S & P Math is off By about $2 Trillion...

http://politicsplusstuff.blogspot.com/2011/08/s-downgrade-of-us-debt-not-financial.html

The Tea Party Teabagged itself, and will pay heavily come the next cycle, then be forgotten.

T.P= a bunch of white squares who were on a roll but are full of shit and about to be flushed.

That might make sense if, say, that was what was happening to the nations that preceded the US into a debt crisis. But the reality is, it is leftist policies of government dependence that are causing the economic failures across the globe. Cradle to grave care is going to end, and only the self-delusional in this nation aren't paying attention to that reality.

The Openwiders are too busy thinking they are clever by calling people "Teabaggers" to notice the utter failure of their policies across the globe.
 
That might make sense if, say, that was what was happening to the nations that preceded the US into a debt crisis. But the reality is, it is leftist policies of government dependence that are causing the economic failures across the globe. Cradle to grave care is going to end, and only the self-delusional in this nation aren't paying attention to that reality.

The Openwiders are too busy thinking they are clever by calling people "Teabaggers" to notice the utter failure of their policies across the globe.

Bullshit Damo.....I was a Republican far to long to fall for a piece of brain dead crap like that. Though there is plenty of blame to go around the facts are that the Republican party is far and away repsonsible for our current long term structural debt mess. They are far and away the largest guilty party with debt spending and not Democrat. Reagan started the drunken spending party by putting us trillions into debt. Clinton had us back on the track to fiscal responsibility and Bush fucked it all away with the most irresponsible Presidential administration in US history. He not only fucked it all away by legislating a tax cut for the wealthy at a time of war but proceeded to get us into that bottomless pit and uneccessary immoral war in Iraq that has cost us hundreds of billions alone. To show just how disengenous you are, you never said squat about the horrific levels of spending by Bush. 6 Trillion in deficit spending and in the slightly over 2 trillion in Deficit spending by the Obama administration over a trillion of that was inherited from Bush bailing out his Wall Street buddies after they screwed the pooch so Bush's defict is really closer to 7 trillion and you you still persist on ignoring that while making irrational and illogical partisan attacks on the President. Well the President hasn't exactly impressed anyone with his leadership in getting us out the mess that your Messiah Bush drove us into. The question for you, if you expect to have any credibility is where the hell where you when Bush spent 7 times what Obama has and you can't possibly expect us to take you serious that you now all of a sudden caught the religion of being a deficit hawk....yea...right.

Now it's time to fish or cut bait and blaming Republicans for the royal fucking mess they made of things isn't getting the job done or fixing any problems, regardless of that being the truth. Neither is Democrats unispired leadership for that matter. It's time to start fixing problems and getting rid of the people who are the problem.
 
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Treasury Notes


Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake
By: John Bellows
8/6/2011

In a document provided to Treasury on Friday afternoon, Standard and Poor’s (S&P) presented a judgment about the credit rating of the U.S. that was based on a $2 trillion mistake. After Treasury pointed out this error – a basic math error of significant consequence – S&P still chose to proceed with their flawed judgment by simply changing their principal rationale for their credit rating decision from an economic one to a political one.

S&P has said their decision to downgrade the U.S. was based in part on the fact that the Budget Control Act, which will reduce projected deficits by more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years, fell short of their $4 trillion expectation for deficit reduction. Clearly, in that context, S&P considers a $2 trillion change to projected deficits to be very significant. Yet, although S&P's math error understated the deficit reduction in the Budget Control Act by $2 trillion, they found this same sum insignificant in this instance.

In fact, S&P’s $2 trillion mistake led to a very misleading picture of debt sustainability – the foundation for their initial judgment. This mistake undermined the economic justification for S&P’s credit rating decision. Yet after acknowledging their mistake, S&P simply removed a prominent discussion of the economic justification from their document.

In their initial, incorrect estimates, S&P projected that the debt as a share of GDP would rise rapidly through the middle of the decade, and they cited this as a primary reason for a downgrade.

In S&P’s corrected estimates – which lowered S&P's projection of future deficits by $2 trillion over 10 years and lowered S&P's estimate of debt as a share of GDP in 2021 by 8 percentage points - public debt is much more stable.

More

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I REALLY believe S&P needs to be investigated. This whole thing doesn't pass the sniff test.
 
I REALLY believe S&P needs to be investigated. This whole thing doesn't pass the sniff test.

Of course they need to be investigated, and then prosecuted. They were complicit in the credit default swap debacle that led to the collapse of the world economy.

