The Rich Are Destroying the Economy

[Rationalist]

How about 'splaining how I am "economically stupid" here? Is there something I said that isn't correct? Rich people don't need to earn incomes, they are rich... that means they have money, enough money to live on and buy whatever the fuck they want to, and not have to worry about it anymore. So why the hell do you retards assume they NEED an income, and you can tax it? IF rich people were dependent on an income, I could see the logic... they gotta make an income, so we can tax it 30%...40%...60%...80% whatever we want, because they gotta have it... gotta earn it... but that isn't the case. Rich people already made their fortunes, they don't NEED to earn ANY income, if they don't want to... and higher taxes simply makes them want to less.

While it's true that the rich don't HAVE to earn income, most would continue to do so. Even when the top tax rate was 90%, there were still rich people earning income. I'm not by any means proposing that we return to those rates, mind you, but raising taxes by a few percentage points wouldn't cause any harm.

That said, I am very tired of the left's vilification of the rich. I do believe their class warfare tactics will ultimately backfire.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

While it's true that the rich don't HAVE to earn income, most would continue to do so. Even when the top tax rate was 90%, there were still rich people earning income. I'm not by any means proposing that we return to those rates, mind you, but raising taxes by a few percentage points wouldn't cause any harm.

That said, I am very tired of the left's vilification of the rich. I do believe their class warfare tactics will ultimately backfire.

When the top marginal tax rates were at 91%, very very few wealthy people earned income, aside from residual income from investments and stocks, etc. Most of those earnings could be rolled into tax-free securities, so very little actual "income" was taxed. You see, one thing most "rich" people have going for them is, they are very smart when it comes to money. They simply aren't going to do dumb and stupid things with it, they are going to generally do smart things instead. Smart being, things that are financially beneficial to them, things that enable them to maintain their wealth and retain their fortunes. This is why taxing their income doesn't work, and never will. Rich people don't need to earn an income, they are already rich... why would they need to earn an income? You say, well, if they just spend money and never make money, then wouldn't their fortunes run out? Not at all, because they can always earn enough income (and pay the tax) to maintain their lifestyle... it becomes a game of 'break even' each year. As long as I have $50 million in my account, why do I need any more? I can buy anything I want, do anything I please, go anywhere my heart desires, and never even touch the principle. If my home is paid for, and my material needs are paid for, I can live a pretty luxurious lifestyle off $100-150k per year..pay tax on that... no biggie... and I still have my fortune. Now, let's say some entrepreneur comes along with a business proposition, and wants me to invest $5 million, and he shows me where I will make an average of $1 million a year after the first two years... Why would I want to take $5 million out of tax-free securities, so I can pay tax on it, then use it to make a million dollars, of which I would only get to keep a hundred thousand? I can leave the $5 million where it is, and never pay a dime of tax, and still earn interest and dividends... it's much smarter and whole lot less risky. This is how "rich" people operate... they will make money when making money is advantageous to them, and they do not care about making money, if it's not.

The very IDEA that we somehow punish "the rich" by raising the top marginal tax rates by ANY amount, is absurd in principle. You say, it does no harm, but this is simply NOT TRUE! Demonstrably, we know, the less advantageous it is for wealthy people to earn an income, the less income earning they will do. You can raise the top marginal rates to 100%, it doesn't matter to a rich person, they don't care. You operate under some assumption that they do, that it makes any difference to them at all.. it doesn't... so you say, what is the harm? Well, the harm is in doing the exact OPPOSITE of what you should be doing, which is to make it more advantageous for "rich people" to make money.

 

[apple0154]

When the top marginal tax rates were at 91%, very very few wealthy people earned income, aside from residual income from investments and stocks, etc. Most of those earnings could be rolled into tax-free securities, so very little actual "income" was taxed. You see, one thing most "rich" people have going for them is, they are very smart when it comes to money. They simply aren't going to do dumb and stupid things with it, they are going to generally do smart things instead. Smart being, things that are financially beneficial to them, things that enable them to maintain their wealth and retain their fortunes. This is why taxing their income doesn't work, and never will. Rich people don't need to earn an income, they are already rich... why would they need to earn an income? You say, well, if they just spend money and never make money, then wouldn't their fortunes run out? Not at all, because they can always earn enough income (and pay the tax) to maintain their lifestyle... it becomes a game of 'break even' each year. As long as I have $50 million in my account, why do I need any more? I can buy anything I want, do anything I please, go anywhere my heart desires, and never even touch the principle. If my home is paid for, and my material needs are paid for, I can live a pretty luxurious lifestyle off $100-150k per year..pay tax on that... no biggie... and I still have my fortune. Now, let's say some entrepreneur comes along with a business proposition, and wants me to invest $5 million, and he shows me where I will make an average of $1 million a year after the first two years... Why would I want to take $5 million out of tax-free securities, so I can pay tax on it, then use it to make a million dollars, of which I would only get to keep a hundred thousand? I can leave the $5 million where it is, and never pay a dime of tax, and still earn interest and dividends... it's much smarter and whole lot less risky. This is how "rich" people operate... they will make money when making money is advantageous to them, and they do not care about making money, if it's not.

