Should Obama step aside?

[Lowaicue]

STOP!

This is NOT a question of party politics. This is not a question of whether the Republicans or the Democrats can run your country better.

It's about this:

Yesterday, (my yesterday not yours) Standard and Poor knocked your credit rating down one notch. At the same time European, American and Asian markets plummetted by an average of 5%. Five percent!

The European leaders with the notable exception of the schoolboys who are failing to run the UK and at this moment are sunning themselves in California, France and Italy, are meeting to discuss the looming problem of Italian and Spanish finances.

There are NO party politics in these discussions. There is a working for the common good of Europe.

A similar scenario in the US would be Obama in a corner talking to himself.

This is not like 2008. This is NOT about politics. Not about banker's greed, not about sub prime mortgages. This is a global problem and it must be tackled globally. Qualified, experienced and wise economists should be meeting together with no sign of red or blue because if Moody's and or Fitch also knock you back you are going to be so deep in the crap that it will be literally years before you recover. And that means the rest of the world will be with you in the said crap.

Obama should immediately form a cross party advisory group and then take a break. His position as president is quite likely to be meaningless unless your economy and the economies of the rest of the world are rescued.

Eventually you must increase tax revenue and reduce spending, neither can work on their own. But, no matter what the vociferous members of this forum may say, none of you, not one of you, is capable of even advising on policy without party politics clouding and sometimes obscuring your vision.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen is a very major and significant problem.


And it affects ME! So stop this eternal childish bickering and start to pull together.

 

[Disillusioned]

And now come the political arguements...


Personally I don't think Obama stepping aside would matter, the result would probably be somebody else more concerned with acting like "Not Obama" rather than actually doing a good job, it would become an issue of "I'm doing a better job than the other side would in my position so yay me" however it would be nice to take a break from all the backbiting and bureucracy that lead to our recent game of chicken over the debt.

 

[Damocles]

I agree, this is a global debt crisis, that Obama tries to solve with more debt and no assurance to pay. I told Onceler in an earlier thread (he called me insane) that a Balanced Budget Amendment was the only way to save our credit rating as it would more than reassure, but would ensure that we would absolutely pay our debt once the crisis had passed.

There really is no way to save this thing without absolute assurance, making deals that "promise" future cuts that will never come as there is zero power to stop future congresses from spending more are absolutely worthless.

It's here, it is now, and more incredible inflationary debt is absolutely not the cure for it. It is global, and it underlines the utter failure of the debt economy and absolutely proves the theory that democracy only survives until the people understand that they can vote themselves largess.

I'm ranting. But it is firmly grounded in reality and observation.

Of course, the nations in Europe are responsible for their own debt, the idea that the US is to blame for their debt is stupid.

 

[Damocles]

And now come the political arguements...


Personally I don't think Obama stepping aside would matter, the result would probably be somebody else more concerned with acting like "Not Obama" rather than actually doing a good job, it would become an issue of "I'm doing a better job than the other side would in my position so yay me" however it would be nice to take a break from all the backbiting and bureucracy that lead to our recent game of chicken over the debt.

If Obama stepped aside, his life insurance (whom we affectionately call Joe Biden) would be President.

 

[Bonestorm]

Just for a little perspective:

 

[Alias]

Obama should not run. He should announce he will not seek his party's nomination and will finish his term. Then the Democrats can go through the process just like the Republicans and America can correct this massive mistake.

 

[Lowaicue]

Obama should not run. He should announce he will not seek his party's nomination and will finish his term. Then the Democrats can go through the process just like the Republicans and America can correct this massive mistake.

Your mention, even in passing, of Democrats and Republicans, rather misses my point.

 

[Lowaicue]

I agree, this is a global debt crisis, that Obama tries to solve with more debt and no assurance to pay. I told Onceler in an earlier thread (he called me insane) that a Balanced Budget Amendment was the only way to save our credit rating as it would more than reassure, but would ensure that we would absolutely pay our debt once the crisis had passed.

There really is no way to save this thing without absolute assurance, making deals that "promise" future cuts that will never come as there is zero power to stop future congresses from spending more are absolutely worthless.

It's here, it is now, and more incredible inflationary debt is absolutely not the cure for it. It is global, and it underlines the utter failure of the debt economy and absolutely proves the theory that democracy only survives until the people understand that they can vote themselves largess.

I'm ranting. But it is firmly grounded in reality and observation.

Of course, the nations in Europe are responsible for their own debt, the idea that the US is to blame for their debt is stupid.

Europe is responsible for its own debt to a point as America is responsible for its own debt to a point. We are in 2011 and the butterfly still flaps its wings but the result travels further and faster.

 

[Disillusioned]

If Obama stepped aside, his life insurance (whom we affectionately call Joe Biden) would be President.

