Conservatives Vs. Liberals- More Than Politics

poet

Banned
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thomas-b-edsall/conservatives-vs-liberals_b_1262309.html


The following is an excerpt from The Age of Austerity: How Scarcity Will Remake American Politics.

The contest for power between Democrats and Republicans pits two antithetical value systems against each other; two conflicting concepts of freedom, liberty, fairness, right, and wrong; two mutually exclusive notions of the state, the individual, and the collective good.

A wide range of academic scholarship exploring political belief-formation reveals that those who identify themselves as politically conservative, for example, exhibit distinctive values underpinning their world view and their orientation towards political competition.

Conservatives, argues researcher Philip Tetlock of the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, are less tolerant of compromise; see the world in "us" versus "them" terms; are more willing to use force to gain an advantage; are "more prone to rely on simple (good vs. bad) evaluative rules in interpreting policy issues;" 1 are "motivated to punish violators of social norms (e.g., deviations from traditional norms of sexuality or responsible behavior) and to deter free riders." 2

Some of these conservative values can be discerned in public opinion data.

In one September 2010 survey question, The Pew Research Center asked voters, "If you had to choose, would you rather have a smaller government providing fewer services, or a bigger government providing more services?" White Republican men chose a smaller government by a 92-7 margin and white Republican women made the same choice by an 82-12 margin. Conversely, white Democratic men chose bigger government by a 53-35 margin and white Democratic women by 56-33. This is an ideological gap between Republicans and Democrats of 57 points among white men and 49 points among white women. 3

Along similar lines, Pew asked voters to choose between "Most people who want to get ahead can make it if they're willing to work hard" and "Hard work and determination are no guarantee of success for most people." White Republican men and women both picked "hard work" by decisive margins of 78-21 and 73-24, respectively. White Democratic men and women, in contrast, were far more equivocal, supporting hard work by modest margins of 52-44 and 53-43. 4

These Pew findings demonstrate that the differences of opinion between liberals and conservatives are far greater than the differences in opinion between men and women commonly referred to as the gender gap.


* * *

The Pew questions are designed to test opinion on public policy issues. The strength of the Pew surveys and other comparable, well-designed polls is that the sample is carefully selected to be representative of either the general public or of all voters. The limitation of such surveys is that they are not designed to reveal more subtle distinctions that can be equally or more significant.

This less easily answered question has been explored by a team of academic researchers collaborating at a website -- www.YourMorals.org -- designed to test a variety of theories about the connection between views on morality and politics. Jonathan Haidt and Nicholas Winter of the University of Virginia, and Ravi Iyer of the University of Southern California, have collected and systematized very large numbers of responses to questions designed to elicit new information about political values orientation. Haidt et al. have ranked responses to a set of online public opinion surveys to show where self-described liberal/moderates differ most sharply from conservative/moderates. The strength of the YourMorals.org surveys lies in the large number of respondents; the weakness grows out of the fact that the participants are self-selected, and represent well-educated elites on the left, right, and center, with little representation of the poor, working class, or lower-middle class. 5

The findings published by Haidt et al. powerfully reinforce the paradigm of two roughly equivalent political coalitions: the first, a socially and economically dominant coalition on the right; the second, a coalition on the left composed of relatively disadvantaged (subdominant) voters in alliance with relatively well-educated, well-off, culturally liberal professionals ('information workers,' 'symbol analysts,' 'creatives,' 'knowledge workers,' etc.). 6 The Haidt et. al. data sheds new light on what it means, across a gamut of issues, when someone says he or she is a liberal or a conservative. 7

What kinds of questions and values statements provoke the sharpest divide between left and right? The team looked at responses to 107 questions and found that the most divisive questions included those in the following areas: 8

1) WAR, PEACE, VIOLENCE, EMPATHY WITH THE WORLD:

On key questions and statements in this category, liberals scored high, conservatives low: "I believe peace is extremely important"; "Understanding, appreciation, and protection for the welfare of all people and for nature"; "One of the worst things a person could do is hurt a defenseless animal"; "How close do you feel to people all over the world?"

On other key questions in this area, conservatives scored high, and liberals low: "War is sometimes the best way to solve a conflict"; "There is nothing wrong in getting back at someone who has hurt you."

2) CRIME AND PUNISHMENT; MORAL ELASTICITY; AUTHORITY:

Again, on some questions in this category, liberals scored high, conservatives low: "I believe that offenders should be provided with counseling to aid in their rehabilitation"; "What is ethical varies from one situation and society to another."

