Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
So letters from their own agents aren't enough? They broke international law on several accounts.
the ATF has some 'splaining' to do
- Thread starter SmarterthanYou
- Start date
Liberty
Libertarian Minded
Oh please!
What a bunch of nonsense.
We'll see what happens the next time we start anew.
I'll even treat you with more respect than you give me.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
I love it when this Libertarian lunkhead acts PRECISELY as I predicted, and then tries to make himself out to be the victim. As always the chronology of the post will be the undoing of lunkheads like Liberty.
Goodnight, Gracie.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20083772-10391695.html
At a lengthy hearing on ATF's controversial gunwalking operation today, a key ATF manager told Congress he discussed the case with a White House National Security staffer as early as September 2010. The communications were between ATF Special Agent in Charge of the Phoenix office, Bill Newell, and White House National Security Director for North America Kevin O'Reilly. Newell said the two are longtime friends. The content of what Newell shared with O'Reilly is unclear and wasn't fully explored at the hearing.
It's the first time anyone has publicly stated that a White House official had any familiarity with ATF's operation Fast and Furious, which allowed thousands of weapons to fall into the hands of suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels in an attempt to gain intelligence. It's unknown as to whether O'Reilly shared information with anybody else at the White House.
Congressional investigators obtained an email from Newell to O'Reilly in September of last year in which Newell began with the words: "you didn't get this from me."
"What does that mean," one member of Congress asked Newell, " 'you didn't get this from me?' "
"Obviously he was a friend of mine," Newell replied, "and I shouldn't have been sending that to him."
Newell told Congress that O'Reilly had asked him for information.
"Why do you think he asked for that information," Congressman Darrell Issa (R-CA) asked Newell.
"He was asking about the impact of Project Gunrunner to brief people in preparation for a trip to Mexico... what we were doing to combat firearms trafficking and other issues."
Today, a White House spokesman said the email was not about Fast and Furious, but about other gun trafficking efforts. The spokesman also said he didn't know what Newell was referring to when he said he'd spoken to O'Reilly about Fast and Furious.
President Obama has said neither he nor Attorney General Eric Holder authorized or knew about the operation. Holder has asked the Inspector General to investigate.
At a lengthy hearing on ATF's controversial gunwalking operation today, a key ATF manager told Congress he discussed the case with a White House National Security staffer as early as September 2010. The communications were between ATF Special Agent in Charge of the Phoenix office, Bill Newell, and White House National Security Director for North America Kevin O'Reilly. Newell said the two are longtime friends. The content of what Newell shared with O'Reilly is unclear and wasn't fully explored at the hearing.
It's the first time anyone has publicly stated that a White House official had any familiarity with ATF's operation Fast and Furious, which allowed thousands of weapons to fall into the hands of suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels in an attempt to gain intelligence. It's unknown as to whether O'Reilly shared information with anybody else at the White House.
Congressional investigators obtained an email from Newell to O'Reilly in September of last year in which Newell began with the words: "you didn't get this from me."
"What does that mean," one member of Congress asked Newell, " 'you didn't get this from me?' "
"Obviously he was a friend of mine," Newell replied, "and I shouldn't have been sending that to him."
Newell told Congress that O'Reilly had asked him for information.
"Why do you think he asked for that information," Congressman Darrell Issa (R-CA) asked Newell.
"He was asking about the impact of Project Gunrunner to brief people in preparation for a trip to Mexico... what we were doing to combat firearms trafficking and other issues."
Today, a White House spokesman said the email was not about Fast and Furious, but about other gun trafficking efforts. The spokesman also said he didn't know what Newell was referring to when he said he'd spoken to O'Reilly about Fast and Furious.
President Obama has said neither he nor Attorney General Eric Holder authorized or knew about the operation. Holder has asked the Inspector General to investigate.
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
I suggest an international investigation by several nations, such as Switzerland. Their partitality in the matter is less questionable.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
this is the government we deserve.
ATF promotes 3 supervisors responsible for failed operation
The ATF has promoted three key supervisors of a controversial sting operation that allowed firearms to be illegally trafficked across the U.S. border into Mexico.
All three have been heavily criticized for pushing the program forward even as it became apparent that it was out of control. At least 2,000 guns were lost and many turned up at crime scenes in Mexico and two at the killing of a U.S. Border Patrol agent in Arizona.
The three supervisors have been given new management positions at the agency's headquarters in Washington. They are William G. McMahon, who was the ATF's deputy director of operations in the West, where the illegal trafficking program was focused, and William D. Newell and David Voth, both field supervisors who oversaw the program out of the agency's Phoenix office.
