BUFFETT: TAX THE RICH

Taichiliberal said:
Warren Buffet is a VERY successful capitalist.
Warren Buffet is an American.
Warren Buffet points out the FACT that the rich folk have used their bucks to lobby down their fair share of the comparative tax revenue in this country DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE STILL MAKING MILLIONS BEFORE THE TAX CUTS, BREAKS AND LOOPHOLES.

Neocon/teabagger/libertarian parrots and toadies regurgitate the assinine mantras fed to them by the people Buffet points out is screwing them....DESPITE THE FACT THAT ALL THE TAX BREAKS AND TAX CUTS AND LOOPHOLES GIVEN THE WEALTHY HAVE NOT RESULTED IN JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY.

NO ONE ON THIS THREAD CAN LOGICALLY OR FACTUALLY REFUTE OR DISPROVE WHAT BUFFET STATES IN HIS ARTICLE. Instead, they create their own little scenarios to try and bypass Buffet's reality based statements.

Irrational hatred for Obama, liberals, progressives or anyone perceived as "them" has once again led people to support the very entities that are diminishing their country and their society's financial situation....those who outsource, downsize and off-shore without giving a damn about the middle and working class in America....so long as they are serving them.
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Please find 3 Libertarians that support tax breaks for certain industries.
 
Hey... Superfreak. We don't need a sales tax... we'd have to change the constitution... (did I keep a straight face?)

what we need is a simplified code with a standard deduction. That would make a naturally progressive tax code where the rich pay a greater percentage, and the richer you were the higher that percentage would be. Then maybe Mott would stop talking about sales taxes...

:D
 
very easy to be a super billionaire and talk about taxing the top 1%.

he could be taxed 90% and he'd still be able to buy his own private island. and be a billionare.

tax someone 90% that is say, making 200k a year (also in the top 1% ) and it becomes a different story.
 
Synchronicity said:
very easy to be a super billionaire and talk about taxing the top 1%.

he could be taxed 90% and he'd still be able to buy his own private island. and be a billionare.

tax someone 90% that is say, making 200k a year (also in the top 1% ) and it becomes a different story.
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How Tax Brackets Work -- $250,001 Income Pays Five Cents More Tax

Here is how it really works. What happens is that the first $250K is taxed just like it has been, but anything that is made over $250K -- and only the amount over $250K -- is then taxed at the higher rate. The tax on the amount below $250K is not changed.

Example: Suppose the tax increase is 5% on income over $250K. This means that a person who reports income of $250K plus one dollar will be taxed an additional 5 cents. FIVE CENTS!

Yes, that's right, if it is 5% they are talking about then it means a 5 cent tax increase on people who make $250,001.

Let me repeat that. If you make $250,001, and they raise taxes 5% on people who make over $250K, then you will have to pay 5 cents more. Five cents. F.I.V.E. C.E.N.T.S. That is what people are so upset about. 5 cents.

If it is 5% a person making $260K might pay an additional $500. That's right, the proposed tax increase is approx. $42 a month on people making $260K, or making $21,600 a month. Forty-four dollars out of twenty-one thousand. THIS is what all the right-wingers are screaming about. THIS is what all the Ayn Rand cultists are threatening to stop working over. THAT is how tax brackets work.
 
Bfgrn said:

How Tax Brackets Work -- $250,001 Income Pays Five Cents More Tax

Here is how it really works. What happens is that the first $250K is taxed just like it has been, but anything that is made over $250K -- and only the amount over $250K -- is then taxed at the higher rate. The tax on the amount below $250K is not changed.

Example: Suppose the tax increase is 5% on income over $250K. This means that a person who reports income of $250K plus one dollar will be taxed an additional 5 cents. FIVE CENTS!

Yes, that's right, if it is 5% they are talking about then it means a 5 cent tax increase on people who make $250,001.

Let me repeat that. If you make $250,001, and they raise taxes 5% on people who make over $250K, then you will have to pay 5 cents more. Five cents. F.I.V.E. C.E.N.T.S. That is what people are so upset about. 5 cents.