On other questions, conservatives scored high and liberals low: "People should not do things that are disgusting, even if no one is harmed"; "Respect for authority is something all children need to learn"; "I believe that 'an eye for an eye' is the correct philosophy behind punishing offenders"; "The 'old-fashioned ways' and 'old-fashioned values' still show the best way to live"; "It feels wrong when...a person commits a crime and goes unpunished."

3) THE POOR, REDISTRIBUTION, FAIRNESS:

Liberal high, conservative low: "It feels wrong when . . . an employee who needs their job, is fired"; "I think it's morally wrong that rich children inherit a lot of money while poor children inherit nothing"; "I often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me."

Conservative high, liberal low: "[I place a high value on] safety, harmony, and stability of society, of relationships, and of self"; "[It's desirable when] employees [who] contribute more to the success of the company receive a larger share"; "[I value] social status and prestige, control or dominance over people and resources."

4) MORALS, HEDONISM, SELF-FULFILLMENT, HIERARCHY:

Liberals high, conservatives low: "I see myself as someone who . . . is original, comes up with new ideas"; "Pleasure or sensuous gratification for oneself"; "What is ethical varies from one situation and society to another."

Conservative high, liberal low: "If certain groups stayed in their place, we would have fewer problems;" "People should be loyal to their family members, even when they have done something wrong;" "Respect, commitment, and acceptance of the customs that traditional culture provide"; "[I favor] restraint of actions, inclinations, and impulses likely to upset or harm others and violate social expectations or norms."

Their findings show how profound the chasm is on values questions between liberals and conservatives. Generally speaking, not only do liberals place high importance on peace, mutual understanding, and empathy for those who have difficulty prevailing in competition, they demonstrate concern for equality of outcome, while conservatives place pointedly low or negative importance on such values. 9 On the other side, conservatives believe that the use of force is a legitimate method of conflict resolution across a range of domains, from war to law enforcement to the discipline of children. 10 Conservatives are more likely to believe in an "eye for an eye," are more likely to respect received tradition, and are overwhelmingly committed to the proposition that individuals are responsible for their own economic condition -- all views rejected by liberals. 11

From a different vantage point -- taking data from American National Election Studies (ANES) surveys conducted between 1972 and 2004, the University of Virginia's Nicholas Winter analyzed the words respondents used to describe the two political parties. In "Masculine Republicans and Feminine Democrats: Gender and Americans' Explicit and Implicit Images of the Political Parties," Winter categorized words respondents volunteered as stereotypically "male" or "female:"

[M]asculine men are thought to be active, independent, and decisive; feminine women are thought to be compassionate, devoted to others, emotional, and kind. These core traits are linked with a range of other features, including other traits (masculine men are aggressive, practical, tough, hardworking, and hierarchical; feminine women are gentle, submissive, soft, ladylike, and egalitarian); physical characteristics (masculine men are big, strong, and muscular; feminine women are small, weak, and soft-spoken). 12

This excerpt first appeared at www.theatlantic.com.


Oooh, look! An article having nothing to do with race, per se. Break out the champagne.
 
I've boiled it down to this...Conservatives no longer believe in society, democracy or the U.S. I believe they'd rather step over dead bodies on their way to work than help those who are starving. They've supported leaders who have favored foreign slave labor over American workers (remember Perrot's giant sucking sound?) and they are rich not because conservative ideology had manipulated govt. in their favor but because they believe they are chosen by their God.
 
Millionaires and Billionaires didn't ever get rich by any honorable means. It's all "dirty money". You best believe that.
They fucked over somebody or a whole bunch of somebodies to get where they are.
 
Millionaires and Billionaires didn't ever get rich by any honorable means. It's all "dirty money". You best believe that.
They fucked over somebody or a whole bunch of somebodies to get where they are.

That's for damn sure. The millionaires in the NBA f*cked me over because I should be playing in the league. Instead they just stepped all over me on the way to their millions.
 
That's for damn sure. The millionaires in the NBA f*cked me over because I should be playing in the league. Instead they just stepped all over me on the way to their millions.

Really? Somehow, I believe you wouldn't know what to do with the basketball. Sport figures, in my opinion, are overpaid. Mgmt is grossly overpaid. Better to be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. We already knew.
 
