Will It Take a Second Revolution to Get The Wealthy to Pay Higher Taxes?

signalmankenneth

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PAUL BUCHHEIT FOR BUZZFLASH AT TRUTHOUT

In 1786, just ten years after the American Revolution, a large group of debt-ridden farmers rose up against local government and the wealthy
businessmen who sought to maximize profits from their investments in our new country. Small farmers were losing their income and property to a few dozen powerful landowners. Ironically, "Shay's Rebellion" scared the founding fathers into lobbying for a stronger government against the threat of unrestrained democracy.

Today the great majority of us are in the same financial position as those farmers, and it's just as personal. We own less than our parents. Our college graduate children, burdened with tens of thousands of dollars in loans, can't find jobs. We worry about our Social Security and Medicare benefits as wealthy Congressmen tell us these long-time programs waste money.

It gets even more personal:

(1) If you make $50,000 a year, you'd be making $92,000 if median household incomes had just kept pace with the growth of the economy since 1970. That missing $42,000 goes every year to the richest 1% of Americans.

(2) If you make between $35,000 and $200,000, you pay more taxes, percentagewise, than the richest 1% of Americans.

(3) You pay roughly a 6% tax on a pair of shoes. There's a ZERO tax on financial transactions that make up much of the income for the richest 1% of Americans.

The only good solution to all of this is increased taxes on the highest incomes. That would tax the individuals and corporations who benefit most from national security, government-funded infrastructure, and public research that has created profitable modern technologies.

Today, as in 1786, the wealthy and well-connected members of Congress want to make sure they retain control. In 1786 Sam Adams, who had been one of the strongest voices for the Revolution, argued that rebellion in the new Republic should be punishable by death. We need to fight back in 2011 before modern-day Republicans consider Adams' suggestion.

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It's not that simple Ken. First it takes political will. People have been convinced that regressive supply side economic policies are in their best interest. Make the wealthy even wealthier and you will benefit. Politicians today ARE representing their constituencies who sincererly believe this despite the massive evidence to the contrary. Unless large numbers of Americans can be convinced that it's a rising tide which lifts all ships, you will not see either the political will or courage for change.
 
It's not that simple Ken. First it takes political will. People have been convinced that regressive supply side economic policies are in their best interest. Make the wealthy even wealthier and you will benefit. Politicians today ARE representing their constituencies who sincererly believe this despite the massive evidence to the contrary. Unless large numbers of Americans can be convinced that it's a rising tide which lifts all ships, you will not see either the political will or courage for change.

while it is true that you can't have the wealthy basically paying no taxes, the boogeyman of the wealthy paying little or no taxes is also real. i'm for letting the bush tax cuts expire. but to make the wealthy the boogeyman is just plain absurd. even if we raise their taxes, that alone will not save this country. the left is far to focused on class envy and the right is far to focused on saving the wealthy, which, they don't need. there are numerous wealthy people who are ok with higher taxes. folks like dixie don't want to truly acknowledge this. i've posted links of truly wealthy people who have no problem with higher taxes....my problem with that is - if they want higher taxes, no one is stopping them from paying more --> now. my profession is largely liberal and some are truly wealthy. i have yet to meet a conservative tax person in this group. there are a few here that are seriously fucking wealthy, they could quit their job today and never work again. they have no problem with higher taxes.

i think the problem lies with those who are considered wealthy, but are truly not. those making 250K - 1 million. that is a lot of money, but it is not truly wealthy, especially on the coast of, pretty much all, california. i don't think the line in the sand should be 250K. more like 500K or 750K. 250K is not wealthy these days.
 
while it is true that you can't have the wealthy basically paying no taxes, the boogeyman of the wealthy paying little or no taxes is also real. i'm for letting the bush tax cuts expire. but to make the wealthy the boogeyman is just plain absurd. even if we raise their taxes, that alone will not save this country. the left is far to focused on class envy and the right is far to focused on saving the wealthy, which, they don't need. there are numerous wealthy people who are ok with higher taxes. folks like dixie don't want to truly acknowledge this. i've posted links of truly wealthy people who have no problem with higher taxes....my problem with that is - if they want higher taxes, no one is stopping them from paying more --> now. my profession is largely liberal and some are truly wealthy. i have yet to meet a conservative tax person in this group. there are a few here that are seriously fucking wealthy, they could quit their job today and never work again. they have no problem with higher taxes.

i think the problem lies with those who are considered wealthy, but are truly not. those making 250K - 1 million. that is a lot of money, but it is not truly wealthy, especially on the coast of, pretty much all, california. i don't think the line in the sand should be 250K. more like 500K or 750K. 250K is not wealthy these days.

