Are you a conservative?

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Are you a conservative? Pick all that apply

  • I oppose multiculturalism

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • I believe Islam is a threat to my country

    Votes: 7 100.0%
  • I hate Marxism

    Votes: 7 100.0%
  • Liberals are traitors who should be punished

    Votes: 4 57.1%

  • Total voters
    7
Now take a look at who controlled CONGRESS... you know... the ones that actually PASS the budget.

FACT: No President since Ike has lowered the national debt year over fiscal year. Not Carter, Not Clinton. The imaginary Clinton surpluses were BUDGET surpluses, not ACTUAL surpluses. I have never heard anyone claim Carter had a surplus before. Do link us up to that data. As for Clinton... he had a BUDGET surplus with a REP led Congress.

You are 100% wrong with regards to your Reagan vs. Obama comparison. Obama has been far worse. Adjust the $1.6 trillion in debt added under Reagan (for now we will ignore the FACT that he had Tip sitting in the House the entire time) and adjust it at a 3% rate of inflation over 23 years and you get $3.15 trillion in today's dollars over 8 years. Obama has increased it what? Almost $3.5 trillion in under 3 years.

Of course, you are right. I will have to examine more closely who controlled Congress or if it was split. Also, a useful bit of information would be world events, i.e. oil shortages or terrorists flying planes into buildings. I didn't claim anything beyond correlation.

My data is compiled by the CBO. For an easy representation look at the third graph here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms. I realize that Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source, but all they did was represent data put out by the CBO. If you don't trust them then we'll have to find someone else/ :)
 
I understand Keynesian well enough. FDR didn't follow Keynes exactly and Reagan didn't follow Supply Side exactly. This doesn't changes the fact that FDR was a Keynesian and Reagan was a Supply Sider.

FDR implemented a couple of Keynes ideas. infrastructure build up being the prominent one.
 
FDR implemented a couple of Keynes ideas. infrastructure build up being the prominent one.

Also, FDR did pump alot of money into the system, which is a Keynesian . I study economics at George Mason which is the bastion of Austrian economics in the US. Some interesting stuff there. I suggest reading some F.A. Hayek. Also here are some cool videos that your kids can enjoy:

Round two is the better in my opinion.
 
Keynesian theory is complete and utter bullshit. Invented out of whole cloth, its simply an excuse to grow government. 'Never let a crisis go to waste.'

The four ways Keynes stated the economy should be reinflated include:

1) increase in government spending
2) DECREASES in taxation (liberals always forget this one)
3) Decreases in interest rates
4) Increase in money supply

But Keynes did not support a CONSTANT increase in spending by the government. Per his theory, it would have decreasing benefits with each increase. (another point liberals always forget) In down times, Keynes stated it was ok for the government to pick up the slack in spending, but in good times, the government was supposed to pull back spending (again to keep equilibrium). THIS is why his suggestions to FDR to pull spending on infrastructure from the future and spend THAT money now, began to work. The fact that politicians enacted bad policies around Keynes ideas is not a fault of the theory itself.
 
:lol:
Obama Republican, is that what the late KKK Sen. Robert Byrd was talking about when he mentioned seeing white niggers???
Dweebway your such an ignorant idiot that I bet the vast majority of Republicans on this board wished you were a Democrat. Keep on keeping on.....you make Democrats look good! :)
 
The four ways Keynes stated the economy should be reinflated include:

1) increase in government spending
2) DECREASES in taxation (liberals always forget this one)
3) Decreases in interest rates
4) Increase in money supply

But Keynes did not support a CONSTANT increase in spending by the government. Per his theory, it would have decreasing benefits with each increase. (another point liberals always forget) In down times, Keynes stated it was ok for the government to pick up the slack in spending, but in good times, the government was supposed to pull back spending (again to keep equilibrium). THIS is why his suggestions to FDR to pull spending on infrastructure from the future and spend THAT money now, began to work. The fact that politicians enacted bad policies around Keynes ideas is not a fault of the theory itself.

You choose your economics professor unwisely, learning that Keynes had any brains whatsoever. Spending money to get out of a recession is stupid. Supply side is much better, let the market do its thing, which is cyclical:

1. When the economy is strong confidence is high, people spend more and save less, historically down to about 1% of their income.
2. The reduced money in banks causes interest rates to increase. This stifles growth.
3. Reduced growth causes a recession and confidence is eroded. So people start saving again, historically to about 10% of their income.
4. The increased money in banks causes interest rates to drop. This stimulates growth.
5. Proceed to step 1.

