WHY OBAMA WILL WIN in '12

Superfreak said:
ROFLMAO.... then you will surely be able to show us his jobs plan, his budget plan, his deficit reduction plan???

I mean, we are over two years in.... surely you can provide these basic plans that Obama the 'leader' has provided???



LOL.... you do realize we are heading TOWARD the cliff again right now, not away from it?

The health care bill is a fiasco at best. It will do nothing to address the long term escalation of rising health care costs.

He made a gutsy call on taking out Osama, no question.... but he didn't lead that effort. He gave the GO. That was it.
Iraq.... still there. Afghanistan... escalated. Libya... new one. Gitmo... still open.

Show me a President that HAS tried to jam a religious crusade down the throats of the American people. I can certainly show you a President that has tried to cram his party's ill conceived health care ideology down the throats of Americans.

He has accomplished little in 2.5 years. Unemployment is still over 9%. GDP growth is anemic at best.



Certainly your prerogative to disagree... but you are one of few who believe that.



Please provide us links to support the above assertions.
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http://www.enviroknow.com/2011/06/23/rick-perry-al-gore-1988/ (Perry is Gore's Texas Campaign chair.)

http://blog.chron.com/believeitorno...ns-raise-first-amendment-church-state-issues/ (Parry launches an attack on the First Amendment.)
 
I guess, in a way, that can be said about any and all religious groups....or even political groups and social clubs for that matter.....
 
Jarod said:
http://www.enviroknow.com/2011/06/23/rick-perry-al-gore-1988/ (Perry is Gore's Texas Campaign chair.)
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This article has nothing to do with Perry trying to theocratize anything, nor does it have anything to do with his understanding of the constitution.

http://blog.chron.com/believeitorno...ns-raise-first-amendment-church-state-issues/ (Parry launches an attack on the First Amendment.)
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How exactly did Perry attack the first amendment here?

I also can't help but notice that you provided NO links to Obama's 'plans'
 
Onceler said:
People always call Mormonism a cult religion, but in a way, isn't that what organized religion inherently is? It's just that some have been around longer & have more people...
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Yes.... that is the difference, in my opinion. It is a way to demonize the group typically due to feeling threatened by it.
 
Superfreak said:
This article has nothing to do with Perry trying to theocratize anything, nor does it have anything to do with his understanding of the constitution.



How exactly did Perry attack the first amendment here?

I also can't help but notice that you provided NO links to Obama's 'plans'
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I provided you the links, the do say what I said they say. You can claim differently if you choose, a government sponsored day of prayer is contrary to the First Amendment.
 
Lowaicue said:
Oh come, come, come. Fine people, the mormons. Magic underwear, vast stock piles of food for when the world ends, no tea, no coffee, no alcohol, no cigs, no, no, no no nononononoNO.
We get them here. Young, incredibly clean and shiny, great melon slice smiles wanting to be 'nice' to everyone. I spoke to a couple not long ago.
'Haa,' they said, 'it shure is a fahn day.' (I couldn't argue about that, most days here are fine) and then they asked, 'What do you do?' I replied that lately I have been spending far too much time telling mormons to piss off back to Utah because they had no right to preach against existing beliefs and cultures in a foreign country. Their melon slice smiles stretched across disappointed faces and for a moment I could tell they felt comforted by their magic underpants.
Bloody fools.
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Actually, there aren't too many Mormons in the parts of America where people talk like that. People in Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Nevada, and Montana have Western accents.
 
Jarod said:
I provided you the links, the do say what I said they say. You can claim differently if you choose, a government sponsored day of prayer is contrary to the First Amendment.
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The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law “respecting an establishment of religion,” impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

You MIGHT be able to justify the separation of church and state if you really stretch it.... But in now way did he violate the first Amendment or try to Theocracize the state as you suggested.

AGAIN... I must note that you have still failed to provide ANY evidence of Obama's plans.
 
Superfreak said:
The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law “respecting an establishment of religion,” impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

You MIGHT be able to justify the separation of church and state if you really stretch it.... But in now way did he violate the first Amendment or try to Theocracize the state as you suggested.

AGAIN... I must note that you have still failed to provide ANY evidence of Obama's plans.
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1) I never claimed Obama has published the plans you discuss.

2) The Seperation of Church and State is a principal that is derived from the First Amendment.

3) Establishing a day of prayer, is respecting the establishment of religen.
 
Jarod said:
1) I never claimed Obama has published the plans you discuss.

2) The Seperation of Church and State is a principal that is derived from the First Amendment.

3) Establishing a day of prayer, is respecting the establishment of religen.
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1) But you did say he has done 'everything he can to lead'.... part of leadership is putting forth the 'gameplan' for others to follow. Otherwise its just rhetoric.

