The level of civility is deteriorating rapidly

cawacko said:
I didn't exactly pick that up in the 12 paragraphs you wrote but I'll take your word for it that it is what you meant. While some corporations are leaving the U.S. due to tax and regulation issues most are still based right here so do you have some examples in mind of the best U.S. corporations leaving?
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Perhaps I should rephrase. While head offices may be here production (jobs) are being farmed out elsewhere. That is what I mean by capitalism being perverted. Companies do not care about the local community in which they reside. And neither do people. That's why taxes are so important.
 
Dixie said:
I happen to be most proficient at history, not a scholar, not a know-it-all encyclopedia, but I can hold my own with most anyone who isn't a history major. Judging by the socialist claptrap you posted, it would appear that any history you may have learned in your younger days, has long-since been replaced with brainwashed propaganda. Nothing in your diatribe was either factual or accurate.

Somewhere along the way, you have associated social programs and helping ones neighbor, with a function of the federal government. Sorry, but we simply disagree on this being the role of the federal government. It's not, it never was intended to be. Helping your neighbor is something YOU should do, not the government, and not "wealthy people" through taxation. What you mistakingly advocate, through your ignorance of government's role under the Constitution, is the exact system of government advocated by Karl Marx. Now you can deny that all you like, but I have read Marx, and I have read the DNC platform over the past 16 years, and yeah.. pretty much the exact same thing... if Marx was alive, he could sue the DNC for plagiarism.
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Dix, the point is the survival of the country. Working together, as people did from the time of the settlers, is what resulted in a great country. All you have to do is look at countries which are divided. They do not prosper even though they have "local communities". As less and less cooperation occurs what do you think is going to happen?
 
Rana said:
He is entitled to his opinion, what was his solution for bringing affordable medical care to ALL Americans, I bet he didn't have one, did he?
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The man wasn't giving a policy speech running for office. He's freaking 90 years old. Like I said he touched on his experience in the Nixon Administration with wage and price controls and the shortages that they caused and he sees the same thing with Obamacare.
 
apple0154 said:
Perhaps I should rephrase. While head offices may be here production (jobs) are being farmed out elsewhere. That is what I mean by capitalism being perverted. Companies do not care about the local community in which they reside. And neither do people. That's why taxes are so important.
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How is that capitalism being perverted? Capital is always going to find its most efficient allocation that what's capitalism is. Manufactoring jobs were originally moved from the Northeast to the South. Was that a perversion of capitalism or did you not complain because it stayed in the U.S.? And obviously taxes play a role in where capital goes but I don't know if that is how you meant it. Would you like us to go back to the tariffs of 1930?
 
cawacko said:
Got this paragraph in an e-mail from CATO this morning. As they say apple would see no limits to anything the government wanted to do.

""Soon the Supreme Court will be asked to weigh in on perhaps the most important question of the post–New Deal era: Are there any remaining limits on the breadth and scope of federal power? Reinforced by decades of Court decisions that have gutted the Framers’ original conception of limited government, the Obama administration has embraced an unprecedented expansion of centralized control….An essential aspect of liberty is the freedom not to participate. PPACA’s directive that Americans buy an unwanted product from a private company debases individual liberty. And it’s unconstitutional""
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How could the original framers possibly know anything about medical care in the late 1700's? It's like looking at the Constitution and expecting to find guidance should aliens arrive in space ships. The purpose of the Constitution as expressed in the Preamble is for the government to do what is best for the country. Period.

The general welfare. Welfare of what/whom? It can only mean the country and it's citizens and what logic is there to having medicines and medical procedures to save citizen's lives but refuse to share it resulting in 45,000 deaths per year (Harvard study)?
 
apple0154 said:
How could the original framers possibly know anything about medical care in the late 1700's? It's like looking at the Constitution and expecting to find guidance should aliens arrive in space ships. The purpose of the Constitution as expressed in the Preamble is for the government to do what is best for the country. Period.

The general welfare. Welfare of what/whom? It can only mean the country and it's citizens and what logic is there to having medicines and medical procedures to save citizen's lives but refuse to share it resulting in 45,000 deaths per year (Harvard study)?
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Well shouldn't promoting the general welfare have the government provide everyone with a place to live, food and some clothing? Because I mean what were the founders thinking right? They didn't know what they were doing.
 
cawacko said:
How is that capitalism being perverted? Capital is always going to find its most efficient allocation that what's capitalism is. Manufactoring jobs were originally moved from the Northeast to the South. Was that a perversion of capitalism or did you not complain because it stayed in the U.S.? And obviously taxes play a role in where capital goes but I don't know if that is how you meant it. Would you like us to go back to the tariffs of 1930?
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Yes, capital does go wherever it wants but that doesn't stop the US government from taxing corporate profits. On a smaller scale a person buys an apartment block in a neighboring town. When he sells he's taxed lower on capital gains. The community in which the apartment building is located should get a portion of that tax revenue and the rate should be the same as regular income.

The owner did not contribute to the community because he never even lived there. He didn't volunteer at the library or fire department just as the CEOs of large companies do not contribute to local communities so taxes are necessary to compensate for a lack of personal involvement.