Any time the government increases spending at step 3 it just makes the recession longer and deeper since it is bureaucrats making inefficient decisions for everyone else (your Keynes item 1) instead of millions of consumers making their own, very efficient decisions. This also makes the next recession even worse.

Keynes item 2 is entirely appropriate but I'd prefer that taxes be low to begin with, since it forces government to be smaller (Constitutional) and more efficient. If taxes are too high in a recession then by all means reduce taxation but spending must be reduced in order to avoid deflating (thus reducing confidence and destabilizing) the currency.

Keynes Item 3 is unnecessary because with a stable currency interest rates fluctuate less. And, as noted in step 4, interest rates will drop.

Keynes item 4 is idiotic during a recession, since it deflates the value (thus reducing confidence and destabilizing) of the currency. The money supply should be increased only when the economy is growing, which will act to stabilize its value.
 
The four ways Keynes stated the economy should be reinflated include:

1) increase in government spending
2) DECREASES in taxation (liberals always forget this one)
3) Decreases in interest rates
4) Increase in money supply

But Keynes did not support a CONSTANT increase in spending by the government. Per his theory, it would have decreasing benefits with each increase. (another point liberals always forget) In down times, Keynes stated it was ok for the government to pick up the slack in spending, but in good times, the government was supposed to pull back spending (again to keep equilibrium). THIS is why his suggestions to FDR to pull spending on infrastructure from the future and spend THAT money now, began to work. The fact that politicians enacted bad policies around Keynes ideas is not a fault of the theory itself.

LOLZ at number two. Greenspan definitely bought into #3, which was just wonderful for the US economy during the last decade. I don't understand how a thinking person believes that artificially forcing interest rates down (what essentially amounts to making shit up out of nowhere) is healthy for the economy. Of course, as a monetarist, I'm no fan of expanding the money supply above normal levels in a recession, either.
 
Dweebway your such an ignorant idiot that I bet the vast majority of Republicans on this board wished you were a Democrat. Keep on keeping on.....you make Democrats look good! :)

The vast majority of Republicans here pretend they all have him on IA. Then they can ignore his bigotry with a clear conscience.
 
I understand Keynesian well enough. FDR didn't follow Keynes exactly and Reagan didn't follow Supply Side exactly. This doesn't changes the fact that FDR was a Keynesian and Reagan was a Supply Sider.


I think that you ought to read this first, it might help you to understand what Keynes actually said rather than what you believe he said. I think that your whole problem is centred around a belief that he was left wing or socialist or even worse European and that clouds your judgement.

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/generaltheory

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/keynes
 
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I think that you ought to read this first, it might help you to understand what Keynes actually said rather than what you believe he said. I think that your whole problem is centred around a belief that he was left wing or socialist or even worse European and that clouds your judgement.

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/generaltheory

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/keynes

I found this:
http://www.bidstrup.com/economics.htm
Into that gap of understanding stepped John Maynard Keynes. Keynes explained that government had a legitimate role in economic management, and in the regulation of "natural monopolies," whether by direct ownership or by tight regulation of private ownership. By engaging in deficit spending during contractions, and running budget surpluses during inflation, business cycles could be reined in and the misery of business panics could be avoided. Further, he argued among other things that business cycles had the effect of transferring vast sums of wealth from the poor to the rich, as a result of the fact that the poor had few means of defending themselves from the effects of a business panic or a monetary inflation, and the rich not only could defend themselves, but could even exploit the business cycle. This is why unregulated markets always created societies with a tiny, rich elite and a vast, disposessed lower class.

Keynes' ideas became known as "Keynesian economics." They became the cornerstone of Franklin D. Roosevelt's policies in dealing with the effects of the Great Depression. Roosevelt could see that the Crash of '29 had transferred truly vast amounts of wealth from the poor to the rich, leaving a whole nation impoverished, and so he sought to tax that wealth and allow access to it by means of government make-work policies. The idea was to not only create a middle class, but transfer most of the poor into it my providing them the opportunities to uplift their circumstances. In doing so, he earned the undying emnity of the wealthy, whose money he was taxing to pay for it. They sought their revenge. They got it by the "invention" of "neoliberalism."

