Prediction?

[Mott the Hoople]

I didn't see union families mentioned specifically, but if you figure they are part of that 49% of the general population, than I guess you could say that, you could also say 50 % of the People who worked for the military or Wall St, or 50% of non union workers...

So, why target union workers?

We have allowed the government to spend us into a bad place, we either pay now because we are the ones who spent it or suffer the consequences and worse, future generations don't have a chance!

The honest to gods truth is they target union workers because they don't believe that these working class people have earned or are deserving a middle class standard of living. That only elite persons, such as themselves, have the right to negotiate what the market will bear for their services or the products of their labor.

The irony is that the majority of union workers I know are skilled tradesmen. Plumbers, electricians, millwrights, pipe fitter, fabricators, welders, machinist, tool & die makers, etc, etc. These may not be academic professions one learns in college but they are extremely difficult skills that take years of dedication, commitment and hard assed work to learn and to hear people like Damo and Freak call these incredibly talented, skilled and hard working people "Thugs" and "Looters' just makes me fucking sick.

I'd like to take these clowns out into a steel plant for a day and put their asses to work. They either wouldn't last a day or would be singing a different toon in short order.

 

[Damocles]

I didn't see union families mentioned specifically, but if you figure they are part of that 49% of the general population, than I guess you could say that, you could also say 50 % of the People who worked for the military or Wall St, or 50% of non union workers...

So, why target union workers?

We have allowed the government to spend us into a bad place, we either pay now because we are the ones who spent it or suffer the consequences and worse, future generations don't have a chance!

Because you mentioned them.

 

[Damocles]

The honest to gods truth is they target union workers because they don't believe that these working class people have earned or are deserving a middle class standard of living. That only elite persons, such as themselves, have the right to negotiate what the market will bear for their services or the products of their labor.

The irony is that the majority of union workers I know are skilled tradesmen. Plumbers, electricians, millwrights, pipe fitter, fabricators, welders, machinist, tool & die makers, etc, etc. These may not be academic professions one learns in college but they are extremely difficult skills that take years of dedication, commitment and hard assed work to learn and to hear people like Damo and Freak call these incredibly talented, skilled and hard working people "Thugs" and "Looters' just makes me fucking sick.

I'd like to take these clowns out into a steel plant for a day and put their asses to work. They either wouldn't last a day or would be singing a different toon in short order.

Ridiculous. Looters are those that demand recompense they have not earned without responsibility. Most of the ones you listed are more like my grandfather, proud to make a living and to pay their share, however most in public unions and say, CWA or the auto workers are not of the same cloth. You say that "most" are electrician, plumbers, etc. However the numbers do not lie, most union members are in the public sector, only 8% of the private sector's workers are in unions.

When I say looter I am speaking of more than union members and only mentioned those because Rana did. looters are those who demand that others pay still more of a "fair share" when they pay nothing so that they can get a piece of what they haven't earned and will never be thankful for... I see no problem with getting paid what you are due, so long as you are also willing to pay your "fair share" rather than demand a "fair share" from others who already pay the full share.

The rich pay more already, in fact the top 50% (pretty much) pay all of the taxes. Which means that most on this board really are net receivers demanding somebody still pay more of a "fair share" when they already pay all of the share. That's shameful class baiting nonsense, and Americans will see through it.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Ridiculous. Looters are those that demand recompense they have not earned without responsibility. Most of the ones you listed are more like my grandfather, proud to make a living and to pay their share, however most in public unions and say, CWA or the auto workers are not of the same cloth. You say that "most" are electrician, plumbers, etc. However the numbers do not lie, most union members are in the public sector, only 8% of the private sector's workers are in unions.

When I say looter I am speaking of more than union members and only mentioned those because Rana did. looters are those who demand that others pay still more of a "fair share" when they pay nothing so that they can get a piece of what they haven't earned and will never be thankful for... I see no problem with getting paid what you are due, so long as you are also willing to pay your "fair share" rather than demand a "fair share" from others who already pay the full share.

The rich pay more already, in fact the top 50% (pretty much) pay all of the taxes. Which means that most on this board really are net receivers demanding somebody still pay more of a "fair share" when they already pay all of the share. That's shameful class baiting nonsense, and Americans will see through it.

You didn't even read my post. I all ready eviscerated and discredited your comments on taxes. THEY SIMPLY ARE NOT TRUE! The class baiting is people like you who oppose people who HAVE EARNED through their hard work the right to negotiate a fair wage for the product of their labors. Maybe in your elitist eyes that's unearned and looting but I call that fair play!