The very IDEA that we somehow punish "the rich" by raising the top marginal tax rates by ANY amount, is absurd in principle. You say, it does no harm, but this is simply NOT TRUE! Demonstrably, we know, the less advantageous it is for wealthy people to earn an income, the less income earning they will do. You can raise the top marginal rates to 100%, it doesn't matter to a rich person, they don't care. You operate under some assumption that they do, that it makes any difference to them at all.. it doesn't... so you say, what is the harm? Well, the harm is in doing the exact OPPOSITE of what you should be doing, which is to make it more advantageous for "rich people" to make money.

To quote Volt, msg 20, "This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read."

Obviously you don't really know wealthy people. Allow me to shed a bit of light on the subject for you.

Wealthy people like money. The vast majority of them like money more than the average person. They "love" money.

You wrote,

As long as I have $50 million in my account, why do I need any more? I can buy anything I want, do anything I please, go anywhere my heart desires, and never even touch the principle.

That's the way you think now because you don't have $50 million. That's the way most people think about money every day. "If I had an extra $50/wk to spend I'd be happy. If I had an extra $100/wk I'd be happy."

The problem is when people do increase their income they still desire more. "Just an extra $200/wk would be perfect."

When one lives in a two bedroom house they say a three bedroom would be perfect. The person living in the three bedroom house say they'd be happy if they just had a extra room for a den. The person living an apartment would be happy to just have a back yard. The person with the back yard would be happy if they just had a pool. It goes on and on.

The person with a second hand car says they'd be happy with a new car. Nothing special. Just like the one they test drove at the dealership last week. A new, small compact model. The small compact seems so wonderful compared to their old rust bucket that, at this point in time, it would satisfy them.

After they buy the new, small compact and their income increases they test drive a more expensive car and their desires/wants increase. Few are satisfied. Most desire more. The same happens to those who love money. They never have enough.

As for increased taxes discouraging the rich it may discourage an elderly, wealthy individual but not the average wealthy person or the person trying to get rich. They keep trying. The reason they keep trying is because they want more money. They don't need it. They just want it.

Most wealthy people continue to increase their wealth long after any need has been fulfilled. Compared to those who leave a legacy how many people do we hear about who were wealthy and "timed" their money to run out at, say, 90 years old?

You're greatly mistaken, Dix, when it comes to understanding the wealthy. With the possible exception of those who received money without working for it (lottery, inheritance) the wealthy continue to add to their holdings until the day they're no longer with us. It's an addiction to want more of something one has plenty of. It's an illness. It's illogical. It's a form of insanity and those are the people to whom you believe we should cater. Why?

 

[Rune]

How about 'splaining how I am "economically stupid" here? Is there something I said that isn't correct? Rich people don't need to earn incomes, they are rich... that means they have money, enough money to live on and buy whatever the fuck they want to, and not have to worry about it anymore. So why the hell do you retards assume they NEED an income, and you can tax it? IF rich people were dependent on an income, I could see the logic... they gotta make an income, so we can tax it 30%...40%...60%...80% whatever we want, because they gotta have it... gotta earn it... but that isn't the case. Rich people already made their fortunes, they don't NEED to earn ANY income, if they don't want to... and higher taxes simply makes them want to less.

Damm, Dixie you are still on this fallacy? Of course rich people need income you retard. You can't spend money without diminishing the amount of money you have. Interest income is still income.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

And finaly, I guess the poor must be the only ones buying treasuries since the "rich" aren't

So, you are going to pretend to have missed the part where I explained to you who was buying treasuries and funds like Pimco Total return? The wealthy prefer TAX EXEMPT muni's for the most part. THE MIDDLE CLASS (you know... the vast majority of the population in between the rich and poor) invest in treasury bonds/corp bonds via funds like PTR via 401k's/403b's/IRA's etc...