An idea may be to stop focussing on rich individuals and cast an eye to corporations.

For example, it's estimated that if the UK government were to receive the taxes which should be paid by corporations, who employ legions of accountants and tax lawyers in order to avoid paying their fair share, our national deficit would, pretty much, be paid off in a single year.

Why do you think corporations have successfully managed to divert their financial exposure onto the ordinary taxpayer? (clue - who has more money?)
 
The poor can hire Sickmanken and his whole family for cut their grass...the poor are hiring....
 
An idea may be to stop focussing on rich individuals and cast an eye to corporations.

For example, it's estimated that if the UK government were to receive the taxes which should be paid by corporations, who employ legions of accountants and tax lawyers in order to avoid paying their fair share, our national deficit would, pretty much, be paid off in a single year.

Why do you think corporations have successfully managed to divert their financial exposure onto the ordinary taxpayer? (clue - who has more money?)

Just a question. You do understand that corporate taxes are basically a hidden sales tax passed on to consumers... right? It's not like the money they should pay taxes on come from magic, it comes from consumers. The more they pay, the more will pass through to consumers.

I'm not saying they should have holes to hide in, I just want to ensure that we all understand that corporations don't pay taxes, their consumers do.
 
PAUL BUCHHEIT FOR BUZZFLASH AT TRUTHOUT

In 1786, just ten years after the American Revolution, a large group of debt-ridden farmers rose up against local government and the wealthy
businessmen who sought to maximize profits from their investments in our new country. Small farmers were losing their income and property to a few dozen powerful landowners. Ironically, "Shay's Rebellion" scared the founding fathers into lobbying for a stronger government against the threat of unrestrained democracy.

I think this was a Freudian slip, he meant to say "unrestrained capitalism" and not "democracy." Of course, with pinheads, the words are probably interchangeable.

Today the great majority of us are in the same financial position as those farmers, and it's just as personal. We own less than our parents. Our college graduate children, burdened with tens of thousands of dollars in loans, can't find jobs. We worry about our Social Security and Medicare benefits as wealthy Congressmen tell us these long-time programs waste money.

I've not heard that SS and Medicare waste money, I hear they are running out of money. Not saying the massive government programs don't waste money, I'm sure a lot of money is indeed wasted, on administrative costs, on fraud, on things they shouldn't be subsidizing to begin with.. but that's not what anyone is raising a concern about... it's the fact that 70 million Baby Boomers are set to retire, and the system can't handle the load. We know this is coming, we've known it for years, but every time anyone has attempted to address the problem with any sort of partial privatization, it was shut down with fear rhetoric. Basically, we're aboard the Titanic, heading for Niagara Falls.

(1) If you make $50,000 a year, you'd be making $92,000 if median household incomes had just kept pace with the growth of the economy since 1970. That missing $42,000 goes every year to the richest 1% of Americans.

(2) If you make between $35,000 and $200,000, you pay more taxes, percentagewise, than the richest 1% of Americans.

(3) You pay roughly a 6% tax on a pair of shoes. There's a ZERO tax on financial transactions that make up much of the income for the richest 1% of Americans.

An Income Tax rate of 100% on the top 1%, would pay for less than one fiscal quarter of the Obama 2011 deficit.
We could suspend the Constitution and confiscate 100% of all wealth from the Fortune 400 richest people in America... it would barely pay for two years of Obama's deficits.
Obama's debt will surpass the debts of all other predecessors, COMBINED.
Currently, our Debt is at 100% of our GDP.

The only good solution to all of this is increased taxes on the highest incomes. That would tax the individuals and corporations who benefit most from national security, government-funded infrastructure, and public research that has created profitable modern technologies.