OH...and btw, you've never even been in an auto plant, have you?

 

[NOVA]

Bull, road apples, the people realize that the millionaires of the USA need to be taxed at a fair rate, we need to raise revenue along with making cuts, those are the cold hard facts.

In order to tax the rich at a fair rate the rest of us would have to make up the difference with higher taxes.....leave it alone.

 

[NOVA]

The kid has a future too and he might be saving for college. I know kids who work their butts off on e slime line, I think they deserve to earn what the adult next to them is earning.

What do you think is a living wage for a teenager? I know a lot of teens who have to help support the family by buying their clothes and paying for car insurance and gas to get to and from work.

I know a lot of kids who live with their single mothers, and a couple who live with their grandparents. A couple of teenagers lived in Anchorsge while their mother moved to Valdez for a job. She helped with the rent when she could.

What kind of teens were you thinking about?

These are the kind of reply s that just don't deserve a response ....
they might be saving for ....whatever
they might have to pay car, life, medical, long term care, whatever insurance....ha...
they might have MS, be obese, be skinny, be tall, bald, in need of a haircut....and a million ridiculous things, might, maybe, could be....

Whats a living wage for John Kerry, Michael Moore, etc.....who cares....
If you work, you should pay SOME INCOME TAX.....everyone should have to experience the bite of the government on their pay checks....everyone needs to have a stake in the economy.....
If you don't pay some kind of tax, you'll get to believe you're special and everyone else needs to pay and you don't.....in Rana world..."those nasty, greedy, rich people"......

 

[Damocles]

You didn't even read my post. I all ready eviscerated and discredited your comments on taxes. THEY SIMPLY ARE NOT TRUE! The class baiting is people like you who oppose people who HAVE EARNED through their hard work the right to negotiate a fair wage for the product of their labors. Maybe in your elitist eyes that's unearned and looting but I call that fair play!

OH...and btw, you've never even been in an auto plant, have you?

I read your post and answered. You simply didn't understand the answer, didn't even seem to read it. All you have done is repeated the same "we are heroes" theme, which I didn't disagree with. I just point out the difference between what I see from unions today and the heroism of the past, and that was only a smaller part of my post. I defined what looters are, and why many in the US have become just that.

Again, the only reason I even mentioned unions is because Rana did. Secondly, 50% of the people in the US don't pay any taxes (they get it all back and more) yet they demand the ones paying all of it to pay still more of a 'fair share"... Many of those people are in those unions. If you aren't paying, yet demanding others pay still more in order to be "fair" you are a looter.

You can only pay a "share" if others are paying with you, you can only demand others to pay a "share" if you too pay something. My grandfather would have utterly rejected any idea that he not pay his share.

 

[Good Luck]

"Living wage"? I am sorry, but some jobs simply are not worth a living wage. Shoving french fries and greasy burgers through a drive-up window is NOT worth a living wage. Shoving dirty dishes through a high-speed industrial dishwasher is NOT worth a living wage. There are damned few entry level, low-skill jobs that are economically worth a living wage. That is the base fact of economics. Demanding a living wage for any and all employment is like saying a loaf of wheat bread should cost the same as a pound of top sirloin steak, or a base model Honda two-door, 4-speed manual transmission and no AC should cost the same as a mini-van with automatic overdrive transmission, AC, auto-everything. To say entry level, low-skill jobs are worth the same as high skill jobs is to demean everyone who has spent the time and effort to attain the knowledge and skills needed to command good paying, living wage jobs.

And let's not forget that not only do the bottom 40% not pay any federal income taxes, but the bottom 20% actually get money back from federal income taxes that they never paid in. The liberals are using our tax system as one more of their wealth-redistribution welfare programs. There are people out there who pay zero in, and get several thousand back come tax day. Yet they still whine about the wealthy paying their "fair share". BULLSHIT! Fair is EVERYONE paying equal portions of their income. Our system is anything but fair, and it is unfair to those who pay the greater share of their income simply because they are more successful. The class warfare of the liberal mindset, preying on the envy of those they subjugate under their federalized welfare traps and socialized economic systems, is without a doubt the primary factor in the current downfall of the world's economy.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

But you still sipport the Kochs.

Since you have been so critical of others, in the past, could you explain what the word "sipport" means?
Thank you, you simpering limey.