Saying 'the rich are buying them' is quite simply untrue.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

How about 'splaining how I am "economically stupid" here? Is there something I said that isn't correct?

Yes, there is.

Look, doofus... Rich people don't give a shit how much you tax their income, they don't have to make an income anymore, they are RICH!

Start here. The above is THE DUMBEST comment on this thread.... which is saying a LOT given the stupidity Ken posted.

So you can just jack it on up to 100% for all they care, they'll just stop earning incomes. You want to punish rich investors and speculators... okay, again... they don't have to do anything, they are RICH.... they will simply stop doing whatever it is you place a burden on. If you want to make it more difficult to hire people at a decent wage or to make a corporate profit, they will just do less of that... they don't NEED to earn incomes anymore, they are already RICH! You libtards seem to operate under the assumption that rich people are stupid, that they simply have no choice but to continue making whatever money they make, and will keep paying whatever tax rate you tell them to pay... well guess what... not a single RICH person in America, HAS to earn an income! They can sit there on their great big pile of money, and live quite comfortably for decades, and never earn a single dime for you to tax! This is what you and Obama are suddenly discovering, and it obviously wasn't covered in your pinhead philosophy debates.

While there is certainly a disincentive to invest/produce when faced with higher taxes, you are taking it to an absurd extreme.

In order to bring back economic prosperity, the government has to take measures to EASE restrictions and burdens on "The Rich" ...or the people who have the available capital to grow the economy! As much as you hate and despise "The Rich" the economy depends on them, job creation depends on them, and if you ever expect to have a pot to piss in, YOU depend on them. Stop foolishly trying to PUNISH people you can't punish!

The above is also incorrect. You do NOT have to 'ease burdens and restrictions'.... what you have to do is remove the uncertainty. It is the ever increasing uncertainty that is causing people to pull back on job creation right now. Part of that uncertainty stems from the mounting debt our country faces. Everyone knows it eventually has to be paid for, the problem is the idiots in DC aren't telling people HOW they will do so.

Read up on the Laffer curve ditzie.... it might help you to comprehend the fact that it is not a clear 'raise taxes' or 'lower taxes'. There IS an efficient frontier with taxation where you will start to get diminishing revenues as a percent of GDP by raising taxes. I think right now we are BELOW that frontier. But the complexity of our tax code makes it hard to pinpoint the optimal level. Which is again why we need to go to a straight flat tax with standard deduction.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

ApplesauceBrain: To quote Volt, msg 20, "This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read."

Obviously you don't really know wealthy people. Allow me to shed a bit of light on the subject for you.

Wealthy people like money. The vast majority of them like money more than the average person. They "love" money.

Oh, but I do know several very wealthy people. You are absolutely correct, they love to make money! Problem is, when democrats are proposing stealing the majority of it in taxation, they aren't making money anymore, they are losing money, and just as much as a rich person likes to make money, they HATE losing money. When presented with the choice of keeping 30% of their money or keeping 100% of their money, they will choose keeping 100% of their money every single time. This is why rich people don't earn incomes when you burden income with high taxes.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Damm, Dixie you are still on this fallacy? Of course rich people need income you retard. You can't spend money without diminishing the amount of money you have. Interest income is still income.

Rich people most certainly can spend money without ever touching their wealth. Some people are so wealthy they can't even spend all the interest... and none of them mind paying 36% tax on the interest income, that's not a big deal to a rich person. We're talking about rich people earning an income, and they don't have to earn an income, they are already wealthy. So you can tax their incomes 50%, 60%, 70%, it doesn't matter, they don't have to earn income, they make enough (and pay tax) on the interest, and maintain their rich lifestyles. There is NO incentive for them to earn massive incomes, only to have the government take it away.... again, rich people are not stupid.

 

[apple0154]

Oh, but I do know several very wealthy people. You are absolutely correct, they love to make money! Problem is, when democrats are proposing stealing the majority of it in taxation, they aren't making money anymore, they are losing money, and just as much as a rich person likes to make money, they HATE losing money. When presented with the choice of keeping 30% of their money or keeping 100% of their money, they will choose keeping 100% of their money every single time. This is why rich people don't earn incomes when you burden income with high taxes.

As Dune and others have stated rich people have to replenish their funds. They don't just spend without adding something to the pot.

You're wacko, Dix. A complete and utter fruitcake.