That's the one BAD solution we don't want to do. The GOOD solution, is to cut spending dramatically, on things which have the least impact on jobs and the economy. Another GOOD solution, would be to adopt a Balanced Budget Amendment, and hold Congress' feet to the fire on spending in the future. If you want to look at taxes, it might be a good idea to lower corporate tax rates, capital gains taxes, etc. Every time in modern history this has been done, it resulted in increased revenues. But besides creating more revenue, it would also stimulate job growth and economic expansion. You see... what you don't get is, you NEED rich people to do what rich people do! When they are moving and shaking... we are working and prospering.

Today, as in 1786, the wealthy and well-connected members of Congress want to make sure they retain control. In 1786 Sam Adams, who had been one of the strongest voices for the Revolution, argued that rebellion in the new Republic should be punishable by death. We need to fight back in 2011 before modern-day Republicans consider Adams' suggestion.

It's almost blasphemous for a libtard to use the name of such a great man as Adams, or any of our founding fathers, for that matter. You scum-maggots don't give two good shits about this country, how it was founded, or the principles behind it. Your mission is to destroy that and pave the way for Utopian Eurotrash Socialism!
 
you think shay's rebellion was about getting the wealthy to pay more taxes? lmao. have you "passed" your iq test yet? they were upset over HIGH land taxes.

They were upset over forclosures. It wasn't the wealthy who rebelled was it?
 
They were upset over forclosures. It wasn't the wealthy who rebelled was it?

you should at least study up on the rebellion before spouting any more nonsense. the rebellion was not about getting the rich to pay more taxes. you and idiotkenneth claim it was about that. but it wasn't. in fact, they were upset over HIGH TAXES. they did not advocate more taxes on the wealthy. good lord, i can't believe anyone can be as stupid as you.
 
Dune you are so far in over your head right now, you should just shut up and stop posting, and hope everyone forgets what you've said so far.

It's obvious you don't have a clue here, so why not save yourself some embarrassment?

Yeah, Dix, as if you ever understand anything.

Improve
Farmers:
Farmers were unable to pay the debts and taxes on their farms and they were being taken away by the courts. Daniel Shays reasoned that his farm could not be taken away by the court if there was no court. He raised a militia and led an uprising. They started burning down the courts in Western Massachusetts. The idea quickly spread and others began to do the same. At the time the states had very little federal backing and were unable to deal with crisis such as this on their own. The federal government had no authority to step in and help them under the Articles of the Confederation. This event was a major factor in the creation of the Constitution.

Soldiers:
Shay's Rebellion was a product of the American Revolution. Many soldiers were not paid adequately in service during the struggle, as the colonies were revolting. These soldiers were farmers who had to leave their homes to fight. When the colonies were freed from Britain, the government was unstable, as there was no strong economy nor domestic manufacturing abilities. Many veterans of the war were angry that the government could not support them. Many vets were so far into debt that they were put into debtors jails. 1000 or so men marched to Springfield and burned most of the town and freed the debtors. Washington sent troops to suppress the rebellion and most participants were pardoned. This rebellion drew attention to a key problem in the government. It received the attention from prominent citizens like George Washington and raised the feeling of Nationalism in the states.


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_cause_and_effect_of_Shay's_Rebellion#ixzz1UNfib5B2
 
while it is true that you can't have the wealthy basically paying no taxes, the boogeyman of the wealthy paying little or no taxes is also real. i'm for letting the bush tax cuts expire. .

In 2001 the top 1% income earners paid 33.89% of all Federal Income taxes. In 2008 the top 1% income earners paid 38.02% of all federal income taxes, even though their tax rates declined.

And where does the assertion that the wealthy are basically paying no taxes come from?
 
you should at least study up on the rebellion before spouting any more nonsense. the rebellion was not about getting the rich to pay more taxes. you and idiotkenneth claim it was about that. but it wasn't. in fact, they were upset over HIGH TAXES. they did not advocate more taxes on the wealthy. good lord, i can't believe anyone can be as stupid as you.

I claim that where Yurt?
 
I claim that where Yurt?

you're truly unreal. post 9. you countered my claim by pointing me to the OP. thus, you and ken spouted the same bullshit. now, that you've been educated, you realize how stupid you are and you're doing your best to furiously back peddle after making the embarrassing post 9. you claimed that i need to read the OP to find the first revolution we had to get the wealthy to pay more taxes. the OP talks about shay's rebellion. you stupidly thought that ken was right because he is a liberal. of course it took a conservative to show you the truth.
 
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