Religion on the Left and Right

brazenhussy said:
I really laughed over the idea of a fetus committing suicide. That's so funny. It would make a great black comedy.

Like can you imagine, a fetus finds out alias is its father and starts looking around for the umbilical cord to strangle itself?
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I love it when I'm a moonbat lefty's head. Thanks for making my day.
 
apple0154 said:
We don't know if they formed a unique organism until they are born.
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obviously we know at the point of killing it that it hasn't miscarried.......your "half" claim includes fertilized eggs that fail to implant.....what percentage of pregnancies miscarry after implantation?......
 
apple0154 said:
My contention is the changes that happen at birth are major. Just the fact the "entity" can go from a liquid environment to a gaseous one in a matter of seconds and survive is nothing short of astonishing. If we could take an "entity" living in a liquid environment or an "entity" living in a gaseous environment and switch environments and that "entity" lived it would rock the scientific world. Of course, there's none we know about because if any could it would not be considered the same "entity".
No shit, Charlie Chan....your powers of logic are nothing short of astonishing....
tell me, can you think of any other entities that go through similar major changes during life ?....say an egg turning into a chicken, a tadpole into a frog....?

If a fish could live on land it wouldn't be considered a fish. If a mammal could breathe under water it wouldn't be a mammal.
As explained above if it lived out of water it wouldn't be a fish. The fact something can live out of water tells us it isn't a fish.
Did you take any biology courses, at all?


wow....another scientific breakthrough....you da man....


Quite the contrary. Abortion is about morality, religion, 'cheapening' a human being and the attempted ownership/slavery of women.

I agree abortion is about morality, etc....trouble is, we're talking about biology, not religion...
you seem unable to seperate the two...

Except, of course, those 50% that spontaneously abort. Did you forget about them?

I already said they would die....thats the last stage of existance....a scientific fact as of now....

In that case the fertilizing of a cell is an arbitrary call and it's a call that affects the freedom of half the human population and is the last point we should consider.

In order for you to have a clear conscience, you may choose any point of existence to allow killing of a human....thats what you do now....choosing birth is no different that choosing the third birthday or any point on the line that measures a human life from beginning to end...the third birthdays sound good, it will give you some leeway in case the sob keeps you awake at night, just choke him or her.

In that case the sperm and the egg are stages. If we're going to consider the merging of them as a start to something we can just as easily consider birth as the start to something and considering it's easier to determine the time and place of birth as opposed to the time and place of the combining of sperm and egg it makes much more sense to use birth as the defining point.

Sperm and egg are stages ? stages of what....sperm is sperm and eggs are eggs...they will never become something else
You may choose birth or any other time to satisfy you conscience....that has nothing to do with biology...

It does matter. How do we know if a fertilized cell has the necessary components to carry on the processes of life? The answer is we don't know but we do know 50% of them spontaneously abort. It's reasonable to conclude, minus any extenuating circumstances, many of them do not have the ability to carry on the processes of life.

It's reasonable to conclude ?.....Science and biology aren't into guessing.....or coming to conclusions just to satisfy some warped idea of killing children so they don't experience hunger of some other nonsense...

I agree. However, the life of a human being begins at birth. The ability to change from a liquid environment to a gaseous one is a fundamental change. As I stated previously if a fish was discovered to be able to live on land and breath in a gaseous atmosphere it would no longer be classified as a fish. The opposite is true of mammals. Such an "entity" would be considered a different organism.
See above sarcasm


But no human being is being killed. Some people insist on classifying something that is not a human being as a human being. Of course problems are going to arise. Bizarre, weird, unsolvable problems because it's a fabricated issue. It is based on part science, part religion, part beliefs while none of those prove anything.

Abortion is what drives your thinking, and little else....your beliefs about human life MUST dovetail your abortion support and to a lesser degree your shallow religions beliefs which evolve as needed........

There is nothing unsolvable here.....Life has a beginning and end....a fertilized is the start that continues to develop, grow, change and keep changing until death....whether it be 1 second or 200 years after that beginning.....there is no religion, no magic, no morals at play....only biology....

The names we choose to identify those stages of life are irrelevant, the length of that life is irrelevant, even the quality of that life is irrelevant.....
Helen Keller, Ray Charles, Homer, Milton, Beethoven, etc.....there are many people that are less than perfect, some from conception to death and others, in between....

All DNA does it let us know a fetus is composed of human material just like a kidney or liver. It does not nor can not tell us if something is a human being. As for religion...well, not much need be said after knowing about the deal between Napoleon of France and the Pope in 1869 and as for beliefs people can believe anything they wish, right or wrong.
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I guess you must think a lot of human DNA is present in the livers of whales and goats, huh ?
 
brazenhussy said:
You're welcome! I already have a head though. How are you going to be my head? Is this going to be painful?
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Yes, and obviously I'm in it. When you make reference to me in posts then it's evidence I'm in your thoughts. That means I'm doing my job here. Thanks for letting me know and, like I said, it makes my day. Thanks.
 