Times have changed. The Constitution is a living document. It's primary purpose is stated in the Preamble. The clauses have to be interpreted in the light of today. Rues and customs from 200 years ago have all changed as far as interpretation is concerned because society has changed.
 
cawacko said:
The man wasn't giving a policy speech running for office. He's freaking 90 years old. Like I said he touched on his experience in the Nixon Administration with wage and price controls and the shortages that they caused and he sees the same thing with Obamacare.
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Ooooooooooo! Testy...there are Already shortages.
 
cawacko said:
Well shouldn't promoting the general welfare have the government provide everyone with a place to live, food and some clothing? Because I mean what were the founders thinking right? They didn't know what they were doing.
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Yes, the government should provide a place to live, food and some clothing for those in need by way of a guaranteed income. Unless the founders were seers like Nostradamus they had no idea what the world would be like today. In their time it was physically impossible to provide for everyone. One man digging and planting a garden could only feed a finite number of people. Today, a person with the aid of technology can produce enough to feed hundreds.

Look at all the homes that were built during the housing bubble. Now there are blocks of homes sitting empty because the perversion of capitalism dictates it's better to let a house rot than to give it to a poor family.

Where is the logic?
 
apple0154 said:
Yes, capital does go wherever it wants but that doesn't stop the US government from taxing corporate profits. On a smaller scale a person buys an apartment block in a neighboring town. When he sells he's taxed lower on capital gains. The community in which the apartment building is located should get a portion of that tax revenue and the rate should be the same as regular income.

The owner did not contribute to the community because he never even lived there. He didn't volunteer at the library or fire department just as the CEOs of large companies do not contribute to local communities so taxes are necessary to compensate for a lack of personal involvement.

Times have changed. The Constitution is a living document. It's primary purpose is stated in the Preamble. The clauses have to be interpreted in the light of today. Rues and customs from 200 years ago have all changed as far as interpretation is concerned because society has changed.
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The community where the property is located gets tax revenue every year from that owner. It's called property tax.

Yeah, that old played out document called the Constitution. It had its day but we're way beyond that now.
 
apple0154 said:
Yes, the government should provide a place to live, food and some clothing for those in need by way of a guaranteed income. Unless the founders were seers like Nostradamus they had no idea what the world would be like today. In their time it was physically impossible to provide for everyone. One man digging and planting a garden could only feed a finite number of people. Today, a person with the aid of technology can produce enough to feed hundreds.

Look at all the homes that were built during the housing bubble. Now there are blocks of homes sitting empty because the perversion of capitalism dictates it's better to let a house rot than to give it to a poor family.

Where is the logic?
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So the state or federal government should just commondeer private property to give to the poor?

Our government does give out Section 8 housing vouchers to the poor. Go look up a City called Lancaster, California and see how Section 8 vouchers have changed it.

You're Canadian so it is not surprising to me you hold the views you do. You would prefer a more European welfare type society than the system we have in the U.S. You of course have every right to hold those beliefs but to me the proof is in the pudding for what America has achieved vs the others.
 
cawacko said:
The community where the property is located gets tax revenue every year from that owner. It's called property tax.

Yeah, that old played out document called the Constitution. It had its day but we're way beyond that now.
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Cawacko says, his voice dripping with sarcasm!
 
Rana said:
Ooooooooooo! Testy...there are Already shortages.
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No, not testy was just stating the man is 90 years old though a couple of people asked him if he would run. The country could do a hell of a lot worse. If there are shortages now what do you think this new law is going to do?
 
cawacko said:
So the state or federal government should just commondeer private property to give to the poor?

Our government does give out Section 8 housing vouchers to the poor. Go look up a City called Lancaster, California and see how Section 8 vouchers have changed it.

You're Canadian so it is not surprising to me you hold the views you do. You would prefer a more European welfare type society than the system we have in the U.S. You of course have every right to hold those beliefs but to me the proof is in the pudding for what America has achieved vs the others.
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No, I think we should take away all forms of aide to the elderly and poor!

I then will wait and watch as the urban areas explode in riots, our own little Libya!
 
cawacko said:
No, not testy was just stating the man is 90 years old though a couple of people asked him if he would run. The country could do a hell of a lot worse. If there are shortages now what do you think this new law is going to do?
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Make people wake the hell up...maybe next time you should attend a Medicare conference and hear what the elderly are dealing with in this nation...and these aren't slackers, these are the people who we called the greatest age.
 
Rana said:
Make people wake the hell up...maybe next time you should attend a Medicare conference and hear what the elderly are dealing with in this nation...and these aren't slackers, these are the people who we called the greatest age.
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Wake up in what way? Like force more people to become doctors or something like that to provide more service?
 
ZappasGuitar said:
And does Dixie even give a passing mention to his own deplorable lack of civility?

Of course not...yet he piously wonders why OTHERS are so discourteous...
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Not only that...it now appears as though Dix couldn't find the courage to respond to my claim...anyone wonder why?
 
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