"Neoliberalism" is not based on Adam Smith, as is often claimed for it by the libertarian propaganda, but is, in reality, based largely on the ideas of an Austrian economist, Friedrick Hayek, who had written in the 1930's that the control of an economy by a government is the "road to serfdom," as he titled his treatise. Asserting that human rights sprang from property rights, he claimed that a society could be no more free than its economy. The two principal failures of his analysis, were of course, first, the premise that human rights are a function of property rights, and that a society that planned its economy was doomed to serfdom. What Hayek never considered is that the obverse of such a policy is obviously that someone who has no property, has no rights, which means that person is, quite obviously, vulnerable to the very serfdom that Hayek claimed to fear. Witness the millions in debt-slavery in India and much of the rest of the world - the very serfdom that Hayek claimed to be repulsed by. The second major error was the assumption that corporations were entitled to the same property rights as individuals, and yet somehow deserved an exemption from liability that individuals do not enjoy - a basic inequality of rights. But nevertheless, his ideas had a great deal of resonance among social libertarians, who were highly enamored of an economic theory that corresponded to their social theories. It also found additional resonance in the writings of the Russian philosopher and popular novelist, Ayn Rand, and became the basis of her philosophical celebration of what can only charitably be described as selfishness.

The conservatives of the Republican Party in the U.S. in the 1960's and 1970's used that period of slow economic growth as a means of persuading policymakers that Keynesian economics had somehow failed, and that only a turn to the deregulation advocated by Hayek could solve the problems of "stagflation" that had become such an intractible problem. So, claiming that Keynes was dead, "neoliberal economics" was born, brought to life in America by a bald, mousy-looking economist from the University of Chicago, by the name of Milton Friedman. Friedmand knew that Hayek's ideas were functionally anti-egalitarian, regardless of the title of his most famous book, yet Friedman privately, but freely admitted that he was not an egalitarian and didn't care about fairness. This made him the instant darling of the "neo-liberals."

Friedman was the undying, sworn enemy of Keynesian economics. He widely publicized what he considered to be a need to return to the "unseen hand" of the market to cure the "stagflation" of the time. His ideas were exactly what the right-wing rich elites needed in an economic theory. It was simple, easy to understand, superfically reasonable and logical, and above all else, suited their need for an economic theory, which, if implemented, would enable them to accumulate wealth and thereby transfer its accompanying power to themselves without restraint. It suited their desire for revenge and their greed and avarice beautifully. Friedman very quickly became their darling, lavishly gifted, and being driven around the University of Chicago campus in a chauffered limosine. Paul Samuelson, Friedman's long-time rival and the principal advocate of careful, sensible regulation of business and government intervention in the market in the Keynesian mold, tirelessly warned of the anti-eglaitarian dangers of Friedman's approach, but amidst the propaganda, he was largely forgotten, even though it was his ideas that had not only prevented a return to business cycles, but had created a vast middle class in America in just a couple of decades following world war II. And ultimately, it was Samuelson's ideas which in the end saved the Chilean economy.
 
The vast majority of Republicans here pretend they all have him on IA. Then they can ignore his bigotry with a clear conscience.

right...no republicans have called webbway out for being a racist

do you even know what truth is? you're so blinded by partisan thinking you can't accept the fact that he has been called out by most of the right here. you just want to ignore that so you can push your twisted politics.
 
Just a point in defense of Austrian economics (i.e. Hayek and Mises). There is no such thing as gentle or careful governmental regulation. Even the lightest touch of government on the market will have unforeseen consequences. This is where Hayek slammed Keynes. One of my favorite quotes from Hayek was: "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design." Economics does not happen in a bubble and EVERY economist can tell you that people will not always act in a rational or foreseeable manner. The best thing to do for any market is to establish the rules and let the players play the game. This is the essence of the success Hong Kong and Singapore have experienced in recent years.
 
right...no republicans have called webbway out for being a racist

do you even know what truth is? you're so blinded by partisan thinking you can't accept the fact that he has been called out by most of the right here. you just want to ignore that so you can push your twisted politics.

Links.
 
Read this entire post. Here's what I got. Lefties and Righties calling eachother names like racist and faggot, talking about how people are pussies and mama referrences. Intermingled with some pretty good info on Keynes, Hayek and some light economic theory. This place has become a microcosm of our country in general. One side or the other whining about who is in power and doing everything in their power to stall or derail progress and then heap the blame on the other side. We have all forgotten we are Americans. When the water rises all our boats float, when it subsides, we run aground. Nobody wants to sacrifice, nobody wants to compromise. The longview on things is now 4 years, the next election. To win power, BOTH the left and the right would screw their own mom out of her money and her freedom. A pox on the left and the right.
 
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