A federal stimulus grant of nearly $500,000 yielded a whopping 1.72 jobs.

Onceler said:
You sure are good at that cut & paste stuff, ODS guy. You must have searched "failed" with "stimulus" - creative.

The prediction failed - by about 1%. The stimulus itself did not.
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You are such an Obama apologist.

1% difference in unemployment is HOW many jobs?
 
Superfreak said:
You are such an Obama apologist.

1% difference in unemployment is HOW many jobs?
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It's a ton of jobs, and I said that they didn't create as many as promised. It's funny what you hone in on, though.

At the time, I also said - many times - that their predictions were far too rosy. And, as I said above, their prediction clearly failed.

Yeah - that all sounds like apologism to me.
 
my favorite fail of the stimulus propaganda wise is the "saved or created" jobs....and the left just ate it up. i saved or created 10 jobs today by driving to get coffee....:D
 
Onceler said:
I'm pretty capitalist. Obviously, something else is needed at this point. One thing I do agree with a poster like SF on is that we need some sort of "moon shot" initiiative on energy. There are opportunities out there to create a boom, and definitely, the private sector has to lead those opportunities, but the gov't can help.
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THAT is the type of stimulus Keynes supported. The truly sad part is that such an initiative could be born by the private sector corps in terms of costs. The admin doesn't really have to commit much funding. Tell the gas stations that in 3/4 years (whatever the number) they have to provide nat gas distribution. Tell the automakers to retool their lines. Then allow for drilling domestically. None of these requires government outlays.
 
Onceler said:
I don't expect the gov't to fix it. I never thought the stimulus would be a "fix"; more like a band aid. Something to stem the bleeding, give the private sector time to catch its breath & then let the private sector take over.

I'm pretty capitalist. Obviously, something else is needed at this point. One thing I do agree with a poster like SF on is that we need some sort of "moon shot" initiiative on energy. There are opportunities out there to create a boom, and definitely, the private sector has to lead those opportunities, but the gov't can help.
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and you see half a million federal dollars to save 2 jobs paying 50k a year a bandaid?
 
Superfreak said:
THAT is the type of stimulus Keynes supported. The truly sad part is that such an initiative could be born by the private sector corps in terms of costs. The admin doesn't really have to commit much funding. Tell the gas stations that in 3/4 years (whatever the number) they have to provide nat gas distribution. Tell the automakers to retool their lines. Then allow for drilling domestically. None of these requires government outlays.
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I agree that gov't role is limited, but there are definitely measures in terms of deregulation/regulation & tax incentives that can help...
 
Yurt said:
my favorite fail of the stimulus propaganda wise is the "saved or created" jobs....and the left just ate it up. i saved or created 10 jobs today by driving to get coffee....:D
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If you'd google saved jobs with as much fervor, you'd find many instances of employers crediting the stimulus w/ allowing them to keep jobs intact.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
i don't think anyone can describe the entire stimulus package because it was a shambles to begin with, in fact you said it was.
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I didn't say it was a shambles; I said there was waste. And the story of the OP does not "characterize" the stimulus; it characterizes some of the waste of the stimulus. The flip side of that coin is that hundreds of thousands of jobs were created - something that is never talked about it.

That's the band-aid, as is the turnaround in the market from 2009 until this year.

Me? That's about what I expected the stimulus to do. If anyone thought it was going to "fix" the economy on its own and get us back to sub-5% unemployment, their expectations weren't realistic.
 
Onceler said:
I didn't say it was a shambles; I said there was waste. And the story of the OP does not "characterize" the stimulus; it characterizes some of the waste of the stimulus. The flip side of that coin is that hundreds of thousands of jobs were created - something that is never talked about it.

That's the band-aid, as is the turnaround in the market from 2009 until this year.

Me? That's about what I expected the stimulus to do. If anyone thought it was going to "fix" the economy on its own and get us back to sub-5% unemployment, their expectations weren't realistic.
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where are the details for these hundreds of thousands of jobs that were created? I'd love to see a side by side of how many of those were private sector vs. government jobs.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
where are the details for these hundreds of thousands of jobs that were created? I'd love to see a side by side of how many of those were private sector vs. government jobs.
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The recovery.org site lists a lot of them; there are other sources as well. It's easy to google.

I don't care of they're gov't or private. That's missing the point, imo - the idea is to start to get people to work, so they start spending again, so that the private sector can take the baton & run w/ it...
 
Onceler said:
The recovery.org site lists a lot of them; there are other sources as well. It's easy to google.

I don't care of they're gov't or private. That's missing the point, imo - the idea is to start to get people to work, so they start spending again, so that the private sector can take the baton & run w/ it...
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you should care whether they are gov or private jobs. government jobs produce nothing, they only consume money. It's exactly like the example in the OP. You're throwing 10 times the money at a few jobs so some people will spend a little extra money.........and in the end the positives are negligible.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you should care whether they are gov or private jobs. government jobs produce nothing, they only consume money. It's exactly like the example in the OP. You're throwing 10 times the money at a few jobs so some people will spend a little extra money.........and in the end the positives are negligible.
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The gov't has lost a ton of jobs over the past 2 years. Again - I'm more concerned about the idea of people just getting paychecks again. When people get paychecks, they spend them, and when they spend them, businesses do better. When businesses do better, they hire.
 
Onceler said:
The gov't has lost a ton of jobs over the past 2 years. Again - I'm more concerned about the idea of people just getting paychecks again. When people get paychecks, they spend them, and when they spend them, businesses do better. When businesses do better, they hire.
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thus does the circle of a debt based economy continue with the ebb and flow of bubbles created by jobs paid for by the american people.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
thus does the circle of a debt based economy continue with the ebb and flow of bubbles created by jobs paid for by the american people.
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Well, I agree we need much more of a manufacturing base - which is why a moonshot on energy would help. There is also a lot of potential in biotech & medicine.

But, for now, we are a consumer-based economy - so it is very accurate to say that the American people pay for most jobs, one way or the other...
 
Onceler said:
Well, I agree we need much more of a manufacturing base - which is why a moonshot on energy would help. There is also a lot of potential in biotech & medicine.
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I would tend to agree on this, however, it's not going to happen so long as the belief that more regulation equals a safer product. It would also help the free market if we would do away with the 'too big to fail' behemoths and open up the market to better free enterprise.

Onceler said:
But, for now, we are a consumer-based economy - so it is very accurate to say that the American people pay for most jobs, one way or the other...
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we haven't been a consumer based economy for some time. If one has to continually get loans just to continue operating or expanding, we are a debt based economy.
 
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