The Religious Right's Plot To Take Control Of Our Public Schools

leaningright said:
I can certainly give my opinion. I am not a fan of "THE" teacher's union so I am not a member of the NEA nor the OEA (which is a subset of same). I am however a member of a non-union group, POE (Professional Oklahoma Educators) through whom I receive updates on what is going on both locally and nationally and through whom I also receive a bit of legal protection. I have also paid for legal insurance since I began teaching because you never know. I really think some of the efforts of the NEA are far-reaching and...well.....for a lack of a better way to put it....too liberal. I also think the NEA enables bad teachers to stay or makes it too difficult for administration to get rid of them. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
And what would your estimate be of good teachers to bad are and how significant a problem are they in public education or is that an overblown boogey man?
 
leaningright said:
I most definitely agree with this sentiment Mott, though I did note in the post above I don't particularly care for "THE" teacher's union.
Click to expand...
Hell I don't care much for unions either. I worked my ass off to become a professional so I wouldn't need to be part of a collective bargaining unit. Having said that, I'll fight to the death for working peoples right to collectively bargain for wages, benefits and working conditions.
 
Carlos Spicy Weiner said:
The dilemma is thus: If quality education can be found only in private schools, then education has essentially become available exclusively to the wealthy (something we tend to fear in the US). For those trying to get vouchers, it is the only way for them to rescue their children from failing institutions, and so they are looking to cash-in, and send their children off to be with the rich kids.
Click to expand...
That's a false premise. Most public schools are doing a fine job and most public schools outperform most private schools. Most perochial (religious) schools do not perform to the level of quality of public schools.
 
Carlos Spicy Weiner said:
The dilemma is thus: If quality education can be found only in private schools, then education has essentially become available exclusively to the wealthy (something we tend to fear in the US). For those trying to get vouchers, it is the only way for them to rescue their children from failing institutions, and so they are looking to cash-in, and send their children off to be with the rich kids.
Click to expand...

Look at the school busing that has occured (and continues to occur is some cities such as SF) in urban areas where the idea was to mix kids from poor areas with those from more well to do areas. Do you think that has been a success? (not a rhetorical question)
 
Derp Derp said:
That's a false premise. Most public schools are doing a fine job and most public schools outperform most private schools. Most perochial (religious) schools do not perform to the level of quality of public schools.
Click to expand...

If most public schools outperform private schools then why are parents of public schools kids trying to get voucher money to send their kids to worse (private) schools?
 
Derp Derp said:
That's a false premise. Most public schools are doing a fine job and most public schools outperform most private schools. Most perochial (religious) schools do not perform to the level of quality of public schools.
Click to expand...

What it does indicate, are parents who appear to care for their children's well-being. I imagine that the more lousy parents won't be begging for vouchers because they are already absent from the scene.
 
Derp Derp said:
And what would your estimate be of good teachers to bad are and how significant a problem are they in public education or is that an overblown boogey man?
Click to expand...

I honestly don't think it is a boogey man. I teach in a small school and in the 24+ years I have taught we have had 7 teachers that needed to be removed because of either incompetence or because of illicit activity with a student (one case). These "teachers" basically just babysat their classes while teaching next to nothing. To them it was an 8 to 3 "job" for which they were well paid, for the area in which we live. Now in our school, with about 18 teachers serving K-12th grade, over a period of years, maybe 6 doesn't sound like much but I know that in at least three of those cases our district was out a lot of money (which we can't afford) to dismiss the bad teachers....because of the support they received from the teacher's union. Now Mott, I can only speak for my part of the world but as a parent.....and as a co-worker who takes pride in the way the school performs, I think 6 is a pretty high percentage and does unquestionable damage to the kids. Education is a fragile thing. Just one bad year for a class puts them behind for a long time....especially in elementary.
 
cawacko said:
Look at the school busing that has occured (and continues to occur is some cities such as SF) in urban areas where the idea was to mix kids from poor areas with those from more well to do areas. Do you think that has been a success? (not a rhetorical question)
Click to expand...
It sure as hell has been in the south! It's been a spectacular success in the south and has done far more to end the endemic cutural patterns of racial bigotry and discrimination then pretty much anything else. When those kids who were bused together and were forced to go to school together and grew up in the same school system together it makes it harder than hell to be bigoted or discriminate against a friend you grew up with and went to school with. Due to this, though there is still a lot of systemic racism in the south it is not even remotely as virulent as in the rural midwest were there was no forced integration.
 