If it is 5% a person making $260K might pay an additional $500. That's right, the proposed tax increase is approx. $42 a month on people making $260K, or making $21,600 a month. Forty-four dollars out of twenty-one thousand. THIS is what all the right-wingers are screaming about. THIS is what all the Ayn Rand cultists are threatening to stop working over. THAT is how tax brackets work.
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why does a dropout feel the need to explain tax rates?
 
The Dude said:
change the definition of wealthy to billionaires and I'm cool, please see AMT for how the not rich get fucked by demtards definition.
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Yea you don't exactly hear the ubber rich getting upset about those definitions either, do you? Both sides tax schemes it's the upper middle class who take it up the ass.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Yea you don't exactly hear the ubber rich getting upset about those definitions either, do you? Both sides tax schemes it's the upper middle class who take it up the ass.
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the poor don't pay zip, the rich are too rich to care and the upper middle get it without a reach around
 
Superfreak said:
NOTE TO MOTT: AGAIN..... THE FLAT TAX IS NOT A VAT TAX. IT IS NOT A NATIONAL SALES TAX. THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. THERE IS NO PREBATE. IT IS AN INCOME TAX. IT IS A TAX ON INCOME. IT IS A TAX ON INCOME. IT IS NOT A NATIONAL SALES TAX.



IT IS AN INCOME TAX. IT IS ADMINISTERED BY THE IRS. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO STATE THIS BEFORE YOU GET IT? I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR 'QUESTIONS' EVERY TIME YOU HAVE ASKED AND YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE THE ANSWERS. WHY IS THAT MOTT?



IT IS AN INCOME TAX. IT IS AN INCOME TAX. IT IS AN INCOME TAX. IT IS AN INCOME TAX. NO NEED TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION MORON.
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OK, apparently your fair flat tax is a religion to you cause your not going to think this through as I have challanged you.

I'll be honest with you, it's the former Republican and economic conservative that doesn't like your fair flat tax and the thing I don't like most about it is the prebate scheme. You're blowing off the administration of this tax scheme of yours and not thinking through the consequences of administering it. You think SS and medicare are big entitlement programs? Well what you're proposing with the prebate would be the largest government social entitlement in entire history of human government. SS and medicare would pale in scope compared to administering this prebate. You're talking about sending the majority of house holds in the US a monthly check. It would take a vast bureaucracy to administer this, the largest in government history! You would have to make sure all those homes got their check, that the sums on the check are accurate, that they go to the proper address, that you have the resources to prevent fraud (and that would require vast policing resources) to assure each household in making the correct claim on dependents and income. Clerks to calculate household income to calculate the amount of the prebate and we haven't even gotten to collecting the damn tax (more on that later), etc, etc.

Now let's talk about the ethical side. Now you've not only created the largest bureaucracy in US history to administer and police this prebate you've now made the overwhelming majority of Americans dependent on a monthy check from the government. Fuck I oppose that on a visceral level. It's just simply wrong to make that many people depedent to that large a degree on that large of a government entitlement program. SS is childs play compared to this prebate scheme!

Then let's talk about collecting your fair flat tax. How the fuck are you going to do that with 100% compliance with billions to trillions of points of sale? How will you assure that the moneys from each sale, at the point of sale, is calculated correctly and witheld with near 100% compliance. How would you prevent whole sale fraud from occurring and how would you ensure compliance in collection of your fair flat tax with out a vast number of bureaucrats and enforcement officials who can police these billions, even trillion points of sales? How are you going to do this with our making your vast bureaucracy created by your prebate even vaster? And you think this would be simpler then with holding income? You're nuts. You're simply not thinking this through.

So let's sum up the weaknesses of your fair flat tax.

