Should Ronald Reagan Be Added to Mount Rushmore?

Mott the Hoople said:
Uhhhh....if it wasn't for this little thing called World War II you might have a point. As it was FDR lead us from a transition from an economically depressed world power to a nuclear age super power. I would agree with you that if FDR was evaluated on his economic policies during the Great Depression alone it would be very controversial to classify him as one of the greats. His leadership during the war, like Lincolns, was inspired and like Lincoln he made the ultimate sacrifice. There can be no argument that durring WWII there were lots of losers. The Soviets lost between 20 and 40 million people. The great colonial empires of France and Britain were eviscerated and Germany and Japan were smoking ruins. The US came out the clear cut winner of WWII as the worlds most powerful nation both economically and militarilly and we remain so to this day. FDR had no small part in that achievement.
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The New Deal is NOT controversial. There has been an attempt by radicals on the right, you know SF's friends, so paint it that way, but historians do not view history through the lenses of Glenn Beck.

There is no controversy that FDR is in the top three Presidents in our nation's history for his entire Presidency. And that's even with his spectacular civil rights failure (the interment camps).

He is one of our greatest presidents and only partisan hacks claim otherwise. I can't believe anyone would even want to have this "debate'. There is no debate among serious people, period. Anyone debating this, is unserious.

In fact, might I say: There is a Consensus!

Oh, that's right SF!
 
Darla said:
The New Deal is NOT controversial. There has been an attempt by radicals on the right, you know SF's friends, so paint it that way, but historians do not view history through the lenses of Glenn Beck.

There is no controversy that FDR is in the top three Presidents in our nation's history for his entire Presidency. And that's even with his spectacular civil rights failure (the interment camps).

He is one of our greatest presidents and only partisan hacks claim otherwise. I can't believe anyone would even want to have this "debate'. There is no debate among serious people, period. Anyone debating this, is unserious.

In fact, might I say: There is a Consensus!

Oh, that's right SF!
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I didn't say the New Deal was controversial (though it certainly was at that time). I said it would be controversial to classify FDR as one of the truly great presidents based upon his economic policy during the Great Depression alone. FDR was a very good President during the great depression and many of his policies had far reaching consequences, for the better, and to this day but it took WWII to show his brilliance as a war time commander in chief that propells FDR in to the realm of greatness. With out WWII FDR would have been a very good President but with his leadership during both the War and the Great Depression he becomes a truly great President.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I didn't say the New Deal was controversial (though it certainly was at that time). I said it would be controversial to classify FDR as one of the truly great presidents based upon his economic policy during the Great Depression alone. FDR was a very good President during the great depression and many of his policies had far reaching consequences, for the better, and to this day but it took WWII to show his brilliance as a war time commander in chief that propells FDR in to the realm of greatness. With out WWII FDR would have been a very good President but with his leadership during both the War and the Great Depression he becomes a truly great President.
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a

We'll never know if his leadership during the Great Depression, the New Deal, including the Social Security act, would have put him the top 3, or top 5 even. The fact is that the New Deal was so broadly popular, and so successful, that Republicans dared not run for office against it for decades. There was broad consensus on it, even though a large part of that consensus was faked.

Anyway, what I"m saying is that it doesn't matter what you think, it doesn't matter what I think, it's simply fact to state that FDR has long been rated in the top three of all US presidents in history.

THat's not going to be undone on a message board by anonymous posters. It's amazing to me how the right will argue anything and actually believe they have standing! Uh, no. You can argue anything you want, any ole jackass can, but when you've got 70 years of historians, bipartisan, rating him in the top three, it's an exercise in nonsense.
 
Whose going to pay for it in these days of cuts? I don't think our nation should think of stupid ideas like this when we need so many other things, like upgrading our infrastructure.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... in terms of accomplishment what exactly did FDR do?

Biggest pro was Glass Steagall (which Clinton repealed... the dumbass).

Biggest con was ten years of depression.
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Summing up, after his first 100 days in office FDR didn't anything of consequence and the depression that began in 1929 and ended the month he took office was all his fault.

That's awesome.
 
It's just another way for the right to alter reality. They have been doing this for years now, and I think they have begun to believe their own bullshit. Seriously, I wouldn't even enter into a debate over this.

There is no debate.

THey are sore because FDR has been rated as one of the top three presidents in US history, and ronald reagan hasn't been. Butt hurt. And in groups among themselves I suppose they can convince themselves of any ole thing. But out in society claims like these need to be greeted with laughter.

Period.
 
Darla said:
a

We'll never know if his leadership during the Great Depression, the New Deal, including the Social Security act, would have put him the top 3, or top 5 even. The fact is that the New Deal was so broadly popular, and so successful, that Republicans dared not run for office against it for decades. There was broad consensus on it, even though a large part of that consensus was faked.

Anyway, what I"m saying is that it doesn't matter what you think, it doesn't matter what I think, it's simply fact to state that FDR has long been rated in the top three of all US presidents in history.

THat's not going to be undone on a message board by anonymous posters. It's amazing to me how the right will argue anything and actually believe they have standing! Uh, no. You can argue anything you want, any ole jackass can, but when you've got 70 years of historians, bipartisan, rating him in the top three, it's an exercise in nonsense.
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Yes. I agree but keep in mind, these things have to be explained to conservatives over and over again. Since they watch Fox News, facts and truth are very abstract concepts to them. My problem is I keep forgetting to use only 1 syllable words in my explanations. ;)
 
Rana said:
Whose going to pay for it in these days of cuts? I don't think our nation should think of stupid ideas like this when we need so many other things, like upgrading our infrastructure.
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Much of which dates back to....guess who? The FDR Administration!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Yes. I agree but keep in mind, these things have to be explained to conservatives over and over again. Since they watch Fox News, facts and truth are very abstract concepts to them. My problem is I keep forgetting to use only 1 syllable words in my explanations. ;)
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It helps to know chimpanzee sign language! Although some of them are so effed up the chimps look at each other when they are talking as if to say 'is it me, or does this guy make no sense?"