Really? Somehow, I believe you wouldn't know what to do with the basketball. Sport figures, in my opinion, are overpaid. Mgmt is grossly overpaid. Better to be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. We already knew.

Why would I not know what to do with a basketball? The white guy can't play basketball belief? The white men can't jump stereotype?
 
Why would I not know what to do with a basketball? The white guy can't play basketball belief? The white men can't jump stereotype?

No. From the ridiculous notion you stated, that millionaires in the NBA "fucked over you". Can you substantiate that? I'll wait. I don't believe it for one minute. Explain how.
 
No. From the ridiculous notion you stated, that millionaires in the NBA "fucked over you". Can you substantiate that? I'll wait. I don't believe it for one minute. Explain how.

I wanted to play professional basketball as a kid. I'm not in the NBA because I'm not good enough. You stated millionaires got their money by fucking someone over. If NBA players being better than me (or worked harder than me etc. etc.) means I got f*cked over well I got f*cked over.
 
I wanted to play professional basketball as a kid. I'm not in the NBA because I'm not good enough. You stated millionaires got their money by fucking someone over. If NBA players being better than me (or worked harder than me etc. etc.) means I got f*cked over well I got f*cked over.

Totally missed my point. I'm not talking about rock stars, or professional sport figures, who, obviously have "game" or product worth paying for...I was talking about the Romneys and the Koch Bros., and the Mike Milikens, and big business types. Old corporate money, that was founded directly or indirectly as a result of profits from slavery and manipulation.
 
Totally missed my point. I'm not talking about rock stars, or professional sport figures, who, obviously have "game" or product worth paying for...I was talking about the Romneys and the Koch Bros., and the Mike Milikens, and big business types. Old corporate money, that was founded directly or indirectly as a result of profits from slavery and manipulation.

Do you believe there should be legislation passed (if you do what legislation would you pass if you were in charge) to reign in private equity? (I assume when you say Romney you mean the private equity business)
 
Do you believe there should be legislation passed (if you do what legislation would you pass if you were in charge) to reign in private equity? (I assume when you say Romney you mean the private equity business)

Missed my point again. I said all big money was dirty money. Where did I say it needed to be reined in? Now the influence of big money on politics needs to be reined in ( as in the reins of a horse...not the reign of a king, moron).
 
Missed my point again. I said all big money was dirty money. Where did I say it needed to be reined in? Now the influence of big money on politics needs to be reined in ( as in the reins of a horse...not the reign of a king, moron).

Fair enough, I was just asking your opinion to see what you might like done. I wasn't trying to say you said it. My apologies on the mispelling.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thomas-b-edsall/conservatives-vs-liberals_b_1262309.html


The following is an excerpt from The Age of Austerity: How Scarcity Will Remake American Politics.

The contest for power between Democrats and Republicans pits two antithetical value systems against each other; two conflicting concepts of freedom, liberty, fairness, right, and wrong; two mutually exclusive notions of the state, the individual, and the collective good.

A wide range of academic scholarship exploring political belief-formation reveals that those who identify themselves as politically conservative, for example, exhibit distinctive values underpinning their world view and their orientation towards political competition.

Conservatives, argues researcher Philip Tetlock of the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, are less tolerant of compromise; see the world in "us" versus "them" terms; are more willing to use force to gain an advantage; are "more prone to rely on simple (good vs. bad) evaluative rules in interpreting policy issues;" 1 are "motivated to punish violators of social norms (e.g., deviations from traditional norms of sexuality or responsible behavior) and to deter free riders." 2

Some of these conservative values can be discerned in public opinion data.

In one September 2010 survey question, The Pew Research Center asked voters, "If you had to choose, would you rather have a smaller government providing fewer services, or a bigger government providing more services?" White Republican men chose a smaller government by a 92-7 margin and white Republican women made the same choice by an 82-12 margin. Conversely, white Democratic men chose bigger government by a 53-35 margin and white Democratic women by 56-33. This is an ideological gap between Republicans and Democrats of 57 points among white men and 49 points among white women. 3

Along similar lines, Pew asked voters to choose between "Most people who want to get ahead can make it if they're willing to work hard" and "Hard work and determination are no guarantee of success for most people." White Republican men and women both picked "hard work" by decisive margins of 78-21 and 73-24, respectively. White Democratic men and women, in contrast, were far more equivocal, supporting hard work by modest margins of 52-44 and 53-43. 4

These Pew findings demonstrate that the differences of opinion between liberals and conservatives are far greater than the differences in opinion between men and women commonly referred to as the gender gap.


