Obama Officially Worse Than Carter

Dungheap said:
The interesting thing about the "Obama worse than Carter" spin is that it isn't because Obama' approval rating has dropped all that significantly over the past few weeks, but that Carter's approval rating jumped almost 20 points from November 1979 to December January 1980 in response to the Iran hostage situation.

So, yes, it's is technically true that Obama has a worse approval rating than Carter at this point in his presidency, but so did Bush I and Clinton. Reagan was tied. Because Carter's approval rating was uncharacteristically high.
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Why do you always have to be posting these kinds of things and ruining the meme of the day? It's so factual of you.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Can I just get this straight? Are you saying that Reagan didn't send arms secretly and illegally to Iran?
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Well, first, if he was saying that, would you require any sort of evidence? And if so - you've misunderstood him. He definitely did not mean to say that. He was just being ironic. He was just kidding! He was just playing devil's advocate. He was just trying to get a debate going!
 
DamnYankee said:
Cite. :D
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1. Plaintiffs, the American Historical Association, Hugh Davis
Graham, Stanley I. Kutler, the Organization of American Historians, the
National Security Archive, Public Citizen, Inc., and the Reporters
Committee for Freedom of the Press bring this action under the
Administrative Procedure Act ("APA"), 5 U.S.C. '' 701 et seq., under their
nonstatutory right to judicial review of unlawful executive action, and
under the Presidential Records Act ("PRA"), 44 U.S.C. '' 2201 et seq., to
obtain a declaratory judgment that the Archivist of the United States and
the National Archives and Records Administration ("NARA") must administer
the Presidential Records Act without regard to the terms of Executive Order
No. 13,233 (the "Bush Order"), and to compel the release of presidential
materials of former President Ronald Reagan that are in the custody of NARA
and are being withheld in violation of the PRA.

http://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/access/complaint.txt

And

... in a White House memo[5] dated March 23, 2001, the Counsel to the President conveyed the following to U.S Archivist John W. Carlin:

Section 2(b) of Executive Order 12667, issued by former President Ronald Reagan on January 16, 1989, requires the Archivist of the United States to delay release of Presidential records at the instruction of the current President. On behalf of the President, I instruct you to extend for 90 days (until June 21, 2001) the time in which President Bush may claim a constitutionally based privilege over the Presidential records that former President Reagan, acting under Section 2204(a) of Title 4, has protected from disclosure for the 12 years since the end of his Presidency. This directive applies as well to the Vice Presidential records of former Vice President George H.W. Bush.


Executive Order 13233
 
christiefan915 said:
Respected reagan for what? His foreign relations expertise while governor of Cali?
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Because they knew he would kick their asses.

christiefan915 said:
1. Plaintiffs, the American Historical Association, Hugh Davis
Graham, Stanley I. Kutler, the Organization of American Historians, the
National Security Archive, Public Citizen, Inc., and the Reporters
Committee for Freedom of the Press bring this action under the
Administrative Procedure Act ("APA"), 5 U.S.C. '' 701 et seq., under their
nonstatutory right to judicial review of unlawful executive action, and
under the Presidential Records Act ("PRA"), 44 U.S.C. '' 2201 et seq., to
obtain a declaratory judgment that the Archivist of the United States and
the National Archives and Records Administration ("NARA") must administer
the Presidential Records Act without regard to the terms of Executive Order
No. 13,233 (the "Bush Order"), and to compel the release of presidential
materials of former President Ronald Reagan that are in the custody of NARA
and are being withheld in violation of the PRA.

http://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/access/complaint.txt

And

... in a White House memo[5] dated March 23, 2001, the Counsel to the President conveyed the following to U.S Archivist John W. Carlin:

Section 2(b) of Executive Order 12667, issued by former President Ronald Reagan on January 16, 1989, requires the Archivist of the United States to delay release of Presidential records at the instruction of the current President. On behalf of the President, I instruct you to extend for 90 days (until June 21, 2001) the time in which President Bush may claim a constitutionally based privilege over the Presidential records that former President Reagan, acting under Section 2204(a) of Title 4, has protected from disclosure for the 12 years since the end of his Presidency. This directive applies as well to the Vice Presidential records of former Vice President George H.W. Bush.


Executive Order 13233
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And?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sure you did, in the comment I quoted when I started this conversation.....
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Yes, the official negotiations to free the hostages were all done by the Carter admin. Meanwhile Reagan's people were negotiating secretly with the Iranians to delay the release of the hostages until Reagan was elected. In return, the Iranians got F-14 spare parts which they desperately needed for the war with Iraq. Clear enough now?
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Yes, the official negotiations to free the hostages were all done by the Carter admin. Meanwhile Reagan's people were negotiating secretly with the Iranians to delay the release of the hostages until Reagan was elected. In return, the Iranians got F-14 spare parts which they desperately needed for the war with Iraq. Clear enough now?
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you can't have it both ways....either
1) Reagan's "secret negotiations" were what it took to get the hostages released...or
2) Carter had done everything necessary to get the hostages released but Reagan got credit for it.....

I understand simple logic is required to understand that, but perhaps you can find a schoolchild to explain it to you......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you can't have it both ways....either
1) Reagan's "secret negotiations" were what it took to get the hostages released...or
2) Carter had done everything necessary to get the hostages released but Reagan got credit for it.....

I understand simple logic is required to understand that, but perhaps you can find a schoolchild to explain it to you......
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Simple is the operative word here. Carter ruled out illegal arm sales in the negotiations, whilst Reagan was offering them to the Iranians in secret. If you want to be pedantic, and I know you do, you could call that negotiation. I prefer to call it treasonable and cynical behaviour, which is obviously why you have no problem with it.

Clinton was nearly booted out of office for lying, yet he is Reagan doing exactly that on national TV.

 
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Aoxomoxoa said:
Simple is the operative word here. Carter ruled out illegal arm sales in the negotiations, whilst Reagan was offering them to the Iranians in secret. If you want to be pedantic, and I know you do, you could call that negotiation. I prefer to call it treasonable and cynical behaviour, which is obviously why you have no problem with it.
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Yet the American people re-elected Reagan with a historic landslide. What a bunch of idiots. LOL.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Simple is the operative word here. Carter ruled out illegal arm sales in the negotiations, whilst Reagan was offering them to the Iranians in secret. If you want to be pedantic, and I know you do, you could call that negotiation. I prefer to call it treasonable and cynical behaviour, which is obviously why you have no problem with it.

Clinton was nearly booted out of office for lying, yet he is Reagan doing exactly that on national TV.

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Where specifically is the quid pro quo?
 
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DamnYankee said:
Where specifically is the quid pro quo?
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Why are you asking me, it's all there on the Internet? The initial promise of F-14 spare parts was specifically designed to influence the outcome of the 1980 election. The later sales were to provide finance for the Contras in Nicaragua.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Why are you asking me, it's all there on the Internet? The initial promise of F-14 spare parts was specifically designed to influence the outcome of the 1980 election. The later sales were to provide finance for the Contras in Nicaragua.
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Carter was such a bastard.....I can't believe he did such a thing.....
 
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