Try to understand most wealthy people LOVE money. While they may make small talk many are consumed by the thought of making money. That's why most wealthy people keep making money, more money than they'll ever need.

As I've said if/when you really get to know them, you'll understand.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yes, there is.

Start here. The above is THE DUMBEST comment on this thread.... which is saying a LOT given the stupidity Ken posted.

But you've not shown where anything I said is incorrect.

While there is certainly a disincentive to invest/produce when faced with higher taxes, you are taking it to an absurd extreme.

No, I am taking it to the logical extreme. The more you raise taxes on the people who are earning huge incomes, the more you discourage people from earning huge incomes. That's just a fact of life, there's nothing 'absurd' about it at all.

The above is also incorrect. You do NOT have to 'ease burdens and restrictions'.... what you have to do is remove the uncertainty. It is the ever increasing uncertainty that is causing people to pull back on job creation right now. Part of that uncertainty stems from the mounting debt our country faces. Everyone knows it eventually has to be paid for, the problem is the idiots in DC aren't telling people HOW they will do so.

I disagree. There is no uncertainty when a rich person ponders whether the democrats plan to raise top marginal tax rates, that's fairly certain. They can't pay down the debt or afford the bill they've rung up, without drastically increasing tax rates. Rich people know this, and they aren't about to invest in the plan...again...rich people aren't stupid. Now, they are not uncertain about Chinese currency, they will invest in that, and make lot of money which is socked away in foreign investments, which you can't tax unless they bring it back home. So go ahead and tax the hell out of upper income earners, rich people really don't give a shit! They can still maintain their lifestyles, they can still make money in foreign investments, and at the end of the day, there you stand with your hat in your hand, wondering why you can't generate more tax revenue by increasing their rates.

Read up on the Laffer curve ditzie.... it might help you to comprehend the fact that it is not a clear 'raise taxes' or 'lower taxes'. There IS an efficient frontier with taxation where you will start to get diminishing revenues as a percent of GDP by raising taxes. I think right now we are BELOW that frontier. But the complexity of our tax code makes it hard to pinpoint the optimal level. Which is again why we need to go to a straight flat tax with standard deduction.

I know all about the Laffer Curve, as well as the Flat Tax. You are simply WRONG on both, and too stubborn to realize you are wrong.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

As Dune and others have stated rich people have to replenish their funds. They don't just spend without adding something to the pot.

You're wacko, Dix. A complete and utter fruitcake.

Try to understand most wealthy people LOVE money. While they may make small talk many are consumed by the thought of making money. That's why most wealthy people keep making money, more money than they'll ever need.

As I've said if/when you really get to know them, you'll understand.

Oh, I know rich people love money, that's why they aren't going to make any money only to have it confiscated in excessive taxation. Again, I bet I know more rich people than you ever will, and I bet their total net worth is more than you could ever imagine in that pea-brain of yours. But you just keep on trying to denigrate me by insinuating I don't know or understand rich people... you don't know me, punk, you have no idea who I know.

Again (for the slow).... Rich people can live off their wealth for a very long time, they do not need to earn an income, it's not required when you reach a certain amount of wealth. The money takes care of itself, and generates sufficient resources to maintain whatever opulent lifestyle you have become accustomed to. Like I said, you can live pretty large on $100k a year, if your house and debts are paid off, there is no need to earn a large income. When you raise top marginal rates, you effectively stop rich people from earning large incomes, they have no motivation to do so. As you said, they LOVE money, they HATE losing money. Why would they invest a chunk of money only to see it taxed away, when they can keep that money in a tax-free security, or better yet... send it over to China and invest in their economy, where you can't tax any damn thing they earn?

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Oh, I know rich people love money, that's why they aren't going to make any money only to have it confiscated in excessive taxation.

If the rich decide to stop competing, soon, they will no longer be rich. And there will be plenty of others perfectly ready to step up and make 65% of 1 million a year.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Like I said, you can live pretty large on $100k a year, if your house and debts are paid off, there is no need to earn a large income.

Then why work at all? Why would your taxation matter to you? Why not spend the money on improving your business instead of wastefully padding your salary?

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Now, they are not uncertain about Chinese currency, they will invest in that, and make lot of money which is socked away in foreign investments, which you can't tax unless they bring it back home.

Since almost all currencies, on average, constantly lose value, investing in them is little different than gambling. You're going to lose in the long run and it's stupid to do it. If foreign currencies literally aren't taxed until they're converted to dollars (I doubt this isn't a detail you've entirely made up), clearly that's a loophole that needs to be fixed.