Alias said:
YOU are the one who brought reincarnation into the debate. YOU are the one who needs to prove your point.

I bet you're not allowed to use a gun, are you!
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So now you want proof do you?

What was it you just said to me??

Oh yeah...

Alias said:
No one needs to prove anything to you. You're just a little silent fart in the windstorm of truth....and you know what they say.......... silent farts are the stinkiest.
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Ya know, now that I read it a couple times...it sounds like some good advice to me!
 
Alias said:
The breath of life GOD breathed into Adam was God's Spirit at Creation, not oxygen like it is referring to in the parts you mentioned.
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And you know this for fact because you were there?

Oh wait...you can't prove anything...it's just your opinion.
 
bravo said:
Stop with the playground bullshit already.....no one calls a baby a teenager, or a toddler a senior citizen, or an egg a chicken, or a bag of ingredients a cake.....

If you can't debate like an adult, log out or go visit facebook with the kiddies.....
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Awwwwwwwwwww...is someone getting tired of the "playground bullshit"?

Maybe he should take his own advice?


bravo said:
Do you seriously demand that I need proof debating a nitwit of the "Flat Earth Society"....
I need no proof....Appel the Pinhead is the one that must prove his ridiculous logic....Screw you clown...
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Yeah, you got plenty of room to talk. You don't EVER engage in "playground bullshit", do you?
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Awwwwwwwwwww...is someone getting tired of the "playground bullshit"?

Maybe he should take his own advice?





Yeah, you got plenty of room to talk. You don't EVER engage in "playground bullshit", do you?
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If you don't like getting hit back then don't hit in the first place. Even little kids understand that.
 
Sorry...already tried the civility route...it got me these responses from you...

Alias said:
Sorry. I assumed you had a functioning brain and a little common sense. I'll try to not make that mistake again.
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Above was your polite response to my supposing that re-incarnation may give us another chance at life...a possibility I put forward in response to your claim we only get one chance at life.

Alias said:
The truth gives me comfort. No one needs to prove anything to you. You're just a little silent fart in the windstorm of truth....and you know what they say.......... silent farts are the stinkiest.
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Above is your civil response to my comment pointing out that your opinion doesn't count as fact.

Alias said:
YOU are the one who brought reincarnation into the debate. YOU are the one who needs to prove your point.

I bet you're not allowed to use a gun, are you!
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Yet another polite response from you above...

Alias said:
I bet if you stop your crap, everyone else you accuse of being rude will all of a sudden become more polite to you. Try it.
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Being polite sure didn't bring out the civility in you now did it?
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Sorry...already tried the civility route...it got me these responses from you...



Above was your polite response to my supposing that re-incarnation may give us another chance at life...a possibility I put forward in response to your claim we only get one chance at life.



Above is your civil response to my comment pointing out that your opinion doesn't count as fact.



Yet another polite response from you above...



Being polite sure didn't bring out the civility in you now did it?
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Those were responses to your rudeness. I'm ready and willing to start right NOW. Try me.
 
Alias said:
Those were responses to your rudeness. I'm ready and willing to start right NOW. Try me.
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I've said it dozens of times...treat me with respect/civility and you get the same in return.

That said, actions speak louder than words so let's just see how the next couple days go.
 
apple0154 said:
You still don't understand. I'll give it one more try. (okay)

Sperm and egg are alive. (single-cell living organisms) They join. (and a unique multi-cell living organism is created) Rather than creating a unique organism (if they joined, they created a living multi-cell organism) something goes wrong (if something 'goes wrong' they never become living organisms of any kind, and are irrelevant in this discussion.) and the resulting "product" (there is no product, they never joined.) starts to deteriorate/die. (it can't DIE unless it is LIVING first!) There was no unique organism formed. (yes, if they joined and began living as a multi-cell organism, there WAS! --and you just admitted there was!) What formed was faulty. (again, if it the cells never joined and began the process, it is academic.)

If a unique organism had formed (if sperm and egg cells joined, it DID form.) it would have carried on the processes of life but it didn't. (It did, by your own admission, and then it died.) Considering half of all such "products" spontaneously (doesn't matter if 100% abort) abort (can't abort a process unless it's in the process) it's ludicrous to conclude the joining of sperm and egg, the fertilization of the cell, always results in an organism. (no, it's scientifically and biological accurate to conclude this, because that is exactly what happens when a single sperm cell and egg cell merge and become a multi-cell living organism, and you've presented no evidence of any kind to the contrary.)

With what part of that are you having difficulty understanding?
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ALL OF IT, BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO CONTRADICT YOUR OWN ARGUMENT!
 
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