30 Years Ago Today: The Middle Class Died

Originally Posted by cawacko
Ahhh, it's sweet, the troll likes you WinterBorn. Channeling my inner Bill Murray from Caddyshack "So I have that going for me, which is nice."
LOL! Its not often a quote from Caddy Shack applies here, huh?

I guess I am not happy about cawacko's wacko insitence that I am a troll.

Its about perception. If Cawacko preceives you as a troll, then the quote applies.

Actually, if someone doesn't care if they are liked or not, the quote still applies.



Reasonable enough?
 
Originally Posted by cawacko
Ahhh, it's sweet, the troll likes you WinterBorn. Channeling my inner Bill Murray from Caddyshack "So I have that going for me, which is nice."
LOL! Its not often a quote from Caddy Shack applies here, huh?

I guess I am not happy about cawacko's wacko insitence that I am a troll.

what a pussy. you're running around the board creating multiple threads and posts about new posters who you claim are all trolls, but it makes you grumpy when you're called a troll....gtfo
 
Oh, my apologies. I forgot where I was for a minute.

How about this........

You scum-sucking faggot! I'll post whatever I want. Obama is a socialist who wants to destroy this nation!! The Tea Party is a bunch of racists who want our poor to die of starvation!



Better?

Much.

3-D swirling shit, instead of contributing something, as usual. Why don't you go have a beer? It is afternoon somewhere.
 
Amazing the self delusion some will commit to cling to their (failed) political belief system.

In 1981 people were already complaining that it was no longer feasible to raise a family on a single income. The term "latchkey children", which was coined during WWII to describe the phenomenon of children coming home from school to an empty house due to one parent fighting the war and the other parent working, returned for a while in the late 70s.

But the why of it all escapes us. It escapes us because we are, without a doubt, the most willfully spoiled bunch of silver-spooners society in all history. To understand why the middle class has shrunk so much, we need to look at our definition of middle class.

In the 1950s, we were riding an economic high. Production (thus employment) was up because the Cold War started before the economic downturn from our WWII debts could be felt. But middle class was far different than what we view as middle class today. In the 1950s, middle class included a family living in a 2-3 bedroom, usually single bath (hence all the sit-coms showing fights over bathroom times). Less than 50% had any garage, less than 20% had attached garages. Children often slept in a single room. Those considered toward the upper levels of middle class could afford to separate the children by gender. The average middle class family had a single car, mostly driven by the adult with the full time job. Children rode bikes, even into their late teens and up.

Come the 60s and things start changing. by the mid 60s it was becoming more and more common for older teens to attain (usually through working in some fashion) their own vehicle. With feminism working (still mostly in the background, but still prevalent) more women were entering the workforce creating the two-income family. Expectations were shifting. The view of the average middle income family is starting to add rooms to the typical middle-class house, and add cars to the driveways and garages.

By the 70s, the 50s view of middle class was considered "quaint". No longer was it acceptable for 2-3 children share a single bedroom. Now its expected that some, if not all children get their own room. Sitcoms pounce on the phenomenon showing older children fighting over whose turn it is to get their own room. Older teens were almost expected to attain their own cars during high school, which mostly meant barely-running "clunkers" from the 50s, purchased via wages from after-school jobs at McDonald's. The transition of what we call middle class continues, with the definition being based on higher and higher levels of wealth.

Come the 80's, two-income households are now the standard instead of the exception. And, no, it was NOT because Reagan refused to let a few thousand people hold the entire country hostage. It was simply the continuation of a trend started 30 (some say 40) years prior. By 1980 the middle class home included a room for each child (minimum) and several bathrooms. And now each child's room often includes their own television. The percentage of garages not only went way up, but the typical size increased from single-car to two. Upper middle class would have 3-car garages. And, yes, they would be filled, and with nicer cars.

In the 90s the trend continues, but there are cracks showing. The definition of middle class of the 90's would more evenly match the definition of upper-class of the 50s. Then the tech bubble hit, and the definition of middle class derives and even higher level of wealth.

