Free Markets. Success or failure?

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wiseones2cents

Verified User
I dont understand so maybe you republicans can explain this to me. You are all pro capitalist(Greed), you are pro giving tax exemptions to corporations that are using that money to create jobs out side of America, and then blame Obama for destroying the middle class?LOL Can you people really be that clueless? Has fox news spun your head so much you cannot see what is happening here???

Someone said that (NWO)Obama is destroying the world's(Americas) middle class. Ummmmm American corporations part of the NWO are destroying the middle class by outsourcing jobs to China. But not in the world.

China and India's middle class are rising rapidly.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...d_on_tabl.html

And look at Europe as a result. Shameful.

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-considering...WExYTFi;_ylv=3

I think their may be a Protest in Europe soon!


Now I said that could be a good thing, if China and India became these massive consumers. Think about it. America was a massive consumer with less then 300 million(at the time) and they were consuming products from all over the world keeping many countires economies afloat(until they got too greedy).

If China and India with their combined 2+ billion consumers began importing, that could be beneficial. At the same time I do not like My country's economic prosperity to be dependent on another.

But China has been neglectful to bridge the trade deficit gap(being a protectionist), but is China alone to blame? You think those American corporations enjoying huge profit margins do not want the gravy train to keep flowing?

China has agreed to buy 900,000 metric tons of American corn for reserves. Its a start but not enough.

I believe China is going to have a massive market in the Solar power industry. And I dont mind because they will provide affordable clean energy to the world. But at the same time they have to give some back. Buy more exports.
 
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I believe it has been a failure.

We should blame outsourcing and greedy corporations.(1st step. I think the Gov should step in but if not?Boycott all companies outsourcing work and those who are registered over seas). Gov and congress for allowing it to happen right under their noses when they should have known better but they are also investing in on the game(Most likely via the stock market!) Bush holds MAJOR responsibility for sending American debt wayyy into the red. Him and his cronies have alot to answer to!

Wall street manipulation of which the wealthy own 90% of the stocks is just another way for the rich to put their hands in the pockets of the honest hard working North America.

And I think wall street is to blame also since shareholders encourage corps to move off shore to increase their investments!

As far as big banks? That would depend what you mean by big banks. Those people who are responsible for racking up the deficit and leaving the tax payer with the bill( via debt, interest inflation) is unacceptable!

If you dont have a job? Blame greedy corporations, blame the sell out government, and blame yourselves for remaining silent!! I think Americans that were loosing jobs were screaming protectionism(Buy American), but the lure of cheap Chinese imports was hard to resist when so many people are living pay check to paycheck, but they shot themselves in the foot.

If you were not aware of what was going on you are forgiven, but to those that now recognize that the corps are exporting America's wealth with the blessing of the gov, they should be screaming at the top of their lungs!

It is clear these corps put their profits in front of their patriotic duty and they should be ashamed to call themselves Americans.

P.S. Yes the Truth is coming out and I hope and pray that we take our countries back from the Corporate Mafias. Because that is exactly how America is being run. Mob style. I guess the mafia did legitimize after all........They seem to be great at the capitalist game with all the income from illegal gains being pumped into the system that no honest man can compete against.
 
The Dude said:
Obviously you are poor/dumb.
Capitalism won't work for you if you have no capital and aren't educated.
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Ahhhhh spoken like a true capitalist pig eating at the pig trough. I am neither poor nor dumb.

Though the most common tactic of unintellectual people like this is, if you cant debate? Attack the character of your opponent.lol Is this what we are witnessing here?

Buddy stop smoking. You may save the last few brain cells you have.

Let me know when you have an actual argument.
 
You do realize that TARP, and these "free trade agreements" are both not "Free Trade" by any definition that I learned in economics class, right? When we give "most favored" status to nations that put tariffs on our goods while we refuse to charge tariffs... that isn't "free trade" it is government mismanagement.

TARP is government welfare to corporations that would otherwise have failed. The rules that required them to make loans to people who could not afford it, then allowed them to bundle them and rate them as AAA? Also not "free market"...