I myself plead to not understanding the language of the chimp, but I hear that it's how a lot of them communicate!
 
Does anybody know why they never finished those statues on Mount Rushmore? Are there any plans afoot to complete them?

220px-Gutzon_Borglum's_model_of_Mt._Rushmore_memorial.jpg
 
Mott the Hoople said:
A community of historians who are collectively engaged in investigating and interpreting the past as a matter of disciplined learned practice.
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So in other words, their opinion is just that... the same as anyone who studies history and states what they think. It is completely subjective and highly influenced by the belief system of the respective historians.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I didn't say the New Deal was controversial (though it certainly was at that time). I said it would be controversial to classify FDR as one of the truly great presidents based upon his economic policy during the Great Depression alone. FDR was a very good President during the great depression and many of his policies had far reaching consequences, for the better, and to this day but it took WWII to show his brilliance as a war time commander in chief that propells FDR in to the realm of greatness. With out WWII FDR would have been a very good President but with his leadership during both the War and the Great Depression he becomes a truly great President.
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Enlighten us... what 'brilliance' did FDR show during WWII as CIC?
 
Dungheap said:
Summing up, after his first 100 days in office FDR didn't anything of consequence and the depression that began in 1929 and ended the month he took office was all his fault.

That's awesome.
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ROFLMAO.... the Great Depression ended in 1933? That has to be the lamest attempt to re-write history EVER.

As for the 'the Depression was all his fault'... that has to be one of the lamest attempts at a straw man EVER. Where did I state anything even remotely close to that? I stated that for 10 years of FDR, we were in the Great Depression. From the time he took office in 1933 until after Pearl Harbor in 1941, the Great Depression engulfed the US (and most of the world). It was not until the military buildup in 1942 that unemployment in the country plunged back from double digits and the depression ended.

While the economy began improving from the bottom, it didn't reach pre-depression GNP until the WWII ramp up.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
His leadership during the war, like Lincolns, was inspired and like Lincoln he made the ultimate sacrifice. There can be no argument that durring WWII there were lots of losers. The Soviets lost between 20 and 40 million people. The great colonial empires of France and Britain were eviscerated and Germany and Japan were smoking ruins. The US came out the clear cut winner of WWII as the worlds most powerful nation both economically and militarilly and we remain so to this day. FDR had no small part in that achievement.
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As for the above... saying FDR had no small part in the above? Ya think that might be because the war was not fought on OUR soil, but it WAS fought on all of theirs? He had no part in the Soviet losses and the devastation to their country, yet the Soviets ALSO emerged as a super power. You seem to be forgetting that.

France, Britain and Germany were devastated by the war. Obviously Germany lost so their return to power was restricted by the victors. FDR had little to do with any of that.

So do elaborate on what you think FDR did in the above situations, because I am not seeing it. What did he do that showed 'brilliance' as you put it?

Also: seriously? did you just state that 'he made the ultimate sacrifice' like Lincoln? FDR was NOT assassinated. He did not die because of what he did in office. He was sick before he took office in 1933. He died of a massive hemorrhage. What exactly are you trying to suggest here Mutt?
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
He recognised the threat from Nazi Germany at a time when the US was in an isolationist phase.
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LMAO... that is brilliance to you? A 'brilliant' leader would be able to convince others of what he saw. A 'brilliant' leader would not have needed Pearl Harbor to convince Americans that was was necessary. A 'brilliant' leader would have taken action if he truly believed as you say he did. He would have convinced Congress to declare war. So if he did believe as you say, then he was inept... not brilliant... at conveying that to Congress.
 
Superfreak said:
ROFLMAO.... the Great Depression ended in 1933? That has to be the lamest attempt to re-write history EVER.

As for the 'the Depression was all his fault'... that has to be one of the lamest attempts at a straw man EVER. Where did I state anything even remotely close to that? I stated that for 10 years of FDR, we were in the Great Depression. From the time he took office in 1933 until after Pearl Harbor in 1941, the Great Depression engulfed the US (and most of the world). It was not until the military buildup in 1942 that unemployment in the country plunged back from double digits and the depression ended.

While the economy began improving from the bottom, it didn't reach pre-depression GNP until the WWII ramp up.
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The Depression ended March 1933. Look it up. Of course, the effects of the Depression were felt in the years that followed, but that doesn't change the fact that the Depression ended in March 1933. And GDP recovered to pre-Depression levels by 1937 (at which point fiscal and monetary policy were tightened, leading to another recession).

And I inferred your meaning from the words that you posted. Apologies if I inferred something you did not intend to imply.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... that is brilliance to you? A 'brilliant' leader would be able to convince others of what he saw. A 'brilliant' leader would not have needed Pearl Harbor to convince Americans that was was necessary. A 'brilliant' leader would have taken action if he truly believed as you say he did. He would have convinced Congress to declare war. So if he did believe as you say, then he was inept... not brilliant... at conveying that to Congress.
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Good grief, there was a very significant faction in Congress that was sympathetic to Nazi Germany and even more that hated the British with a vengeance. There was even a plan to invade Canada before WW2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red
 
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