Comes the turn of the millennium (but actually began with the tech bubble bursting in late 1998), and it is more and more readily apparent that the numbers of families in the U.S. able to achieve the status of middle class is shrinking. However, more families than in the 1950s are living in their own homes, more families than ever own more than a single car, the idea of going without color cable TV is considered ludicrous, and even lower class households commonly have one or more household computers with high speed internet access.

So I ask: is the "failing" of the economy to sustain a "middle class" due to the economic policies the last 30 years, or could it possibly be due to our spoiled, silver-spoon attitudes having redefined middle class to a level of wealth that would have been envied in the 50s?
 
08Reagan.jpg

You can't rewrite history to change the electoral map of 1984. Too bad.
 
You can't rewrite history to change the electoral map of 1984. Too bad.

I can't change the electoral map, and you can't change the FACT Reagan was the biggest socialist in our nations history. He redistributed $3 trillion dollars of wealth from the middle class to the opulent.

4343827116_805f053e29_o.jpg
 
Amazing the self delusion some will commit to cling to their (failed) political belief system.

In 1981 people were already complaining that it was no longer feasible to raise a family on a single income. The term "latchkey children", which was coined during WWII to describe the phenomenon of children coming home from school to an empty house due to one parent fighting the war and the other parent working, returned for a while in the late 70s.

But the why of it all escapes us. It escapes us because we are, without a doubt, the most willfully spoiled bunch of silver-spooners society in all history. To understand why the middle class has shrunk so much, we need to look at our definition of middle class.

In the 1950s, we were riding an economic high. Production (thus employment) was up because the Cold War started before the economic downturn from our WWII debts could be felt. But middle class was far different than what we view as middle class today. In the 1950s, middle class included a family living in a 2-3 bedroom, usually single bath (hence all the sit-coms showing fights over bathroom times). Less than 50% had any garage, less than 20% had attached garages. Children often slept in a single room. Those considered toward the upper levels of middle class could afford to separate the children by gender. The average middle class family had a single car, mostly driven by the adult with the full time job. Children rode bikes, even into their late teens and up.

Come the 60s and things start changing. by the mid 60s it was becoming more and more common for older teens to attain (usually through working in some fashion) their own vehicle. With feminism working (still mostly in the background, but still prevalent) more women were entering the workforce creating the two-income family. Expectations were shifting. The view of the average middle income family is starting to add rooms to the typical middle-class house, and add cars to the driveways and garages.

By the 70s, the 50s view of middle class was considered "quaint". No longer was it acceptable for 2-3 children share a single bedroom. Now its expected that some, if not all children get their own room. Sitcoms pounce on the phenomenon showing older children fighting over whose turn it is to get their own room. Older teens were almost expected to attain their own cars during high school, which mostly meant barely-running "clunkers" from the 50s, purchased via wages from after-school jobs at McDonald's. The transition of what we call middle class continues, with the definition being based on higher and higher levels of wealth.

Come the 80's, two-income households are now the standard instead of the exception. And, no, it was NOT because Reagan refused to let a few thousand people hold the entire country hostage. It was simply the continuation of a trend started 30 (some say 40) years prior. By 1980 the middle class home included a room for each child (minimum) and several bathrooms. And now each child's room often includes their own television. The percentage of garages not only went way up, but the typical size increased from single-car to two. Upper middle class would have 3-car garages. And, yes, they would be filled, and with nicer cars.

In the 90s the trend continues, but there are cracks showing. The definition of middle class of the 90's would more evenly match the definition of upper-class of the 50s. Then the tech bubble hit, and the definition of middle class derives and even higher level of wealth.

Comes the turn of the millennium (but actually began with the tech bubble bursting in late 1998), and it is more and more readily apparent that the numbers of families in the U.S. able to achieve the status of middle class is shrinking. However, more families than in the 1950s are living in their own homes, more families than ever own more than a single car, the idea of going without color cable TV is considered ludicrous, and even lower class households commonly have one or more household computers with high speed internet access.

So I ask: is the "failing" of the economy to sustain a "middle class" due to the economic policies the last 30 years, or could it possibly be due to our spoiled, silver-spoon attitudes having redefined middle class to a level of wealth that would have been envied in the 50s?