It makes the majority of Americans dependent on a staggering huge and costly government entitlement program with the monthly prebates.
It would take the largest bureaucracy in human history to manage and enforce it.
It would be extraordinarly difficult, if not impossible, to keep fraud and abuse to manageable levels.
At the top end of the income scale the scheme is regressive and thus unfair.
It increases the cost of living by over 23%
It would not collect the levels of revenue the present system does with projected annual short falls of $400 billion.
It would require changing our constitution as well as ammending or eliminating the 16th ammendment. A task that would take 10 to 20 years to accomplish even if the political will to do so existed (it does not).
 
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Taichiliberal said:
Warren Buffet is a VERY successful capitalist.
Warren Buffet is an American.
Warren Buffet points out the FACT that the rich folk have used their bucks to lobby down their fair share of the comparative tax revenue in this country DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE STILL MAKING MILLIONS BEFORE THE TAX CUTS, BREAKS AND LOOPHOLES.

Neocon/teabagger/libertarian parrots and toadies regurgitate the assinine mantras fed to them by the people Buffet points out is screwing them....DESPITE THE FACT THAT ALL THE TAX BREAKS AND TAX CUTS AND LOOPHOLES GIVEN THE WEALTHY HAVE NOT RESULTED IN JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY.

NO ONE ON THIS THREAD CAN LOGICALLY OR FACTUALLY REFUTE OR DISPROVE WHAT BUFFET STATES IN HIS ARTICLE. Instead, they create their own little scenarios to try and bypass Buffet's reality based statements.

Irrational hatred for Obama, liberals, progressives or anyone perceived as "them" has once again led people to support the very entities that are diminishing their country and their society's financial situation....those who outsource, downsize and off-shore without giving a damn about the middle and working class in America....so long as they are serving them.
Click to expand...

LMAO.... yet when I show a proposal that will ELIMINATE ALL LOOPHOLES AND DEDUCTIONS, RAISE the effective tax rates of the wealthy..... what do I get?

A moronic liberal telling me it 'can't be passed and won't work, so why try'. (we will ignore the rest of his idiocy)

Yet not one of the other liberals on the board call him out for it.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
OK, apparently your fair flat tax is a religion to you cause your not going to think this through as I have challanged you.


I'll be honest with you, it's the former Republican and economic conservative that doesn't like your fair flat tax and the thing I don't like most about it is the prebate scheme. You're blowing off the administration of this tax scheme of yours and not thinking through the consequences of administering it. You think SS and medicare are big entitlement programs? Well what you're proposing with the prebate would be the largest government social entitlement in entire history of human government. SS and medicare would pale in scope compared to administering this prebate. You're talking about sending the majority of house holds in the US a monthly check. It would take a vast bureaucracy to administer this, the largest in government history! You would have to make sure all those homes got their check, that the sums on the check are accurate, that they go to the proper address, that you have the resources to prevent fraud (and that would require vast policing resources) to assure each household in making the correct claim on dependents and income. Clerks to calculate household income to calculate the amount of the prebate and we haven't even gotten to collecting the damn tax (more on that later), etc, etc.

Now let's talk about the ethical side. Now you've not only created the largest bureaucracy in US history to administer and police this prebate you've now made the overwhelming majority of Americans dependent on a monthy check from the government. Fuck I oppose that on a visceral level. It's just simply wrong to make that many people depedent to that large a degree on that large of a government entitlement program. SS is childs play compared to this prebate scheme!

Then let's talk about collecting your fair flat tax. How the fuck are you going to do that with 100% compliance with billions to trillions of points of sale? How will you assure that the moneys from each sale, at the point of sale, is calculated correctly and witheld with near 100% compliance. How would you prevent whole sale fraud from occurring and how would you ensure compliance in collection of your fair flat tax with out a vast number of bureaucrats and enforcement officials who can police these billions, even trillion points of sales? How are you going to do this with our making your vast bureaucracy created by your prebate even vaster? And you think this would be simpler then with holding income? You're nuts. You're simply not thinking this through.

So let's sum up the weaknesses of your fair flat tax.