This whole thread is merely Damos effort to deflect blame away from the Tea Party disaster he stubbornly supports.
 
i love how the wacko far left liberals whine that it is all the tea party's fault....80 or so reps against the senate and the WH....why is it you liberal nutcases don't give any responsibility to obama or the dems?
 
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wsbZB.jpg

SubPage_Blog.jpg


Treasury Notes


Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake
By: John Bellows
8/6/2011

In a document provided to Treasury on Friday afternoon, Standard and Poor’s (S&P) presented a judgment about the credit rating of the U.S. that was based on a $2 trillion mistake. After Treasury pointed out this error – a basic math error of significant consequence – S&P still chose to proceed with their flawed judgment by simply changing their principal rationale for their credit rating decision from an economic one to a political one.

S&P has said their decision to downgrade the U.S. was based in part on the fact that the Budget Control Act, which will reduce projected deficits by more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years, fell short of their $4 trillion expectation for deficit reduction. Clearly, in that context, S&P considers a $2 trillion change to projected deficits to be very significant. Yet, although S&P's math error understated the deficit reduction in the Budget Control Act by $2 trillion, they found this same sum insignificant in this instance.

In fact, S&P’s $2 trillion mistake led to a very misleading picture of debt sustainability – the foundation for their initial judgment. This mistake undermined the economic justification for S&P’s credit rating decision. Yet after acknowledging their mistake, S&P simply removed a prominent discussion of the economic justification from their document.

In their initial, incorrect estimates, S&P projected that the debt as a share of GDP would rise rapidly through the middle of the decade, and they cited this as a primary reason for a downgrade.

In S&P’s corrected estimates – which lowered S&P's projection of future deficits by $2 trillion over 10 years and lowered S&P's estimate of debt as a share of GDP in 2021 by 8 percentage points - public debt is much more stable.

More

s6j90.jpg


yeah, I don't think Damo posted this because he thought S&P overestimated debt by $2 trillion.
 
Bullshit Damo.....I was a Republican far to long to fall for a piece of brain dead crap like that. Though there is plenty of blame to go around the facts are that the Republican party is far and away repsonsible for our current long term structural debt mess. They are far and away the largest guilty party with debt spending and not Democrat. Reagan started the drunken spending party by putting us trillions into debt. Clinton had us back on the track to fiscal responsibility and Bush fucked it all away with the most irresponsible Presidential administration in US history. He not only fucked it all away by legislating a tax cut for the wealthy at a time of war but proceeded to get us into that bottomless pit and uneccessary immoral war in Iraq that has cost us hundreds of billions alone. To show just how disengenous you are, you never said squat about the horrific levels of spending by Bush. 6 Trillion in deficit spending and in the slightly over 2 trillion in Deficit spending by the Obama administration over a trillion of that was inherited from Bush bailing out his Wall Street buddies after they screwed the pooch so Bush's defict is really closer to 7 trillion and you you still persist on ignoring that while making irrational and illogical partisan attacks on the President. Well the President hasn't exactly impressed anyone with his leadership in getting us out the mess that your Messiah Bush drove us into. The question for you, if you expect to have any credibility is where the hell where you when Bush spent 7 times what Obama has and you can't possibly expect us to take you serious that you now all of a sudden caught the religion of being a deficit hawk....yea...right.

Now it's time to fish or cut bait and blaming Republicans for the royal fucking mess they made of things isn't getting the job done or fixing any problems, regardless of that being the truth. Neither is Democrats unispired leadership for that matter. It's time to start fixing problems and getting rid of the people who are the problem.

Amerocentric nonsense. It is stupid to try to blame a political party for a global crisis.
 
yeah, I don't think Damo posted this because he thought S&P overestimated debt by $2 trillion.

Actually that is why I posted it. And I posted it before their "answer"...

Clearly they planned on doing this regardless and simply changed the argument to match the result they wanted. This kind of crap ticks me off. Worse, they did it bald faced.
 
Still at it I see. Damn the facts, I guess.

What facts? He ignored my argument and went off on an idiot tangent that had nothing to do with what I said and tried to blame it all on one party.

We absolutely cannot afford to follow Europe into economic suicide. Saying we "must" take on that policy so we can "care for the least among us" takes deliberate ignorance.
 
S&P has said their decision to downgrade the U.S. was based in part on the fact that the Budget Control Act, which will reduce projected deficits by more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years, fell short of their $4 trillion expectation for deficit reduction.

