confronted Mr. Zimmerman otherwise and I'm a firm believer in Occums razor.
 
Derp Derp said:
There is also evidence that he did confront him. It also makes little sense that Trayvon would have confronted Mr. Zimmerman otherwise and I'm a firm believer in Occums razor.
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That is literally the definition of something that is debated and something that is not certain, you continue to make a false statement of what "we" know to have happened.
 
Damocles said:
If the confrontation was begun by Trayvon, and the escalation into physical violence was begun by Trayvon the whole premise that Zimmerman confronted him and attacked him is simply baseless.

This is what the trial will centralize on, they don't need to prove that he killed Trayvon, that is known. The question will be whether he was attacked, who started it, etc.
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Bullshit. If I'm walking down the street and you are following me and then confront me by asking me "what are you doing here?" as there is evidence of this occuring, then my response would be "Fuck you, leave me alone" and if you did not, I'd probably bust you in the nose. Either way, you provoked that confrontation. Not that this justifies a violent response but that doesn't change the fact that you would have provoked the confrontation which would not have occurred had you just simply left me alone.
 
Damocles said:
That is literally the definition of something that is debated and something that is not certain, you continue to make a false statement of what "we" know to have happened.
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So the testimony that Trayvons girl friend heard Mr. Zimmerman ask him "What are you doing here" isn't evidence?
 
Derp Derp said:
Bullshit. If I'm walking down the street and you are following me and then confront me by asking me "what are you doing here?" as there is evidence of this occuring, then my response would be "Fuck you, leave me alone" and if you did not, I'd probably bust you in the nose. Either way, you provoked that confrontation. Not that this justifies a violent response but that doesn't change the fact that you would have provoked the confrontation which would not have occurred had you just simply left me alone.
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Again, there is zero certainty that he confronted Trayvon. In fact statements from multiple sources, including the girlfriend, tell an entirely different story.

It is literally what I said, this is what the trial, if there is one, will centralize on. The question of who confronted whom, who escalated into physical violence, and what happened during that fight.

If I were being followed, then I lost the follower and was upset about it I very well may confront the person who was following me. And I very likely would have when I was 17...
 
Derp Derp said:
Bullshit. If I'm walking down the street and you are following me and then confront me by asking me "what are you doing here?" as there is evidence of this occuring, then my response would be "Fuck you, leave me alone" and if you did not, I'd probably bust you in the nose. Either way, you provoked that confrontation. Not that this justifies a violent response but that doesn't change the fact that you would have provoked the confrontation which would not have occurred had you just simply left me alone.
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Except there is evidence suggesting that is NOT what happened. That it was Martin who initiated the conversation and that it was Martin that initiated the physical confrontation. You are trying to equate 'following' to 'confrontation'. You are then making up crap to try and justify doing so.
 
Damocles said:
Again, statements reflect that he did not confront Trayvon, that he had lost him and was returning after fruitless search. Why do you continue to be "sure" that it was he who began the confrontation?
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He has reason to lie, to save his own skin. This is why the evidence will be weighed in a court of aw and it all comes down to who the jury believes.
 
Derp Derp said:
So the testimony that Trayvons girl friend heard Mr. Zimmerman ask him "What are you doing here" isn't evidence?
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If you actually take it in context, first she said that Trayvon said, "Do you have a problem with me?" then Zimmerman answered, "What are you doing here?"

I believe that I've read that it even may be on tape.

If he was walking away and Trayvon approached asking him if he had a problem, that confrontation was not begun by Zimmerman.
 
Rana said:
He has reason to lie, to save his own skin. This is why the evidence will be weighed in a court of aw and it all comes down to who the jury believes.
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Which changes nothing of my statement. These questions will be central to the trial.

Who approached whom?
Who escalated into physical violence?
 
The premeditation required for first degree murder can be contemplated seconds prior to the murder.


If I have enough time to think, Oh... Ill kill that guy, that has been enough for first degree in many cases.
 
Derp Derp said:
So the testimony that Trayvons girl friend heard Mr. Zimmerman ask him "What are you doing here" isn't evidence?
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Why don't you repeat everything she stated?

“He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on,” she said. “He said he lost the man. I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.”

“Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for.’ And the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.”
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The above is what Zimmerman stated as well. The question is; Did Martin approach Zimmerman as Zimmerman was walking back to his car (as Zimmerman claims) or did Zimmerman find Trayvon again and start following him which prompted Martins question.

Either way, both Zimmerman and Martin's girlfriend state that it was Martin that initiated the verbal confrontation.

It is unclear who started the physical confrontation, but it started pretty quickly after the verbal exchange... which again is consistent with what Zimmerman and the girlfriend stated.
 
Rana said:
He has reason to lie, to save his own skin. This is why the evidence will be weighed in a court of aw and it all comes down to who the jury believes.
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But the girlfriend stated the same thing... that it was Martin that initiated the verbal confrontation as well. That Martin had lost Zimmerman.
 
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