It makes the majority of Americans dependent on a staggering huge and costly government entitlement program with the monthly prebates.
It would take the largest bureaucracy in human history to manage and enforce it.
It would be extraordinarly difficult, if not impossible, to keep fraud and abuse to manageable levels.
At the top end of the income scale the scheme is regressive and thus unfair.
It increases the cost of living by over 23%
It would not collect the levels of revenue the present system does with projected annual short falls of $400 billion.
It would require changing our constitution as well as ammending or eliminating the 16th ammendment. A task that would take 10 to 20 years to accomplish even if the political will to do so existed (it does not).
Click to expand...

LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FLAT TAX AND THE FAIR TAX PROPOSALS YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
OK, apparently your fair flat tax is a religion to you cause your not going to think this through as I have challanged you.

I'll be honest with you, it's the former Republican and economic conservative that doesn't like your fair flat tax and the thing I don't like most about it is the prebate scheme. You're blowing off the administration of this tax scheme of yours and not thinking through the consequences of administering it. You think SS and medicare are big entitlement programs? Well what you're proposing with the prebate would be the largest government social entitlement in entire history of human government. SS and medicare would pale in scope compared to administering this prebate. You're talking about sending the majority of house holds in the US a monthly check. It would take a vast bureaucracy to administer this, the largest in government history! You would have to make sure all those homes got their check, that the sums on the check are accurate, that they go to the proper address, that you have the resources to prevent fraud (and that would require vast policing resources) to assure each household in making the correct claim on dependents and income. Clerks to calculate household income to calculate the amount of the prebate and we haven't even gotten to collecting the damn tax (more on that later), etc, etc.

Now let's talk about the ethical side. Now you've not only created the largest bureaucracy in US history to administer and police this prebate you've now made the overwhelming majority of Americans dependent on a monthy check from the government. Fuck I oppose that on a visceral level. It's just simply wrong to make that many people depedent to that large a degree on that large of a government entitlement program. SS is childs play compared to this prebate scheme!

Then let's talk about collecting your fair flat tax. How the fuck are you going to do that with 100% compliance with billions to trillions of points of sale? How will you assure that the moneys from each sale, at the point of sale, is calculated correctly and witheld with near 100% compliance. How would you prevent whole sale fraud from occurring and how would you ensure compliance in collection of your fair flat tax with out a vast number of bureaucrats and enforcement officials who can police these billions, even trillion points of sales? How are you going to do this with our making your vast bureaucracy created by your prebate even vaster? And you think this would be simpler then with holding income? You're nuts. You're simply not thinking this through.

So let's sum up the weaknesses of your fair flat tax.

It makes the majority of Americans dependent on a staggering huge and costly government entitlement program with the monthly prebates.
It would take the largest bureaucracy in human history to manage and enforce it.
It would be extraordinarly difficult, if not impossible, to keep fraud and abuse to manageable levels.
At the top end of the income scale the scheme is regressive and thus unfair.
It increases the cost of living by over 23%
It would not collect the levels of revenue the present system does with projected annual short falls of $400 billion.
It would require changing our constitution as well as ammending or eliminating the 16th ammendment. A task that would take 10 to 20 years to accomplish even if the political will to do so existed (it does not).
Click to expand...
Mott, seriously? Are you that dumb? Holy fuck.....
 
Damocles said:
Hey... Superfreak. We don't need a sales tax... we'd have to change the constitution... (did I keep a straight face?)

what we need is a simplified code with a standard deduction. That would make a naturally progressive tax code where the rich pay a greater percentage, and the richer you were the higher that percentage would be. Then maybe Mott would stop talking about sales taxes...

:D
Click to expand...

You mean like having two brackets.... one at 20% and one at 30% (for those dollars earned over $1million)? A simple standard deduction of say $30k per adult to protect the low income and middle income individuals/families?

Something simple like that?
 
You are all drinking the koolaid.

Any flat or fair tax will be even more regressive than the present system and have the net effect of further lowering the taxes of the very wealthy.
 
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