S&P calls out the Republicans!

If you actually read the press release and that's what you take away from it, you need your head examined. Or remedial reading comprehension. The S&P "upside" scenario assumes that the Bush tax cuts on high earned will lapse. It's clear that S&P thinks increased tax revenues must be part of the overall fiscal policy changes necessary to improve its outlook on US debt.
Yea, you can read the press releases. I read the actual document, in its entirety, which downgrades the credit rating of the U.S. government, and the given reasons for doing so. Did you? Or did you limit yourself to the press release?

I already mentioned the "upside alternate scenario", which includes the assumption that tax rates will be increased on higher income brackets, back to 2000 levels, with an anticipated $940 Billion dollars in increased revenues. I also read that the ONLY result of such a move would be to classify the U.S. credit rating as "AA+ Stable", removing the threat of any immediate further downgrades. Did you read that part? Did you understand it? They are saying that even if congress were to pass the "tax the rich" plan Obama and his mindless cronies keep advocating, it would do very little for the ultimate outlook of the U.S. economy. They most assuredly did NOT say such a move would have prevented the downgrade, and indeed imply quite the opposite, that such a move still would have made no difference because of the minimal impact it would have on the deficit, let alone the debt. The only thing "clear" in the upside alternate scenario is S&P knows full well that increasing revenues won't do shit for the economic situation.

Meanwhile, because the S&P report was not intended to be a comprehensive analysis of potential economic policies, nothing was discussed about the impact raising taxes on millions of small business owners will have on an already flagging economy. But I can guarantee, if/when the feds are STUPID enough to pass Obama's tax increase proposal, the reaction of small business owners will NOT be to start hiring more employees. In fact, the continued threat of increasing tax rates to year-2000 levels is a large factor in the continued stagnation of the economy. Business owners are not going to hire more employees, increasing their business costs, when the federal government is holding increased business costs in the form of higher taxes over their heads. Obama's rhetoric in 2010 was all about taxing those damned rich people (of whom the lower brackets in Obama's "rich" list also happen to provide the vast majority of jobs in our economy) and small businesses put off hiring new employees in spite of the stimulus, because they knew they could not survive the double whammy of increased labor costs AND increased taxes. In a good economy, small businesses could reasonably anticipate increased revenues outpacing the increased labor costs. But that simply is not so in an unstable economy we are currently facing. Not with the additional threat of higher taxes looming. It's a risk they are simply not willing to take.

Putting off the expiration until 2012 instead of simply dealing with it one way or the other was as stupid a move for the health of the economy as has ever been made by any administration of either flavor. Your precious democrats had BOTH houses, a filibuster proof Senate, AND the White House, and were too fucking chicken shit to put their policies in motion (because they knew full well, for all their rhetoric, the PEOPLE hate their stupid assed policies, and with good reason). The result is small business owners sitting on pins and needles, waiting for the ax to fall in 2012, and STILL not hiring because they still cannot survive a double whammy of increased labor costs AND increased taxes in an unstable, unsure economy.

Should Obama actually manage to push his additional idiocy on the economy (as if his health care travesty isn't bad enough) you can anticipate increased unemployment (as if 9+% isn't high enough), decreased business, which in turn will decrease current revenues, offsetting partially, if not entirely, any gains made from the increased rates.

In short, your "gotta increase taxes to increase revenues" is just one more mindless democrat-led mantra of lies and idiocy.

Put people back to work. That will both increase revenues and decrease obligations. Advocate self-employment; get people making their own incomes and paying taxes on them. Encourage entrepreneurs. Get people working on the energy crisis problem via small, individually owned businesses. Small mom-n-pop businesses in new fields, which provide a person or couple with a reasonable, sustainable income, have a historical habit of growing to small, and even larger businesses which employ several, tens, even hundreds of additional employees. Add a few thousand such businesses in a new economic field (such as renewable energy) and you get a growing, thriving economy. THAT is how you increase revenues: with a thriving economy. NOT by further soaking those on whom the current slacking economy depends.
 
I don't see why it matters at all who put the loopholes in place.
It matters because it counters your claim the it was only the republicans who did not support the idea. You say it was the Cantor faction that refused and all dems would have gone along with it. That analysis is simply not true. The Cantor faction could have been countered without needing all that many house republicans to agree to a compromise, and clear sailing in the Senate. Problem is, they didn't have all democrats on board with the idea (I wonder if they even had a majority of dems on board), and were not even assured of even getting the idea passed in the democrat-controlled Senate, let alone a republican controlled house. Getting rid of tax loopholes is much like the health care plan - they would have had to maneuver like hell just to get their own to go with it, let alone get some republicans to agree, and they simply did not have the time for such maneuvers. The aspect of bribing their own with special considerations in order to go along was not available like it was for the health care travesty.
 