You label something a failure that has never been tried. It is government mismanagement that caused this failure. Not "free markets"...
 
What rule required them to loan to those who couldn't afford. What I here the right Gestapo sayin is you told us not to discriminate so we hoodwinked.
 
Damocles said:
You do realize that TARP, and these "free trade agreements" are both not "Free Trade" by any definition that I learned in economics class, right? When we give "most favored" status to nations that put tariffs on our goods while we refuse to charge tariffs... that isn't "free trade" it is government mismanagement.

TARP is government welfare to corporations that would otherwise have failed. The rules that required them to make loans to people who could not afford it, then allowed them to bundle them and rate them as AAA? Also not "free market"...

You label something a failure that has never been tried. It is government mismanagement that caused this failure. Not "free markets"...
Click to expand...

There is ALL kinds of corporate welfare going on. That is why the system you have is far from capitalist.

How can true "free Markets" work? You mean if the Chinese were not actually manipulating their currency(Basically buying foreign currency to prop foreign currency up and keep theirs down??)

As far as free trade? Both governments sold Canadians and Americans out. Americans lost all kinds of labor to Canada but it is not Canadians that benefited. It is the cheap immigrants from China and India that our government brought it for cheap labour. Now that the American economy is hurting BECAUSE of the fact they lost jobs? Canada is now hurting and has lots of immigrants and Canadians(and their children) competing for jobs that are not there.
 
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The Dude said:
What rule required them to loan to those who couldn't afford. What I here the right Gestapo sayin is you told us not to discriminate so we hoodwinked.
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Bank employees were given bonuses for signing these people. After all? The banks don't lose. It still has most of the money and the house as collateral. The people lose. All that they put into the house and the house.

But the banks finally did take a hit when the housing market crashed and sometimes the money they loaned for the house was more then the value of the house after the crash. Still, don't cry any tears for the banks. They were bailed out by the tax payer......

The banks were left with no money to lend out and the money of investors was lost. So you see, the rich had to be bailed out. Rather then the rich(or the bank) take a loss(note sarcasm).
 
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wiseones2cents said:
I dont understand so maybe you republicans can explain this to me. You are all pro capitalist(Greed), you are pro giving tax exemptions to corporations that are using that money to create jobs out side of America, and then blame Obama for destroying the middle class?LOL Can you people really be that clueless? Has fox news spun your head so much you cannot see what is happening here???

Someone said that (NWO)Obama is destroying the world's(Americas) middle class. Ummmmm American corporations part of the NWO are destroying the middle class by outsourcing jobs to China. But not in the world.

China and India's middle class are rising rapidly.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...d_on_tabl.html

And look at Europe as a result. Shameful.

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-considering...WExYTFi;_ylv=3

I think their may be a Protest in Europe soon!


Now I said that could be a good thing, if China and India became these massive consumers. Think about it. America was a massive consumer with less then 300 million(at the time) and they were consuming products from all over the world keeping many countires economies afloat(until they got too greedy).

If China and India with their combined 2+ billion consumers began importing, that could be beneficial. At the same time I do not like My country's economic prosperity to be dependent on another.

But China has been neglectful to bridge the trade deficit gap(being a protectionist), but is China alone to blame? You think those American corporations enjoying huge profit margins do not want the gravy train to keep flowing?

China has agreed to buy 900,000 metric tons of American corn for reserves. Its a start but not enough.

I believe China is going to have a massive market in the Solar power industry. And I dont mind because they will provide affordable clean energy to the world. But at the same time they have to give some back. Buy more exports.
Click to expand...

You are not describing free trade, but rather corporatism. Corporations are created by and protected by specific government policies, at the expense of small business. This whole mess has been created by government intervention and corporatism.
 
Centinel said:
You are not describing free trade, but rather corporatism. Corporations are created by and protected by specific government policies, at the expense of small business. This whole mess has been created by government intervention and corporatism.
Click to expand...

Its not the gov that is the problem but the entire political/economic system that allows lobby groups and corporations to own politicians.

