Should Obama step aside?

Rana said:
S&p also stated the downgrade was due to the Republicans refusing to raise revenue, cuts and taxes are both needed!
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Republicans refusal to increase taxes is only an issue with the democrats refusal to reduce spending. Both are not needed. As well revenue increases as GDP increases much more than it does with increases in tax rates. ESPECIALLY in an economy like this. Republicans arent opposed to increasing tax revenue. They are opposed to trying to increase tax revenue now, with tax rate hikes.

Federal Revenue didint go from $2.5 trillion in Bush's last year, to $2.1 trillion in Obamas first, because of tax rate changes. Increasing tax rates wont bring the revenue back.
 
dixon76710 said:
Republicans refusal to increase taxes is only an issue with the democrats refusal to reduce spending. Both are not needed. As well revenue increases as GDP increases much more than it does with increases in tax rates. ESPECIALLY in an economy like this. Republicans arent opposed to increasing tax revenue. They are opposed to trying to increase tax revenue now, with tax rate hikes.

Federal Revenue didint go from $2.5 trillion in Bush's last year, to $2.1 trillion in Obamas first, because of tax rate changes. Increasing tax rates wont bring the revenue back.
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I would very much doubt if most republicans had the foggiest idea abot taxes, revenues, balancing or the economy, but have been intent on tripping the N..... in the Whitehouse whenever they could. I submit that most, if not all the tea party idiots are motivated by similar things as the London rioters. Don't think just destroy.
If I am wrong you should blame your own TV channels and newspapers.
 
Lowaicue said:
I would very much doubt if most republicans had the foggiest idea abot taxes, revenues, balancing or the economy, but have been intent on tripping the N..... in the Whitehouse whenever they could. I submit that most, if not all the tea party idiots are motivated by similar things as the London rioters. Don't think just destroy.
If I am wrong you should blame your own TV channels and newspapers.
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Our TV's and newspapers go around calling (or refering to) Obama (as) a nigger?
 
Lowaicue said:
And now China (Xinhua) are suggesting a new global reserve currency, the RMB. You just don't see these things coming do you?
It won't happen ... yet ... but it will happen.
Why do they suggest this?

SHANGHAI (Dow Jones)--China has "every right now" to demand the U.S. address its debt problem following the Standard and Poor's decision to downgrade U.S. government debt for the first time in 70 years, the official Xinhua news agency said Saturday.

In a biting commentary, the state news agency urged the international society to improve supervision over the U.S. dollar and said the world may need "a new, stable and secured global reserve currency to avert a catastrophe caused by any single country."

"China, the largest creditor of the world's sole superpower, has every right now to demand the United States to address its structural debt problems and ensure the safety of China's dollar assets," Xinhua said.

The remarks came after the Standard & Poor's Friday removed the U.S. government from the list of risk-free borrowers, citing concern about the rising burden of long-term federal debt.

China, with over $1 trillion invested in U.S. Treasurys, is among those that would be most immediately affected by any U.S. default or downgrade.

"To cure its addiction to debts, the United States has to reestablish the common sense principle that one should live within its means," Xinhua said.

"It should also stop its old practice of letting its domestic electoral politics take the global economy hostage and rely on the deep pockets of major surplus countries to make up for its perennial deficits," Xinhua added.

Read, read and read again the final sentence. Read it til you come to your senses ... those of you who still have them.
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Yeah.... he is 100% correct.... and he essentially pounded the point home did he not?

The US has a very big debt problem. It is causing a LOT of concern internationally and those countries who own our debt want us to live within our means and shore up our continuous deficit problem.

As for the reserve currency.... if there was a viable option available today.... the rest of the world wouldn't hesitate to begin the switch. They are sick of us and our spending habits. So no, this is not a shock or a surprise that someone would call for a new reserve currency, they have been calling for that for the past couple of decades.... which is a part of why the Euro was created to begin with.
 
Lowaicue said:
I would very much doubt if most republicans had the foggiest idea abot taxes, revenues, balancing or the economy, but have been intent on tripping the N..... in the Whitehouse whenever they could. I submit that most, if not all the tea party idiots are motivated by similar things as the London rioters. Don't think just destroy.
If I am wrong you should blame your own TV channels and newspapers.
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Yes, you are wrong. It is the democrats who do not understand the relationship between tax rates and revenues. They operate under the belief that raising tax rates will have no economic effect other than to increase revenues, and that the total economy will, for all intents and purposes, ignore the increased bleeding of money into government coffers. This simply is not so. Take more money from the economy in the form of increased tax rates, and the economy will contract in response. The LAST thing we need right now is a contracting economy.