I had rather assumed that Obama stepping aside would also include Biden, but I take the point

 

[Phantasmal]

S&p also stated the downgrade was due to the Republicans refusing to raise revenue, cuts and taxes are both needed!

 

[Alias]

Your mention, even in passing, of Democrats and Republicans, rather misses my point.

In my opinion, that would be the best thing to do for America. The solution is to cut spending. Raising taxes is not going to happen. That's what the American people said last November.

 

[Damocles]

S&p also stated the downgrade was due to the Republicans refusing to raise revenue, cuts and taxes are both needed!

Raise revenue by getting people to work. The only source of revenue is taxpayers, if you must raise revenue but cannot get congress to raise rates, your only other option is to increase the number of taxpayers.

Instead we find that Obama was not "focused" on jobs, he had other priorities until just after the debt ceiling was raised just long enough for him to get past the election. Now "suddenly" he has "turned" and is now focused on jobs...

I heard his Press Secretary out there saying that the President can't "make jobs", yet for the past three years we've heard how he has "created or saved" more jobs than there are people in America (yes, it is hyperbole). It is time to stop limiting the market and get people back to work rather than ensuring ever more dependence on the government, and it is time to recognize that the most effective way to get more revenue is to get people to work. It's time to stop the "malaise" speeches, and time to let Americans free to do what is necessary to get people back to work.

 

[Phantasmal]

Or you could tax at a fair rate all tax payers, including corporations, in the USA, increasing revenue.

Job creation, the only way to do under the government is to spend money and that will never fly.

Creating jobs by retrofitting the infrastructure would be the best way to do it, but he hasn't gotten the support for that.

It is a no win situation that we have gotten ourselves into.

Cuts across the board will have to be made as well as tax code revision.

 

[Bonestorm]

I think it's hilarious (but predicatable) that Republicans are blaming Obama. The US was downgraded in large part because the debt deal was not big enough. As I recall it, Obama wanted the grand bargain. Boehner and the Republicans did not. Boehner and the Republicans won. John Boehner got 98% of what he wanted. Well, what he wanted wasn't good enough. And now here we are.

It should also not be surprising that the first time an out party actually used the debt ceiling and the full faith and credit of the United States as a bargaining chip is the first time the US got downgraded. In a world where the full faith and credit of the United States is seriously threatened every other year what do you expect?

 

[Damocles]

I think it's hilarious (but predicatable) that Republicans are blaming Obama. The US was downgraded in large part because the debt deal was not big enough. As I recall it, Obama wanted the grand bargain. Boehner and the Republicans did not. Boehner and the Republicans won. John Boehner got 98% of what he wanted. Well, what he wanted wasn't good enough. And now here we are.

It should also not be surprising that the first time an out party actually used the debt ceiling and the full faith and credit of the United States as a bargaining chip is the first time the US got downgraded. In a world where the full faith and credit of the United States is seriously threatened every other year what do you expect?

Obama wanted a clean increase in the debt limit, and when he couldn't get that he threatened not to pay old people if the republicans didn't agree to a deal that increased taxes... Reid realized he had a chance to take advantage.... Now we have a deal that will end in December with a choice between cutting Defense during "wartime" or increasing taxes. If the "supercongress" doesn't come up with a deal, the automatic triggers take effect, doctors will get less money from Medicare (yea, still less thus increasing our rates still more to pay for it, an effective tax on every American that isn't on Medicare) and the other half of the "cuts" will come from Defense.

The Democrats won that one, in every way. I don't know what the republicans will do, but whatever they do will involve one or the other thus providing the next year's campaign ads for the Democrats...

Is there anybody here who thinks that the six democrats on that supercommittee won't insist on tax increases? Raise your hand... :looks around:... I didn't think so.

The extension of the Bush tax cuts ends in March of 2012... Do you think they'll extend all of them?...

 

[Bonestorm]

Obama wanted a clean increase in the debt limit, and when he couldn't get that he threatened not to pay old people if the republicans didn't agree to a deal that increased taxes... Reid realized he had a chance to take advantage.... Now we have a deal that will end in December with a choice between cutting Defense during "wartime" or increasing taxes. If the "supercongress" doesn't come up with a deal, the automatic triggers take effect, doctors will get less money from Medicare (yea, still less thus increasing our rates still more to pay for it, an effective tax on every American that isn't on Medicare) and the other half of the "cuts" will come from Defense.

The Democrats won that one, in every way. I don't know what the republicans will do, but whatever they do will involve one or the other thus providing the next year's campaign ads for the Democrats...

Is there anybody here who thinks that the six democrats on that supercommittee won't insist on tax increases? Raise your hand... :looks around:... I didn't think so.

The extension of the Bush tax cuts ends in March of 2012... Do you think they'll extend all of them?...