The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived and dishonest – but the myth – persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
President John F. Kennedy

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Families have survived the ups and downs of economic booms and busts for a long time, but the fall-behind during the busts has gotten worse while the surge-ahead during the booms has stalled out. In the boom of the 1960s, for example, median family income jumped by 33% (adjusted for inflation). But the boom of the 2000s resulted in an almost-imperceptible 1.6% increase for the typical family. While Wall Street executives and others who owned lots of stock celebrated how good the recovery was for them, middle class families were left empty-handed.

The crisis facing the middle class started more than a generation ago. Even as productivity rose, the wages of the average fully-employed male have been flat since the 1970s.

2009-12-03-warren12.jpg


But core expenses kept going up. By the early 2000s, families were spending twice as much (adjusted for inflation) on mortgages than they did a generation ago -- for a house that was, on average, only ten percent bigger and 25 years older. They also had to pay twice as much to hang on to their health insurance.

To cope, millions of families put a second parent into the workforce. But higher housing and medical costs combined with new expenses for child care, the costs of a second car to get to work and higher taxes combined to squeeze families even harder. Even with two incomes, they tightened their belts. Families today spend less than they did a generation ago on food, clothing, furniture, appliances, and other flexible purchases -- but it hasn't been enough to save them. Today's families have spent all their income, have spent all their savings, and have gone into debt to pay for college, to cover serious medical problems, and just to stay afloat a little while longer.

More at: America Without a Middle Class
 
now I understand BFGED and dune are mondale democrats.

Walter Mondale was a fine public servant. At least he was HONEST...he told Americans:

“Mr. Reagan will raise taxes; and so will I. He won't tell you. I just did.”

Reagan actually ended up raising taxes - eleven times.
 
God bless Michael Moore; a guy who tells the truth no matter how uncomfortable it makes people feel. And Micheal is right, Ronald Reagan was the pied piper on the road to serfdom. Ronbo was the biggest socialist in American history, he redistributed wealth from the hard working middle class to the opulent and elite. Reagan was a staunch socialist, totally committed to his cause of wealth redistribution towards the affluent. How much wealth transfer has occurred through Reagan’s policies? At least $3 trillion.

BTW, for over 200 years, the term "entitlement" referred to aristocrats. Aristocrats had titles, and they thought that they were thereby entitled to various things, particularly the deference of the common people.

Reagan: The great American Socialist

4343827116_805f053e29_o.jpg

1) Michael Moore is a dishonest hack

2) Funny how it is Reagan that launched the tax cuts according to you.... I wonder why you didn't mention the drop KENNEDY enacted. Thanks again for showing what a hack you are.
 
Ah, the over consumption MYTH...typical right wing parrot talk...LOL

PLEASE give us the 'liberal policies' that caused the cost of housing to go up to ridiculous levels?

2009-12-03-warren34.jpg

1) Thank you for demonstrating conclusively that the Median income went UP, not down on an inflation adjusted basis. Thus, the buying power of the middle class is HIGHER than it was in 1970.

2) As income goes up, the percentage of income spent on goods will tend to go DOWN you idiot. Especially as the price of those goods ALSO comes down.

3) Home prices escalated due to the two parties trying to get 'more home owners than ever before'. Those policies you are looking for are the CRA, the 'Fair' lending act and the repeal of glass Steagall.

4) Health insurance escalation began when the idiots in DC decided corporations should have 'guaranteed coverage plans' under HMO's and PPO's.

5) Child care services escalated because we decided to regulate the industry. Now in most states the child care services have to be licensed professionals. (which is an example of good regulation) In addition, we now have many families that have dual incomes, which increased the demand for child care services. That causes the price to escalate on the whole as well.
 
1) Michael Moore is a dishonest hack

2) Funny how it is Reagan that launched the tax cuts according to you.... I wonder why you didn't mention the drop KENNEDY enacted. Thanks again for showing what a hack you are.

I posted that Michael Moore has no problem lying, but the only responses I got were about how respected I was. lmao
 
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