 

[Lowaicue]

"Living wage"? I am sorry, but some jobs simply are not worth a living wage. Shoving french fries and greasy burgers through a drive-up window is NOT worth a living wage. Shoving dirty dishes through a high-speed industrial dishwasher is NOT worth a living wage. There are damned few entry level, low-skill jobs that are economically worth a living wage.

It is not whether jobs are worth a living wage, it is whether PEOPLE are worth a living wage.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

It is not whether jobs are worth a living wage, it is whether PEOPLE are worth a living wage.

what is a living wage? what standard do you use?

 

[Conservative]

Rep. Bachmann has won the Iowa poll.

Together with Gov. Perry, and with Gods help, we will take back America.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

. People in the US understand that the measure of evil isn't in what you earn, but that it is in what you take from others that you did not earn.

But you still sipport the Kochs.

lmao...according to you, typos or incorrectly spelled words mean you're not smart.

:lol:

 

[Good Luck]

It is not whether jobs are worth a living wage, it is whether PEOPLE are worth a living wage.

People are worth supporting as necessary, if necessary, as long as three bedroom apartments, cable TV, high speed internet, and high price prepared foods are not part of what people believe is "necessary".

But artificially inflating the value of low-skill labor only results in no jobs instead of low paying jobs, as is evidenced by the infiltration of autoservers in fast food, self-checkout stands in grocers and supermarkets, robots in assembly lines, etc. etc. etc. It is much more difficult for society to support people who cannot find any work, than those who can only find low paying work.

Jobs are worth what they are worth, and it has nothing to do with the economic status of the people who are doing those jobs. Entry level jobs are pathways to better future employment - IF we don't get all teary-eyed and fuck things up so there are no entry level jobs left for human beings because we made it cheaper for machines to do.

 

[Lowaicue]

lmao...according to you, typos or incorrectly spelled words mean you're not smart.

:lol:

I have never said nor implied that I am smarter than the average man. Smarter than you? Yes, of course, but the average man? Not really. Although as a Brit I do have that je ne sais quoi that marks us as a superior race.

 

[Lowaicue]

People are worth supporting as necessary, if necessary, as long as three bedroom apartments, cable TV, high speed internet, and high price prepared foods are not part of what people believe is "necessary".

But artificially inflating the value of low-skill labor only results in no jobs instead of low paying jobs, as is evidenced by the infiltration of autoservers in fast food, self-checkout stands in grocers and supermarkets, robots in assembly lines, etc. etc. etc. It is much more difficult for society to support people who cannot find any work, than those who can only find low paying work.

Jobs are worth what they are worth, and it has nothing to do with the economic status of the people who are doing those jobs. Entry level jobs are pathways to better future employment - IF we don't get all teary-eyed and fuck things up so there are no entry level jobs left for human beings because we made it cheaper for machines to do.

You are missing the point, I think. Every man is worthy of his hire. The value of a 'job' rests in the columns of an accountant's spreadsheet. If there is a menial task to be done then who will perform it? Will you flip burgers? Will you sweep streets? No? Then we must pay someone a fair price to do it for us ... or do the job yourself.

A 16 year old holiday worker who quite clearly does not have a family (one would hope) and is working for pin money and the opportunity of improving his education would be exempt, but society must help that child and all children who need help to fulfill their lives if necessary.

No problem with that.

But a mature individual who is expected to comply with all of society's norms, must be paid fairly for his labours. The alternative would be to dehumanise him (or her) and consign him to life's scrap heap. How far from there to a modern version of the gas chamber?

The value to society of a cleaner or a burger flipper is frequently greater than that of people who are many times better off simply by dint of being born rich.

 

[Lowaicue]

British have rioting in their cities. How are they superior since that is a fact?

If the entire population of the British Isles died tomorrow they would still be superior to many Americans.

 

[Conservative]

Is it somewhat presumptuous of a foreigner to comment on internal American politics? Have you no issues at home that concern you?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

If the entire population of the British Isles died tomorrow they would still be superior to many Americans.

I'm willing to take you up on that scenario.
When will they reporting to their recycling centers, to be used for compost?

 

[Lowaicue]

Is it somewhat presumptuous of a foreigner to comment on internal American politics? Have you no issues at home that concern you?

Yes, of course. Today marks the start of the Festival of the Hungry Ghosts. Today the gates of hell open and the spirits wander abroad. Local believers leave offerings by the side of the road of rice wine, oranges and lunch boxes.

The bells of hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling
For you but not for me.

But it is much more fun to watch the comedy that spills from the open mouths of the American right wing.
Keep it up. There is little humour on TV this morning.