First, you might want to tell John Boehner that the Democrats won in every way. He says he got 98% of what he wanted:

When you look at this final agreement that we came to with the white House, I got 98 percent of what I wanted. I'm pretty happy.

And the S&P thinks the tax cuts will be extended. That factored into the downgrade decision:

Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

 

[Damocles]

First, you might want to tell John Boehner that the Democrats won in every way. He says he got 98% of what he wanted:



And the S&P thinks the tax cuts will be extended. That factored into the downgrade decision:

I will tell him. I just told everybody what I think and why.

I hope they are extended, in fact I hope we do a bit more to get more investment here to increase jobs and thus revenue. It would be as stupid as saying that "we don't need a constitutional amendment to make us do our jobs" at the same time you are begging for more than 2 Trillion to spend above and beyond what you already have to raise taxes on the people that will be hiring... And after getting everything you wanted, most especially a guarantee that we won't revisit this next year, then were unsatisfied and tried to blame it on "terrorists"...

I told you what I expect to see, let's see if I am right. I suspect we'll see a deal with "revenue increases" most of which will be closing loopholes, but will effect jobs negatively. That's what I expect to see, because the republicans will try to say that they didn't increase "rates", the democrats will have their ads, and the republicans don't want to have the ads saying they chose to decrease the defense budget during "wartime"...

 

[PostmodernProphet]

If Obama stepped aside, his life insurance (whom we affectionately call Joe Biden) would be President.

think positively.....Boehner is now next in line instead of Pelosi......

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

STOP!

This is NOT a question of party politics. This is not a question of whether the Republicans or the Democrats can run your country better.

It's about this:

Yesterday, (my yesterday not yours) Standard and Poor knocked your credit rating down one notch. At the same time European, American and Asian markets plummetted by an average of 5%. Five percent!

The European leaders with the notable exception of the schoolboys who are failing to run the UK and at this moment are sunning themselves in California, France and Italy, are meeting to discuss the looming problem of Italian and Spanish finances.

There are NO party politics in these discussions. There is a working for the common good of Europe.

A similar scenario in the US would be Obama in a corner talking to himself.

This is not like 2008. This is NOT about politics. Not about banker's greed, not about sub prime mortgages. This is a global problem and it must be tackled globally. Qualified, experienced and wise economists should be meeting together with no sign of red or blue because if Moody's and or Fitch also knock you back you are going to be so deep in the crap that it will be literally years before you recover. And that means the rest of the world will be with you in the said crap.

Obama should immediately form a cross party advisory group and then take a break. His position as president is quite likely to be meaningless unless your economy and the economies of the rest of the world are rescued.

Eventually you must increase tax revenue and reduce spending, neither can work on their own. But, no matter what the vociferous members of this forum may say, none of you, not one of you, is capable of even advising on policy without party politics clouding and sometimes obscuring your vision.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen is a very major and significant problem.


And it affects ME! So stop this eternal childish bickering and start to pull together.

Whenever you hear a lib calling for "non-partisanship" or "bipartisanship" what they really mean is, they want those who oppose them to shut up and stop making such good well-reasoned arguments against their pinhead ideas! No, let's not be petty and partisan, let's just adopt the liberal ideology and all agree it's the bomb, and not question it anymore! The sooner we all realize liberals are right about everything, the better off we'll all be... just stop being partisan!

It's the same two-faced liberal hypocrisy we see daily, you want US to be non-partisan, while liberals and lefties can be partisan all day long, because liberals HAVE to be partisan, it's what makes them liberals! So with this set-up, you can beat righties and republicans over the head for being 'partisan' while liberals continue to do what liberals do.... sweet, but it won't work, bozo.

You see, it's like when some nutjob shoots a Democrat congresswoman, and everyone on the left appeals for us to "tone down the hateful rhetoric", when they have no intention of toning down anything, and show no indication they even understand what that means. So basically, what your little rant means is, you want the right to shut up, stop making well-reasoned conservative arguments, stop attacking left-wing idiocy, in the name of "working together" ....which means the right capitulates to the left always.


Here's what needs to happen... Obama doesn't have to step down, he should run for re-election, and the people should hold him accountable for his record and judge him accordingly. He should have to answer for his mistakes, and articulate where we go from here, what he wants to do if he gets another term, to fix the problems he still hasn't fixed, for whatever reason. Put his ideology out there, articulate his message to the people, and let them decide.

The Republicans need to decide whether they want to be Democrat-Lite moderate republican elitists, or embrace the TEA party first principles and core conservative values. When the primaries come, the voters can decide which Republicans they want. Doesn't this all sound pretty simple so far?

We'll have a national election in 2012, and THE PEOPLE can determine which direction our country shall move in. That's what needs to happen.

 

[signalmankenneth]