Conversely, fiscal conservatives understand that revenues are far more dependent on GDP that they on basic rates. Despite liberal rhetorical claims (and here is where the media comes in, who with a few exceptions may as well be the propaganda arm of the DNC) the fiscal conservatives (which include a not-insignificant number of democrats, which is why Obama has had so many problems despite his party controlling all of congress his first two years) do NOT oppose increasing tax revenues. In fact, fiscal conservative want revenues to increase - because that will mean the economy is finally, actually, recovering. What we object to is trying to increase revenues by increasing the tax burden on the People - even if it is a select minority of the wealthier people. Raising tax rates on ANYONE by ANY means, in a time of economic downturn is like trying to race a top fuel dragster with its drag chute deployed. We need to increase revenues by getting our economy back on its feet. If we put some ten million unemployed Americans back to work - which is what would happen if real UE were to fall to 6% - that by itself would be worth well over a trillion dollars in annual revenues added to the federal coffers, and without the BS class warfare desire to soak wealthy people even more than they are being soaked. Add in the boost to the GDP of having 10 million more employed, corporate profits, increased wages, etc. etc. etc., and the act of actually FIXING our economy would well produce $2 trillion in additional revenues.

But, NO, the democrats are all focused on their class warfare, penis eny bullshit to want to FIX the economy. They prefer an economy that enhances dependence on the government.
 
Superfreak said:
Yeah.... he is 100% correct.... and he essentially pounded the point home did he not?

The US has a very big debt problem. It is causing a LOT of concern internationally and those countries who own our debt want us to live within our means and shore up our continuous deficit problem.
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If it were actually causing a lot of concern internationally, that concern would show up in the interest rates we pay them to borrow their money. Yet, the interest rate on the 10 year is at its lowest level ever. China continues to buy the shit out of our debt and will continue to buy the shit out of our debt for its own domestic policy reasons.

Superfreak said:
As for the reserve currency.... if there was a viable option available today.... the rest of the world wouldn't hesitate to begin the switch. They are sick of us and our spending habits. So no, this is not a shock or a surprise that someone would call for a new reserve currency, they have been calling for that for the past couple of decades.... which is a part of why the Euro was created to begin with.
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And if the Queen had a c*ck, she'd be King.
 
David St. Hubbins said:
If it were actually causing a lot of concern internationally, that concern would show up in the interest rates we pay them to borrow their money. Yet, the interest rate on the 10 year is at its lowest level ever. China continues to buy the shit out of our debt and will continue to buy the shit out of our debt for its own domestic policy reasons.
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Thanks for once again proving you have no fucking clue when it comes to economics or finance.

1) China has DECREASED exposure to US debt over the past year. They are NOT continuing to 'buy the shit out of our debt'... nor are any other foreign governments.

2) When there is a flight to quality, such as we are seeing right now, the reserve currency will STILL be where people go. The fact is, we are still one of the safe havens on a RELATIVE basis today. The part you don't fucking grasp is that when people bail on Europe and most of its bonds and bail on most countries equity markets as we have seen, the current rates do not reflect where people see our economic viability being in 5-10 years. They are simply trying to avoid getting bludgeoned in the other markets.

3) it is quite comical that when China (the largest foreign holder of our debt) expresses concern over OUR GROWING DEBT PROBLEM... that somehow you think that means that people aren't concerned about WHERE WE ARE HEADED.

4) Separate the 'where we are headed' from the 'where we are as of this moment' and you might be able to wrap that tiny mind around the problem.


And if the Queen had a c*ck, she'd be King.
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The point douche bag is that people have been calling for a new reserve currency for years and there will always be those who shout for such. So stop being a fucking douche bag... the other douche bags are not happy with being associated with your stupidity.
 
We can't afford four more years of rudderless "leadership" with secret plans they won't publish. You, of all people on this board, should remember the result of "secret plans" from a past presidency.
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I've heard you parallel, several times now, Nixon's "secret plan" with Obama's seeming lack of a plan, and I have to take exception. At least with Nixon, he did bomb Cambodia and Laos, giving the impression there was at least some sort of actual "plan" he had in mind... whether it worked, or turned out as he expected or we expected, that is a different matter, but I think you are being overly generous to Obama or overly unfair to Nixon, because as of yet, this president doesn't seem to have ANY plan.
 
Lowaicue said:
Qualified, experienced and wise economists should be meeting together with no sign of red or blue...

Eventually you must increase tax revenue and reduce spending, neither can work on their own.
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1. Economists are political by nature. The issue here is Keynesian verses Austrian economic theory. Keynesian failed, so the obvious solution is to try Austrian. With Obama or Biden in office don't expect it to happen.
2. That is untrue. All that had to be done last week was to to hold the line on spending. If they had done that the S&P rating would have remained at AAA. Instead we got a small slice cut from baseline budgeting, which is an automatic 7% annual growth.
 
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