Government run healthcare... a Greek tragedy.

[Bonestorm]

Also... for those bitching about the size of Greece... take a look at California. They are doing exactly what Dung wants... raising taxes and continuing to promise their constituents the world. How is that going for them?

You really do have quite a way with stupid comparisons. You really have to try to achieve this level of dumbassery.

 

[Rune]

You said they had a higher morality than him. Yet your example is 'share or die'... so yes... you definitely said that.

Let's pretend context doesn't matter. Then you would have a point. Since context does matter though, here is the context in which I made my statement;

Originally Posted by SmarterThanYou
if you're fine with my property being stolen, i'm fine with you dying because you can't afford medical care. If you won't protect all of my rights, why should I give a damn about yours?
Monkeys that find and don't share food are beaten to death by the others monkeys. Monkeys have a more advanced morality than you do.

 

[DamnYankee]

Dune, you got pwned. Don't make it worse by repeating your stupid moral judgements.

 

[Rune]

Since no one said they were fine with stealing STY's rights, unless he was fine with them dying from lack of medical care, then the monkeys DO have a better morality than him.

 

[Rune]

Dune, you got pwned. Don't make it worse by repeating your stupid moral judgements.

Bullshit.

"If you won't protect ALL of my rights, why should I give a damn about yours."

In other words, some of my rights were taken, so poor people don't deserve access to healthcare.

Or, the lowest common denominator; I am a selfish prick who doesn't care about others.

 

[Bfgrn]

LMAO.... yet you idiots constantly try to compare the US to individual European countries. As a whole the EU is about the same size as the US as far as GDP and population.

Yet you compare the other European countries to us and proclaim their universal systems could work here.

Of course it could work here, because it is based on sound economic theory. The 'for profit' private insurance we have now is not based on sound economic theory. Anyone with a hint of understanding of a market transaction can see that the patient does not have leverage in the transaction. The incentive for the patient is to get the best care. The incentive for the insurance provider is to find a way to deny care to increase profit.

And insurance corporations know they can't compete with a government plan. The Medicare program that we have is a government-run program that has administrative expenses around three percent. Private insurance corporations administrative expense is around 20-30%.

America ranks number one in cost per GDP but ranks 17th out of 19 industrialized countries in mortality rates. The top 15 countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment. The bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship.

America’s Health Care System at the Bottom of the Heap

Your argument is not based on any economic theory. It is solely based on FEAR.

The freak: "The government is not trying to protect your interest. They are trying to gain control over you in yet another aspect of your life. That is what you are fighting for. You are not fighting for actual REFORM."


No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.
Edmund Burke

 

[Rune]

SuperShill?

 

[Damocles]

Actually, no. I'm not at all confused. Our government pays substantially more than the Greek government, and many others than provide universal healthcare, as a percentage of GDP and per capita. Look it up. And then there is private spending on top of it. It's insane.

I did look it up, you are confusing total cost with government cost.

 

[Bonestorm]

I did look it up, you are confusing total cost with government cost.

In 2007, the last year for which I have data (through the OECD), the Greek government spent about half the U.S. government spent on a per capita basis and Greece covered everyone.

On the GDP figures, I did make a mistake. In 2008, the Greek government spent about 6.2% of GDP on healthcare. The U.S. government spent 7.4% of GDP on healthcare. Our government outspent the Greek government by a wide margin and covered a whole hell of a less of the population.

If you add in private spending, total health expenditures (both public and private) in Greece were 9.2% of GDP. In the U.S., total health expenditures were 15.9% of GDP. In short, the U.S. government spends a whole hell of a lot more money to cover a whole hell of a lot less of its population.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Since no one said they were fine with stealing STY's rights, unless he was fine with them dying from lack of medical care, then the monkeys DO have a better morality than him.

maybe you missed my first reply with watermarks quoted statement?

if you're fine with Americans not getting healthcare, I'm fine with your property getting stolen. If you won't protect your fellow Americans from one set of disasters, why do they have any responsibility to protect you from another? You have forfeited all social privileges by being such a shitty fucking human being.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Of course it could work here, because it is based on sound economic theory. The 'for profit' private insurance we have now is not based on sound economic theory. Anyone with a hint of understanding of a market transaction can see that the patient does not have leverage in the transaction. The incentive for the patient is to get the best care. The incentive for the insurance provider is to find a way to deny care to increase profit.

And insurance corporations know they can't compete with a government plan. The Medicare program that we have is a government-run program that has administrative expenses around three percent. Private insurance corporations administrative expense is around 20-30%.

America ranks number one in cost per GDP but ranks 17th out of 19 industrialized countries in mortality rates. The top 15 countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment. The bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship.

America’s Health Care System at the Bottom of the Heap

Your argument is not based on any economic theory. It is solely based on FEAR.

The freak: "The government is not trying to protect your interest. They are trying to gain control over you in yet another aspect of your life. That is what you are fighting for. You are not fighting for actual REFORM."


No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.
Edmund Burke

pure unadulterated bullshit.

 

[apple0154]

now we officially know that you have no clue about economics and business practices.

Basic medical care is not supposed to be a business. Try to grasp that. Just like people work in the Welfare Office or Employment Insurance Office. They are providing a service and getting a salary. The receptionist or the nurse at the hospital are not businesses onto themselves. It's not Nurse Betty, LLC. Or Nurse Betty, Incorporated.

 

[Bfgrn]

pure unadulterated bullshit.

I challenge you to show me where it is bullshit. I can provide facts, you can emote.

 

[apple0154]

Schools are mandated by every state constitution. The military is mandated by the federal constitution. Local parks are mandated by local municipal charters. It's called "a system of laws".

And there are National Parks. Like Yosemite. And talking about Yosemite check out the following. The best part is at 2:50.

 

[apple0154]

If "it", whatever "it" is you want is so important, then amend your local charter, state or federal constitution. Don't lie about what the Constitution says.

Don't ignore the Preamble. "It states in general terms, and courts have referred to it as reliable evidence of, the Founding Fathers' intentions regarding the Constitution's meaning and what they hoped the Constitution would achieve."

Why are you going against the Founding Fathers' intentions?

 

[apple0154]

They probably do. So would I, having planned for such economic disasters. What's your point?

My point is there's money in Greece.

 

[apple0154]

You've ignored the Constitution and the Federalist papers stating the Founders intent, and now are using emotional arguments to try and save your case.

Not emotional arguments. Common sense arguments. To believe the Founding Fathers went to all the trouble to "design" a country that offered people a better life but they wouldn't have cared if people needlessly suffered and died is the most absurd argument one can make.

 

[Rune]

maybe you missed my first reply with watermarks quoted statement?

Maybe you missed the if used by Watermark;

The entitlement mentality in this nation is sickening. No, if you're fine with Americans not getting healthcare, I'm fine with your property getting stolen.

He didn't say he was fine with your property getting stolen. He said he was fine with it IF you are fine with americans not getting healthcare.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I challenge you to show me where it is bullshit. I can provide facts, you can emote.

your first two sentences make it bullshit.

Of course it could work here, because it is based on sound economic theory. The 'for profit' private insurance we have now is not based on sound economic theory

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Maybe you missed the if used by Watermark;



He didn't say he was fine with your property getting stolen. He said he was fine with it IF you are fine with americans not getting healthcare.

and it sounds like you and watermark aren't too far away from libertarianism.