If you actually read the press release and that's what you take away from it, you need your head examined. Or remedial reading comprehension. The S&P "upside" scenario assumes that the Bush tax cuts on high earned will lapse. It's clear that S&P thinks increased tax revenues must be part of the overall fiscal policy changes necessary to improve its outlook on US debt.

Here's how tax rates work, for you pinheads who are apparently too ignorant to know... Raising top marginals has NEVER produced more revenues, with the exception of one time, back during the Revolution, when we didn't have a tax before. Each time we have tried to increase it, we've realized LESS revenue, as compared with GDP. Raising income tax rates works on middle class brackets, because the middle class have less options for diverting funds, shelters, foreign investment, and basic 'need' to earn an income. We can raise middle class tax rates and produce more revenue, but no Democrat or Republican is even talking about that. "Taxes on the Rich" will never produce more revenue, because these people are smart... they didn't get wealthy by being stupid. When you raise their rates, you effectively discourage expansion and growth, jobs and revenue production. It dries up and goes away... probably to Indonesia or Taiwan.

Now I don't need to argue this with you people, we have 2.5 years of your policies, your Keynesian philosophy, your class warfare and War on Capitalism... we have a record. We can see what the results are, no economic growth to speak of, no jobs, spiraling inflation, high gas prices, misery! The people can decide if they want 4 more years of this shit or not, it's up to them in November 2012. But it is wholly pointless for us to continue to "argue" about this particular aspect of your stupidity, because the record speaks for itself.

We can go back and look at 3 times in recent history, where top marginal tax rates were REDUCED and it actually produced more revenue as percent of GDP, and sparked economic growth. In 1960 under Kennedy... In 1983 under Reagan... In 1996 under Clinton. All three times the top marginal rates were reduced, it resulted in an increase in revenue. I didn't list Bush's tax cuts, because the increase in revenue to GDP was not met, but this is because the Bush cuts were across the board, every taxpayer got a tax break. This resulted in a more immediate and temporary stimulation of the economy, because of the dynamics of effecting all taxpayers and consumers.

The other option to raise revenues, is to broaden the tax base, include more taxpayers into the system... let more people 'pay their fair share' or 'eat their peas' or whatever... but again, neither Republicans or Democrats are suggesting this. You can broaden the base and LOWER the rate, and it will increase tax revenues tremendously. Currently, the bottom 50% pay only 3% of the taxes... most of that is from the upper end of that 50%... nearly half the country pays NO TAX.... are they 'pulling their weight' ...or... 'paying their share' ...or 'being patriotic' as Biden says?

We need a consumer tax to replace the income tax.
 
What the bejasus is everyone arguing about? S&P downgraded you. The result is the same whether on not they got it right or got it wrong. Your largest creditors have agreed that part of your problem is political in-fighting and the republican party has been given more blame than the democratic party.
Now you have to put it all right. You have screwed up and its down to you, all of you, to grow up and think about your country which at this moment is, to use one of your own terms, going to hell in a hand basket.
I am sure I am right when I assume that the republicans represented on this forum are of somewhat extreme views and do not represent the rest of the party. My god I hope that is the case, for if I am wrong your are so deep in the shit that you will never again assume the role of leader of the western world.
 
What the bejasus is everyone arguing about? S&P downgraded you. The result is the same whether on not they got it right or got it wrong. Your largest creditors have agreed that part of your problem is political in-fighting and the republican party has been given more blame than the democratic party.

I didnt see that part of the report. Republicans refusal to raise taxes is only an issue because the democrats refuse any significant cuts in spending.
 
What the bejasus is everyone arguing about? S&P downgraded you. The result is the same whether on not they got it right or got it wrong. Your largest creditors have agreed that part of your problem is political in-fighting and the republican party has been given more blame than the democratic party.
Now you have to put it all right. You have screwed up and its down to you, all of you, to grow up and think about your country which at this moment is, to use one of your own terms, going to hell in a hand basket.
I am sure I am right when I assume that the republicans represented on this forum are of somewhat extreme views and do not represent the rest of the party. My god I hope that is the case, for if I am wrong your are so deep in the shit that you will never again assume the role of leader of the western world.