"I share responsibility for mistakes that were made," McMahon testified to a House committee three weeks ago. "The advantage of hindsight, the benefit of a thorough review of the case, clearly points me to things that I would have done differently."
McMahon was promoted Sunday to deputy assistant director of the ATF's Office of Professional Responsibility and Security Operations — the division that investigates misconduct by employees and other problems.
seriously? Office of Professional Responsibility????????
ATF promotes 3 supervisors responsible for failed operation
The ATF has promoted three key supervisors of a controversial sting operation that allowed firearms to be illegally trafficked across the U.S. border into Mexico.
All three have been heavily criticized for pushing the program forward even as it became apparent that it was out of control. At least 2,000 guns were lost and many turned up at crime scenes in Mexico and two at the killing of a U.S. Border Patrol agent in Arizona.
The three supervisors have been given new management positions at the agency's headquarters in Washington. They are William G. McMahon, who was the ATF's deputy director of operations in the West, where the illegal trafficking program was focused, and William D. Newell and David Voth, both field supervisors who oversaw the program out of the agency's Phoenix office.
"I share responsibility for mistakes that were made," McMahon testified to a House committee three weeks ago. "The advantage of hindsight, the benefit of a thorough review of the case, clearly points me to things that I would have done differently."
McMahon was promoted Sunday to deputy assistant director of the ATF's Office of Professional Responsibility and Security Operations — the division that investigates misconduct by employees and other problems.
seriously? Office of Professional Responsibility????????
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
This is Orwellian irony at its extreme.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
Melson is out, so is the AZ US attorney.
Dennis Burke, the U.S. Attorney in Arizona who oversaw prosecutions in that state related to the Fast and Furious operation, is also stepping down,
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62320.html#ixzz1WXQDl9Bk
sadly, i see no prosecutions forthcoming from this debacle.
Dennis Burke, the U.S. Attorney in Arizona who oversaw prosecutions in that state related to the Fast and Furious operation, is also stepping down,
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62320.html#ixzz1WXQDl9Bk
sadly, i see no prosecutions forthcoming from this debacle.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
So your trying to change supposition and conjecture into what is at best circumstantial evidence? Like I before, I've got no problem with letting the guilty swing......let's just make sure we get the guilty and don't throw out the baby with the bathwater just to appease gunner paranoia and agendas.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Right, because YOU didn't cash in those two handouts, err "stimulus" checks that the Shrub gave you during his 8 years, right bunky?
You are SO full of shit, Liberty, that even when you take a cheap shot to try and dodge the FACT that you couldn't get past me on one point in this discussion, it's pathetic. Carry on.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Well, Holder's officially put the AG on the case, so everyone connected to this debacle will take the "honorable" way out by resigning....which won't make them immune from being called during an investigation.
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
Please list one positive aspect of keeping the ATF. Why are they needed?
And there is no supposition. The ATF DID let guns 'walk' across the border. They DID NOT coordinate this with Mexico. That IS breaking several national and international laws. There were/are NO BENEFITS to this operation, at any level.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Bottom line: ONE screwed up sting operation in which heads should indeed roll does NOT invalidate the core reason and purpose for an entire organization to exist. You can beat that horse to death, but it won't change anything. As for the positive aspects of the ATF, do your own homework:
A unique law enforcement agency in the United States Department of Justice that protects our communities from violent criminals, criminal organizations, the illegal use and trafficking of firearms, the illegal use and storage of explosives, acts of arson and bombings, acts of terrorism, and the illegal diversion of alcohol and tobacco products. We partner with communities, industries, law enforcement, and public safety agencies to safeguard the public we serve through information sharing, training, research, and use of technology.
http://www.atf.gov/about/mission/
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
I've done more than my fair share of 'homework' on the ATF. That's why I call for the abolition. You've yet to show a positive aspect in keeping an unnecessary and highly criminal regulatory agency.
Good Luck
New member
They help fearful, mindless, big mommy government twits feel safer. Do they need any other reason?
It does not matter that they fail miserably in their supposed reason for existing, since gun related crime continues unabated since their inception. It does not matter that they break their own laws which result in unnecessary deaths. (F&F being only one MORE example of their jack-booted incompetence.) All that matter is they are part of repressive government - but since fearful mindless big mommy government twits don't own guns, repression is therefore a good thing. You know, just like taxes on the OTHER guy is always a good thing.
Liberty
Libertarian Minded
Ouch!!!!
You're so Brutel.
What fact did I miss?
If you could help me out here by stating some facts, I'd appreciate it.
Maybe then I could respond in a way that makes more sense to you.