Government run healthcare... a Greek tragedy.

Aoxomoxoa said:
Why do you Americans always need to attach a label to something all the time? Universal healthcare is an essential for a modern country, it should just be a utility like water and electricity.
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not sure how it is in merry ole england, but here in texas our neighborhoods are practically owned by the power companies. If they didn't make enough money, they can request, and 110% sure they will get it, a power rate hike all in the name of maintaining profitability. Is this how we want our medical care systems?
 
apple0154 said:
The health of the citizens is not unlimited government. Just as that excerpt mentions defence while it does not specifically mention nuclear missiles or radar equipment it mentions general welfare without specifically mentioning medical care. Besides there being nothing worth mentioning in regards to medical care any intrusive procedures invariably resulted in more damage; ie: infections.

The absurdity is believing the Founding Fathers would have preferred people die rather than have access to available medical care.
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After throwing off the yoke of an oppresive government, it is absurd to believe that the Founding Fathers would want to place the people in a position where they are forced into another one.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
not sure how it is in merry ole england, but here in texas our neighborhoods are practically owned by the power companies. If they didn't make enough money, they can request, and 110% sure they will get it, a power rate hike all in the name of maintaining profitability. Is this how we want our medical care systems?
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I'm willing to be things weren't that way until Republicans DEREGULATED the energy industry.
 
apple0154 said:
What does "promote" mean to you? Why would the Founding Fathers desire to "form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty" but when it came to medical care say, "To hell with the people. Let them suffer"? The Founding Fathers "promoted" or worked at establishing those things for the benefit of the people. Why, when it came to health, would one expect the Founding Fathers to ignore that? What is more important than ones health? How can one enjoy any of those things the Founding Fathers desired for the people if the people are ill and suffering? If they had known of a way to increase ones lifespan by 20 or more years how can anyone believe the Founding Fathers would have discounted that, felt it was unimportant?

"We're going to form the best country we can, offer you the best opportunities to enjoy life but when it comes to dealing with illness and premature death we're not going to get involved." Such thinking is beyond bizarre.
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I found that the following comments would seem to give the best interpretation:

The Founding Fathers said in the preamble that one reason for establishing the Constitution was to “promote the general welfare.” What they meant was that the Constitution and powers granted to the federal government were not to favor special interest groups or particular classes of people. There were to be no privileged individuals or groups in society. Neither minorities nor the majority was to be favored. Rather, the Constitution would promote the “general welfare” by ensuring a free society where free, self-responsible individuals - rich and poor, bankers and shopkeepers, employers and employees, farmers and blacksmiths - would enjoy “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” rights expressed in the Declaration of Independence.

Quoting the Tenth Amendment, Jefferson wrote: “I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That ‘all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people.’ To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition.”

Writing about the “general welfare” clause in 1791, Thomas Jefferson saw the danger of misinterpreting the Constitution. The danger in the hands of Senators and Congressmen was “that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.”
 
DamnYankee said:
You've ignored the Constitution and the Federalist papers stating the Founders intent, and now are using emotional arguments to try and save your case.
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Add in that he's made several comments that try to make it appear that he is part of the populace of the United States, when he's let it be known that he's from Kanada.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
I'm willing to be things weren't that way until Republicans DEREGULATED the energy industry.
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you'd lose that bet. much like most northeastern states are democrats and democrat lites, texas is nearly all conservatives and conservative lite, save for a few in the major cities. even then, those are bought and paid for by the power companies.
 
apple0154 said:
Oppressive? Offering/delivering health care is oppressive?
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The way that ObamaCare went about it, was oppressive and that does seem to be what the argument is really about.
No one has said that Health Care can't be improved; but the objection is forcing everyone to pay into something, just because the Government says they should.

What would you say if the UN decided that since Canada promotes it's health care as being so great, that anyone in the world can use it; but only the Canadians have to pay for it?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I found that the following comments would seem to give the best interpretation:

The Founding Fathers said in the preamble that one reason for establishing the Constitution was to “promote the general welfare.” What they meant was that the Constitution and powers granted to the federal government were not to favor special interest groups or particular classes of people. There were to be no privileged individuals or groups in society. Neither minorities nor the majority was to be favored. Rather, the Constitution would promote the “general welfare” by ensuring a free society where free, self-responsible individuals - rich and poor, bankers and shopkeepers, employers and employees, farmers and blacksmiths - would enjoy “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” rights expressed in the Declaration of Independence.

Quoting the Tenth Amendment, Jefferson wrote: “I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That ‘all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people.’ To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition.”

Writing about the “general welfare” clause in 1791, Thomas Jefferson saw the danger of misinterpreting the Constitution. The danger in the hands of Senators and Congressmen was “that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.”
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And where precisely did that "interpretation" originate?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you'd lose that bet. much like most northeastern states are democrats and democrat lites, texas is nearly all conservatives and conservative lite, save for a few in the major cities. even then, those are bought and paid for by the power companies.
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And which party favored dergeulation?

I live in Texas too, and can attest to the yearly rounds of ridiculous rate increases energy providers try to foist on consumers, all under the guise of "rising costs".


Deregulation of the energy industry and the insurance industry has led to unjustified rate increases and price gouging right here in good ol "Conservative" Texas!
 
ZappasGuitar said:
And where precisely did that "interpretation" originate?
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So let me make sure I understand this:
Apple can throw out his opinion and interpretations and you just swallow them like rice pudding; but I'm required to explain the ones I use.

Go back to what you do best and that's reducing the twinkie population.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
So let me make sure I understand this:
Apple can throw out his opinion an interpretations and you just swallow them like rice pudding; but I'm required to explain the ones I use.

Go back to what you do best and that's reducing the twinkie population.
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So even when a question is asked with civility, you refuse to answer...just as I thought.


Gee...all you had to do was post the link to the page your "interpretation" came from.


...but you couldn't even do that one simple thing for someone on the other side of the political aisle...understood.


And for good measure, my civility is met with another fat joke...more "Christian" kindness in all it's glory!
 
ZappasGuitar said:
And which party favored dergeulation?

I live in Texas too, and can attest to the yearly rounds of ridiculous rate increases energy providers try to foist on consumers, all under the guise of "rising costs".


Deregulation of the energy industry and the insurance industry has led to unjustified rate increases and price gouging right here in good ol "Conservative" Texas!
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since you live in texas, you know that the republican majority deregulated the power industry, but they did not do it alone.
 
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