And now, the facts:

We view the act's measures as a step toward fiscal consolidation.
However, this is within the framework of a legislative mechanism that leaves
open the details of what is finally agreed to until the end of 2011, and
Congress and the Administration could modify any agreement in the future. Even
assuming that at least $2.1 trillion of the spending reductions the act
envisages are implemented, we maintain our view that the U.S. net general
government debt burden (all levels of government combined, excluding liquid
financial assets) will likely continue to grow.
http://www.standardandpoors.com/ser...lobwhere=1243942957443&blobheadervalue3=UTF-8
 
Bullshit Damo.....I was a Republican far to long to fall for a piece of brain dead crap like that. Though there is plenty of blame to go around the facts are that the Republican party is far and away repsonsible for our current long term structural debt mess. They are far and away the largest guilty party with debt spending and not Democrat. Reagan started the drunken spending party by putting us trillions into debt.

Who controlled CONGRESS and thus the budget when Reagan was President?
Clinton had us back on the track to fiscal responsibility

Who controlled CONGRESS and thus the budget when 'Clinton got us back on track'?

Who repealed Glass Steagall?

and Bush fucked it all away with the most irresponsible Presidential administration in US history.

Absolutely one of the worst in fiscal terms. Then came Obama and he is determined to prove just how bad a President can be.

Also.... WHO controlled Congress and thus the Budget from 2007-2012??

He not only fucked it all away by legislating a tax cut for the wealthy at a time of war but proceeded to get us into that bottomless pit and uneccessary immoral war in Iraq that has cost us hundreds of billions alone. To show just how disengenous you are, you never said squat about the horrific levels of spending by Bush.

Now you just resort to lying. Many of us commented on Bush's liberal spending policies. ESPECIALLY after Pelosi and Reid took over.

6 Trillion in deficit spending and in the slightly over 2 trillion in Deficit spending by the Obama administration over a trillion of that was inherited from Bush bailing out his Wall Street buddies after they screwed the pooch so Bush's defict is really closer to 7 trillion and you you still persist on ignoring that while making irrational and illogical partisan attacks on the President. Well the President hasn't exactly impressed anyone with his leadership in getting us out the mess that your Messiah Bush drove us into. The question for you, if you expect to have any credibility is where the hell where you when Bush spent 7 times what Obama has and you can't possibly expect us to take you serious that you now all of a sudden caught the religion of being a deficit hawk....yea...right.

How much of that spending was under a DEM led Congress?

Now it's time to fish or cut bait and blaming Republicans for the royal fucking mess they made of things isn't getting the job done or fixing any problems, regardless of that being the truth. Neither is Democrats unispired leadership for that matter. It's time to start fixing problems and getting rid of the people who are the problem.

Exactly.... which is why it is time to get rid of Obama.
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/05/usa-ratings-cnbc-idUSN1E77421K20110805

Apparently, the figures they used to downgrade the US were off by a couple trillion dollars...

I'll add more as I get more information.


This is coming from the same credit rating agency that rated Enron 'investment grade' four days prior to its collapse, the same rating agency that rated subprime debt packages AAA.

These rating agencies need to be held accountable. They act with impunity. They think they are above the fray. Like the consumer credit rating agencies, we need them to explain EXACTLY how their ratings are being derived. They are more and more becoming like global warming fear mongers who refuse to show their calculations and instead just say 'trust us'.
 
This is coming from the same credit rating agency that rated Enron 'investment grade' four days prior to its collapse, the same rating agency that rated subprime debt packages AAA.

These rating agencies need to be held accountable. They act with impunity. They think they are above the fray. Like the consumer credit rating agencies, we need them to explain EXACTLY how their ratings are being derived. They are more and more becoming like global warming fear mongers who refuse to show their calculations and instead just say 'trust us'.

Didn't they list all those toxic mortgage bundles as AAA? Why are we listening to them to begin with?
 
This is coming from the same credit rating agency that rated Enron 'investment grade' four days prior to its collapse, the same rating agency that rated subprime debt packages AAA.

These rating agencies need to be held accountable. They act with impunity. They think they are above the fray. Like the consumer credit rating agencies, we need them to explain EXACTLY how their ratings are being derived. They are more and more becoming like global warming fear mongers who refuse to show their calculations and instead just say 'trust us'.

I read some speculation this morning that S&P is running a big short for themselves. Something about this whole thing doesn't seem right, and they were certainly over-defensive once they were called on their error.
 
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