Derp Derp said:
It sure as hell has been in the south! It's been a spectacular success in the south and has done far more to end the endemic cutural patterns of racial bigotry and discrimination then pretty much anything else. When those kids who were bused together and were forced to go to school together and grew up in the same school system together it makes it harder than hell to be bigoted or discriminate against a friend you grew up with and went to school with. Due to this, though there is still a lot of systemic racism in the south it is not even remotely as virulent as in the rural midwest were there was no forced integration.
Click to expand...

Does it give them anything of academic value, though?
 
Carlos Spicy Weiner said:
What it does indicate, are parents who appear to care for their children's well-being. I imagine that the more lousy parents won't be begging for vouchers because they are already absent from the scene.
Click to expand...

The problem with a country of 330 million people is that even if 90% of the public schools perform well, there are still an awful lot of unhappy people.
 
leaningright said:
I honestly don't think it is a boogey man. I teach in a small school and in the 24+ years I have taught we have had 7 teachers that needed to be removed because of either incompetence or because of illicit activity with a student (one case). These "teachers" basically just babysat their classes while teaching next to nothing. To them it was an 8 to 3 "job" for which they were well paid, for the area in which we live. Now in our school, with about 18 teachers serving K-12th grade, over a period of years, maybe 6 doesn't sound like much but I know that in at least three of those cases our district was out a lot of money (which we can't afford) to dismiss the bad teachers....because of the support they received from the teacher's union. Now Mott, I can only speak for my part of the world but as a parent.....and as a co-worker who takes pride in the way the school performs, I think 6 is a pretty high percentage and does unquestionable damage to the kids. Education is a fragile thing. Just one bad year for a class puts them behind for a long time....especially in elementary.
Click to expand...
I agree. I would be alarmed at such a rate. I, like you, only have the anecdotal evidence of my own experience in that I rarely had any incompetent teachers in my public education and all of them were coaches, in high school, teaching something other than sports.
 
Derp Derp said:
I agree. I would be alarmed at such a rate. I, like you, only have the anecdotal evidence of my own experience in that I rarely had any incompetent teachers in my public education and all of them were coaches, in high school, teaching something other than sports.
Click to expand...

Yep, you certainly have that coach "teaching" History or something similar that comes up from time to time. Fortunately all of my high school teachers were competent except for one Math teacher. That's probably why I work so hard. I vowed when I decided to be a Math teacher that I didn't want to be that guy. As an anomaly, our high school coach taught American History and probably did more to get me ready for college style teaching than anyone.
 
Oh, we see incompetence more in elementary school than anywhere, IMO. Again, this is from my observation in my neck of the woods.
 
leaningright said:
Yep, you certainly have that coach "teaching" History or something similar that comes up from time to time. Fortunately all of my high school teachers were competent except for one Math teacher. That's probably why I work so hard. I vowed when I decided to be a Math teacher that I didn't want to be that guy. As an anomaly, our high school coach taught American History and probably did more to get me ready for college style teaching than anyone.
Click to expand...
I had some coaches who were competent teachers. A few that were even science teachers. Most were a waste of time. We had a very highly qualified math teacher at my high school with a masters in mathimatics from Purdue. Unfortunatly she never did figure out how to communicate to human beings and though she obviously new the subject she sucked royally as an educator. Had a lot of those types in college too.
 
Derp Derp said:
I had some coaches who were competent teachers. A few that were even science teachers. Most were a waste of time. We had a very highly qualified math teacher at my high school with a masters in mathimatics from Purdue. Unfortunatly she never did figure out how to communicate to human beings and though she obviously new the subject she sucked royally as an educator. Had a lot of those types in college too.
Click to expand...

LOL....I try to communicate as best I can as a human being but then warn the kids, if you were in college and the professor was explaining this concept to you this is likely how it would be.......then spill the technical jargin. I want them to be prepared.
 
I will also say that I coached baseball for 6 of my 24+ years and looking back I will say that I was not as effective a Math teacher during those 6 years. Coaching, when done right, takes time.......teaching, when done right, takes time, and there are only so many hours in a day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top