No, sadly you're wrong. They are fairly representative of todays Republican party. I was a Republican for a long time. From 1980 to 2004 I was a registered Republican. Mainly cause I was pro main street business and my values are those mainly of the professional class. It actually began in the 80's but was substantially accelerated in the mid 1990s with the advent of right wing radio and Fox News that social conservatives (read angry rural white guys) have come to dominate the Republican party by becoming the witless lap dogs of corporate interest and very wealth plutocrats. Since then the more moderate influences in the party, people who would have been termed "Rockefeller Republicans" have been marginalized and evicted from the party. So now what you hear from Dixie and Bravo and Webway and others here on JPP from the right is fairly representative of todays Republican party politics and it scares the hell out of me.
 
I didnt see that part of the report. Republicans refusal to raise taxes is only an issue because the democrats refuse any significant cuts in spending.

Have you been hiding under a rock? Democrats offered over 4 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years and it was killed by Teabaggers over closing tax loopholes for the rich.
 
Not according to S&P's report:
We view the act's measures as a step toward fiscal consolidation.
However, this is within the framework of a legislative mechanism that leaves
open the details of what is finally agreed to until the end of 2011, and
Congress and the Administration could modify any agreement in the future. Even
assuming that at least $2.1 trillion of the spending reductions the act
envisages are implemented, we maintain our view that the U.S. net general
government debt burden (all levels of government combined, excluding liquid
financial assets) will likely continue to grow.
 
Sounds like the Libtards are upset because they want to $pend more money that they cannot repay.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul will only get you into deep trouble.

Who is going to bail the US Treasury out when they are to big to Fail?

Did you know that the Democratic controled Congress has added almost 7 Trillion to the National debt since 2007

Look at how this monster has spiked since the democrats and Obamao have been in charge.
damn, look at that spike up under obamao.

obama-deficit-2011.jpg


Who would hire these guys to run your business? Then why do voters re-elect them?
 
Just because it can never be said enough.....

It is time for this country to become fiscally responsible. The national debt has increased every fiscal year since 1960. What has happened to the responsibility of the two parties? Both like to point the blame at the other, but in reality neither have been responsible fiscally. It is time for a change. Let’s begin with our tax code. It should be simple enough that the average person can understand it. It should not be filled with thousands of loopholes and deductions. Let us push for the flat tax with a standard deduction and nothing more.

Start with a standard deduction of $30k (adjusted for inflation annually) for each adult and then tax every dollar over that $30k at 20%. This is simple, easy to understand, fair and progressive. It protects the low-income individuals and couples from paying federal income taxes. It provides the middle-income families a lower effective tax rate than the wealthy. This plan would encompass ALL income, including earned income, capital gains and dividend income.

A person making $30k pays an effective rate of 0%.

A person making $50k pays an effective rate of 8%.

A person making $100k pays an effective rate of 14%.

A person making $200k pays en effective rate of 17%.

A person making $1mm pays an effective rate of 19.4%

Everyone has the same deduction and takes it. Which causes the effective tax rate to increase the more you make.

To reduce the national debt I would propose we add an additional temporary bracket to the flat tax. Every dollar over $1 million (again adjusted for inflation annually) would be taxed at 30% rather than 20%. The additional 10% would be mandated to pay down the debt.

It is our responsibility to pay our own way and not dump trillions of dollars of debt on future generations. We need to begin electing leaders that are fiscally responsible. The future of our nation depends upon it. We are our own worst enemy. It will be our ever-increasing debt that leads to our demise. We must act now.

In addition, the point I did not make clear when I first posted the above, there would be no corporate income tax as it is a highly regressive hidden tax on consumers.

Note to MOTT: I first posted this back at the end of 2007.... you know... when Bush was President
 
Are you really trying to present that paragraph as the full report?

Man, is that an embarassing cherrypick...
While you jumped on the Jarod bandwagon when he tried to pass off ONE SENTENCE as the whole report.....
Thats just plain a simple being a hypocrite of first degree....
 
I don't believe in a higher tax rate for anyone, but I also don't believe in loopholes that only the wealthy can take advantage of.

Close the loopholes. Done.
I'll ask you for a second time......what in particular are these alleged loopholes and at what income level do they kick in ? (LINK?)

Do you have a definite amount of money that would be revenue for the government if these "loopholes" were closed ? (LINK)

Or is this stuff just a figment of your imagination ?
 
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