* * *

The Pew questions are designed to test opinion on public policy issues. The strength of the Pew surveys and other comparable, well-designed polls is that the sample is carefully selected to be representative of either the general public or of all voters. The limitation of such surveys is that they are not designed to reveal more subtle distinctions that can be equally or more significant.

This less easily answered question has been explored by a team of academic researchers collaborating at a website -- www.YourMorals.org -- designed to test a variety of theories about the connection between views on morality and politics. Jonathan Haidt and Nicholas Winter of the University of Virginia, and Ravi Iyer of the University of Southern California, have collected and systematized very large numbers of responses to questions designed to elicit new information about political values orientation. Haidt et al. have ranked responses to a set of online public opinion surveys to show where self-described liberal/moderates differ most sharply from conservative/moderates. The strength of the YourMorals.org surveys lies in the large number of respondents; the weakness grows out of the fact that the participants are self-selected, and represent well-educated elites on the left, right, and center, with little representation of the poor, working class, or lower-middle class. 5

The findings published by Haidt et al. powerfully reinforce the paradigm of two roughly equivalent political coalitions: the first, a socially and economically dominant coalition on the right; the second, a coalition on the left composed of relatively disadvantaged (subdominant) voters in alliance with relatively well-educated, well-off, culturally liberal professionals ('information workers,' 'symbol analysts,' 'creatives,' 'knowledge workers,' etc.). 6 The Haidt et. al. data sheds new light on what it means, across a gamut of issues, when someone says he or she is a liberal or a conservative. 7

What kinds of questions and values statements provoke the sharpest divide between left and right? The team looked at responses to 107 questions and found that the most divisive questions included those in the following areas: 8

1) WAR, PEACE, VIOLENCE, EMPATHY WITH THE WORLD:

On key questions and statements in this category, liberals scored high, conservatives low: "I believe peace is extremely important"; "Understanding, appreciation, and protection for the welfare of all people and for nature"; "One of the worst things a person could do is hurt a defenseless animal"; "How close do you feel to people all over the world?"

On other key questions in this area, conservatives scored high, and liberals low: "War is sometimes the best way to solve a conflict"; "There is nothing wrong in getting back at someone who has hurt you."

2) CRIME AND PUNISHMENT; MORAL ELASTICITY; AUTHORITY:

Again, on some questions in this category, liberals scored high, conservatives low: "I believe that offenders should be provided with counseling to aid in their rehabilitation"; "What is ethical varies from one situation and society to another."

On other questions, conservatives scored high and liberals low: "People should not do things that are disgusting, even if no one is harmed"; "Respect for authority is something all children need to learn"; "I believe that 'an eye for an eye' is the correct philosophy behind punishing offenders"; "The 'old-fashioned ways' and 'old-fashioned values' still show the best way to live"; "It feels wrong when...a person commits a crime and goes unpunished."

3) THE POOR, REDISTRIBUTION, FAIRNESS:

Liberal high, conservative low: "It feels wrong when . . . an employee who needs their job, is fired"; "I think it's morally wrong that rich children inherit a lot of money while poor children inherit nothing"; "I often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me."

Conservative high, liberal low: "[I place a high value on] safety, harmony, and stability of society, of relationships, and of self"; "[It's desirable when] employees [who] contribute more to the success of the company receive a larger share"; "[I value] social status and prestige, control or dominance over people and resources."

4) MORALS, HEDONISM, SELF-FULFILLMENT, HIERARCHY:

Liberals high, conservatives low: "I see myself as someone who . . . is original, comes up with new ideas"; "Pleasure or sensuous gratification for oneself"; "What is ethical varies from one situation and society to another."

Conservative high, liberal low: "If certain groups stayed in their place, we would have fewer problems;" "People should be loyal to their family members, even when they have done something wrong;" "Respect, commitment, and acceptance of the customs that traditional culture provide"; "[I favor] restraint of actions, inclinations, and impulses likely to upset or harm others and violate social expectations or norms."