2) Yes, it is derived from the First, but it is not a part of the First

3) Like I stated, if you really really really stretch the separation of church and state argument.... that I can see. But in no way was he trying to force his religious views on others, in no way was he saying 'this is the one and only religion'.
 
I like the one of her husband with the corndog. Because it's very "oh just the tip I've never had a huge phallic shaped object in my mouth before he he he". Whereas Michelle is all brazen hussy about it. Interesting couple. I can't post the picture of him because I got an error message. You have to have 5 posts to post links.
 
Superfreak said:
1) But you did say he has done 'everything he can to lead'.... part of leadership is putting forth the 'gameplan' for others to follow. Otherwise its just rhetoric.

2) Yes, it is derived from the First, but it is not a part of the First

3) Like I stated, if you really really really stretch the separation of church and state argument.... that I can see. But in no way was he trying to force his religious views on others, in no way was he saying 'this is the one and only religion'.
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He was using tax dolars to promote prayer.... Id say that is respecting the establishment of religen.
 
Superfreak said:
So... in your opinion, no one should be able to preach against existing beliefs and cultures??? So whatever practices and beliefs currently stand... tough shit... thats what you get??? Sorry, not sure if I got your position correct.... elaboration would be appreciated. Thanks
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Very briefly then. China has the oldest continuing culture in the world. It is often strange to a westerners eyes. It consists of several belief systems from Confucionism and Taoism to an almost slavish obedience to Fung Shui. They believe in ghosts (last weekend saw the beginning of the 'Hungry Ghost' festival in HK, when the gates of hell are said to open.)

There are many ceremonies attached to faith and superstition and there are at least as many 'explanatory' myths as there are in the West.
The Chinese culture, like any ancient culture, marks who the Chinese are.

You may disagree, you may not like that, but as an American, you must respect the ways of other people.

The Mormons and all other evangelistic churches (most but not all American) come here to CONVERT people to their faith. CONVERT. That means to persuade people that their own belief system and ancient culture is wrong and the worship of a different fairy is right.

You have precious little history of your own so, perhaps, cannot appreciate how important history is to a culture.
If there are any evangelists reading this forum, my message, loud and clear would be:


STAY AWAY FROM THAT WHICH IS NOT YOURS. PUT YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER.
 
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Lowaicue said:
QUOTE=Superfreak;854809]So... in your opinion, no one should be able to preach against existing beliefs and cultures??? So whatever practices and beliefs currently stand... tough shit... thats what you get??? Sorry, not sure if I got your position correct.... elaboration would be appreciated. Thanks
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Very briefly then. China has the oldest continuing culture in the world. It is often strange to a westerners eyes. It consists of several belief systems from Confucionism and Taoism to an almost slavish obedience to Fung Shui. They believe in ghosts (last weekend saw the beginning of the 'Hungry Ghost' festival in HK, when the gates of hell are said to open.)

There are many ceremonies attached to faith and superstition and there are at least as many 'explanatory' myths as there are in the West.
The Chinese culture, like any ancient culture, marks who the Chinese are.

You may disagree, you may not like that, but as an American, you must respect the ways of other people.

The Mormons and all other evangelistic churches (most but not all American) come here to CONVERT people to their faith. CONVERT. That means to persuade people that their own belief system and ancient culture is wrong and the worship of a different fairy is right.

You have precious little history of your own so, perhaps, cannot appreciate how important history is to a culture.
If there are any evangelists reading this forum, my message, loud and clear would be:


STAY AWAY FROM THAT WHICH IS NOT YOURS. PUT YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER.
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Says the guy on an American message board preaching how Americans 'need' to change.
 
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President Mittens said:
Says the guy on an American message board preaching how Americans 'need' to change.
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I don't preach. I assist.
Hardly comparing apples with apples, are you? How many Chinese evangelists go to America? How many British tele evengelists do you have on your screens?
 
Lowaicue said:
I don't preach. I assist.
Hardly comparing apples with apples, are you? How many Chinese evangelists go to America? How many British tele evengelists do you have on your screens?
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Wouldn't know, I don't preoccupy myself with othr peoples preachings. Unless they're pagan like myself. And I would say they just as willing to 'assist' as you are.
 
President Mittens said:
Wouldn't know, I don't preoccupy myself with othr peoples preachings. Unless they're pagan like myself. And I would say they just as willing to 'assist' as you are.
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So perhaps we could agree that where there is a pre-existing ancient culture there should be no attempt by anyone to destroy it.
 
Rana said:
He did mention it, compared himself to JFK and his Catholicism. He doesn't cram it down your throats like some of the other GOP candidates, but he has addressed the subject.
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He mentioned that people are using it like they did Catholicism against JFK. However, he doesn't stuff his religion into every speech like the ones I am speaking of.
 
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