The republicans repeat the lie that they want less government interference, but fully support governments giving these corporations, corporate welfare saying it is necessary to create jobs. They cant see the major contradiction. They are actually deterring competition and yes, the small business and middle men get to pay the bulk of the taxes, regardless of the lies they tell you.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Its not the gov that is the problem but the entire political/economic system that allows lobby groups and corporations to own politicians.

The republicans repeat the lie that they want less government interference, but fully support governments giving these corporations, corporate welfare saying it is necessary to create jobs. They cant see the major contradiction. They are actually deterring competition and yes, the small business and middle men get to pay the bulk of the taxes, regardless of the lies they tell you.
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Totally agree. Many in the Republican party talk of limited government, but they are anit-free market corporatists.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Its not the gov that is the problem but the entire political/economic system that allows lobby groups and corporations to own politicians.

The republicans repeat the lie that they want less government interference, but fully support governments giving these corporations, corporate welfare saying it is necessary to create jobs. They cant see the major contradiction. They are actually deterring competition and yes, the small business and middle men get to pay the bulk of the taxes, regardless of the lies they tell you.
Click to expand...

And here you blame solely the republicans while ignoring corporate cronyism like Solyndra that are apparent with this Administration and supported by the current Democrats in Congress. The attempt to lay blame makes us blind to the failures of the "team" we've decided to associate with. Corporate welfare is the first steps on a long road to corruption that infects both paths that we currently trod in a two party system.
 
Moron2cents there were plenty of loser banks and politicians acting as criminal. That doesn't make free markets or capitalism bad.
 
Looks like idiot2cents and morondude are having a stupid contest.....the lead is changing with every post but here the people that can leave you two dopes in the dust...

 
The Dude said:
I actually dont know anyone loser enough to go into the navy after high school bravo.
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Best decision I made. I went to college, older and wiser with a language and travel under my belt. I was able to CLEP out of many courses, paid for by the Navy, enjoy myself... And was in way better shape and had an easy time finding girlfriends.

Methinks you don't know what you are talking about. It ruled.

I can't imagine. I graduated early 17, went in the Navy that summer (had to get Mom to sign to join) and was out just before my 21st birthday (I saved up leave)... Entered college that winter semester, 2 years later had a bachelors degree...

I weighed 110 soaking wet when I went in, left boot camp at 145, 4% body fat.... I was FIT. If I had gone straight to college I would have had much less fun in college. I'm glad I went to the Navy first.
 
Dixie said:
IF this is a true statement, I surmise that either one of two things is possible, you are bilking the government entitlement system for money you don't deserve, or your wealth is the result of capitalism.
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Neither. And wealth is created by labor(regardless of the system). Or in the case of a capitalist middleman? Someone else's labor. Money they dont deserve to make. :)

Thats why the confederates loved slavery.

Just in case you didn't know? Wealth existed before capitalism. :)
 
Damocles said:
And here you blame solely the republicans while ignoring corporate cronyism like Solyndra that are apparent with this Administration and supported by the current Democrats in Congress. The attempt to lay blame makes us blind to the failures of the "team" we've decided to associate with. Corporate welfare is the first steps on a long road to corruption that infects both paths that we currently trod in a two party system.
Click to expand...

Listen Damocles. I am neither Rep, Dem or liber, but believe me when I tell you. The republican support corporate greed much more then the rest. Sure like I said in the politics defined post. The left and right are both in on it, but the republican followers and more pro greed then anyone. I know. I debate on alot of forums and the Republicans are more pro greed then anyone. Maybe because most of them are from rich Texas?

I think Solyndra was a great Idea. Obama said the USA would lead the world in green technology, but some how China got a hold of that technology and America cannot compete with China's cheap labor.

Yes BOTH sides are benefiting from corporate welfare. But it goes something like this. The republican followers are anti social welfare and pro- corproate welfare and the dem followers(I'm talking moist followers not leaders) are pro social welfare and anti-corporate welfare.

This is why the Republicans share the larger blame for supporting corporate welfare.
 
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