Their findings show how profound the chasm is on values questions between liberals and conservatives. Generally speaking, not only do liberals place high importance on peace, mutual understanding, and empathy for those who have difficulty prevailing in competition, they demonstrate concern for equality of outcome, while conservatives place pointedly low or negative importance on such values. 9 On the other side, conservatives believe that the use of force is a legitimate method of conflict resolution across a range of domains, from war to law enforcement to the discipline of children. 10 Conservatives are more likely to believe in an "eye for an eye," are more likely to respect received tradition, and are overwhelmingly committed to the proposition that individuals are responsible for their own economic condition -- all views rejected by liberals. 11

From a different vantage point -- taking data from American National Election Studies (ANES) surveys conducted between 1972 and 2004, the University of Virginia's Nicholas Winter analyzed the words respondents used to describe the two political parties. In "Masculine Republicans and Feminine Democrats: Gender and Americans' Explicit and Implicit Images of the Political Parties," Winter categorized words respondents volunteered as stereotypically "male" or "female:"

[M]asculine men are thought to be active, independent, and decisive; feminine women are thought to be compassionate, devoted to others, emotional, and kind. These core traits are linked with a range of other features, including other traits (masculine men are aggressive, practical, tough, hardworking, and hierarchical; feminine women are gentle, submissive, soft, ladylike, and egalitarian); physical characteristics (masculine men are big, strong, and muscular; feminine women are small, weak, and soft-spoken). 12

This excerpt first appeared at www.theatlantic.com.


Oooh, look! An article having nothing to do with race, per se. Break out the champagne.
The title of this lop sided point of view should have read: Bigotted, knuckle dragging conservatives vs enlightened, cultured and refined liberals.
 
The title of this lop sided point of view should have read: Bigotted, knuckle dragging conservatives vs enlightened, cultured and refined liberals.

Yes, that would be more accurate.

Thanks for the honesty, I know it wasn't easy.
 
I've boiled it down to this...Conservatives no longer believe in society, democracy or the U.S. I believe they'd rather step over dead bodies on their way to work than help those who are starving. They've supported leaders who have favored foreign slave labor over American workers (remember Perrot's giant sucking sound?) and they are rich not because conservative ideology had manipulated govt. in their favor but because they believe they are chosen by their God.

Do you help out the poor people on your way to work? Do you volunteer and give to charity? Spent much time around a food bank or a soup kitchen? Or do you let conservatives do these things, and rely on government to pick-up your end of the slack?
 
I believe they'd rather step over dead bodies on their way to work than help those who are starving.

Nice theory, but it is not supported by facts. Numerous studies have revealed that conservatives are more charitable than liberals, despite the liberals having higher income.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

I give a minimum of 13% of my gross income to organizations such as Northwest Harvest, the Union Gospel Mission, and Compassion International, all of which feed, clothe, and care for the poor in some capacity. I also volunteer at an organization that helps homeless people develop job skills. What do YOU do for the poor, asshole? Voting for bigger government doesn't count.
 
Clownk is a typical liberal - he thinks the government is the ONLY entity capable of helping the poor, and therefore anyone who votes against big government wants to starve homeless people and push grandma off a cliff.
 
Clownk is a typical liberal - he thinks the government is the ONLY entity capable of helping the poor, and therefore anyone who votes against big government wants to starve homeless people and push grandma off a cliff.

You are working on the symtoms exclusively, while you blame him of exclusively working on the causes, without knowing whether it is even true or not.
 
Do you help out the poor people on your way to work? Do you volunteer and give to charity? Spent much time around a food bank or a soup kitchen? Or do you let conservatives do these things, and rely on government to pick-up your end of the slack?

I know this is the question that is often asked by some on both sides...and I would venture the response is close to the same by those on both sides. I have worked events and fund raisers like soup kitchens (we never actually served soup) and meal preparation shoulder to shoulder with people much more liberal than me as well as people who were much more conservative than me. We had a group of guys, I guess you could call us "Chainsaws and Trucks" who went around during the aftermath of an ice-storm cutting fallen trees out of people's drives, making sure they were OK and getting generators (our own on loan) to a couple of folks on oxygen machines while the electricity was out for over 10 days. Those guys were as varied a group as to thier political leanings as you can get....and they were both democrats and republicans.

So my point of all of this is that there are those of both politica bents who will pitch in and do what they can when they can to help others or accomplish something good and there are those who will do nothing, all the while griping about the government not doing enough or that the government shouldn't do anything. The last part of the previous sentence describes the political landscape today....and sadly it doesn't look like it is going to change any time soon.
 
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