The rich are not as paranoid about 40% taxation as you seem to believe. Few people are as crazy as you besides those who just want to completely and totally abolish government.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Rich people most certainly can spend money without ever touching their wealth. Some people are so wealthy they can't even spend all the interest... and none of them mind paying 36% tax on the interest income, that's not a big deal to a rich person. We're talking about rich people earning an income, and they don't have to earn an income, they are already wealthy. So you can tax their incomes 50%, 60%, 70%, it doesn't matter, they don't have to earn income, they make enough (and pay tax) on the interest, and maintain their rich lifestyles. There is NO incentive for them to earn massive incomes, only to have the government take it away.... again, rich people are not stupid.

Not even when tax rates were at 90% was any of the stuff you are talking about seriously happening. Besides, most of the extremely wealthy make most of their income in capital gains, paying a 15% rate, rather than the normal income tax. The rich pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than do the middle class.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

But you've not shown where anything I said is incorrect.

Rich people care about how much they are taxed, which is why they have over the past 50+ years lobbied for tax deductions and loopholes as well as lower marginal tax rates you fucking moron.

No, I am taking it to the logical extreme. The more you raise taxes on the people who are earning huge incomes, the more you discourage people from earning huge incomes. That's just a fact of life, there's nothing 'absurd' about it at all.

Wrong. This is where you show your complete lack of understanding when it comes to economics. We can EASILY raise taxes from where they are today WITHOUT a negative effect on revenue or GDP growth. THAT is a FACT. While there is a threshhold as to how FAR you can go, you are taking it to the absurdity by suggesting that we cannot raise them at all and that we should be EASING up on them.

I disagree. There is no uncertainty when a rich person ponders whether the democrats plan to raise top marginal tax rates, that's fairly certain. They can't pay down the debt or afford the bill they've rung up, without drastically increasing tax rates. Rich people know this, and they aren't about to invest in the plan...again...rich people aren't stupid.

Wrong again. you truly are a fucking idiot. The UNCERTAINTY comes from HOW much they will raise taxes and HOW they collect (ie... from corps/'the rich'/etc...). The UNCERTAINTY comes from whether or not the idiots in BOTH parties will continue driving up debt or are they serious about spending cuts.... you see... if they CUT spending and stop outspending revenue, then we know that FUTURE tax increases BEYOND what is already needed will not be necessary.

Also, simply stomping your foot and saying 'rich people aren't stupid' is in and of itself fucking retarded. There are a lot of wealthy people who are not intelligent. There are a lot that are brilliant. Blanket statements such as yours simply show how simple minded you are.

Now, they are not uncertain about Chinese currency, they will invest in that, and make lot of money which is socked away in foreign investments, which you can't tax unless they bring it back home.

On what basis do you state they are not uncertain about the Chinese currency? That defies logic given the currency is one of the most manipulated (by the Chinese government) in the world. There is also a great deal of uncertainty in China with regards to their inflationary environment and real estate bubble. So again, do try to stick to topics on which you have some basic fundamental grasp of. you know.... like.... see spot run or the itsy bitsy spider's journey.

So go ahead and tax the hell out of upper income earners, rich people really don't give a shit! They can still maintain their lifestyles, they can still make money in foreign investments, and at the end of the day, there you stand with your hat in your hand, wondering why you can't generate more tax revenue by increasing their rates.

and there you go again saying they don't give a shit. You are 100% WRONG. you fucking halfwit.

I know all about the Laffer Curve, as well as the Flat Tax. You are simply WRONG on both, and too stubborn to realize you are wrong.

The above is quite comical. Every post on here shows you have NO understanding of the Laffer Curve. As for the Flat Tax, it is the ONLY fair and progressive tax system being proposed. Period. The only one being stubborn about that is you... who are too blind or too ignorant to realize the FAIR tax is highly regressive.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Rich people care about how much they are taxed, which is why they have over the past 50+ years lobbied for tax deductions and loopholes as well as lower marginal tax rates you fucking moron.

People who earn large incomes have lobbied for the past 50+ years for lower top marginal rates, not "rich people!" That's where you and the pinhead libs seems to be having a problem. You mistakenly assume that all people earning high incomes are rich, and that all rich people earn high incomes, and that is a totally false assumption. People who are independently wealthy don't really give a shit if you raise income taxes to 100%... they don't need to make an income anymore. The more you raise income taxes, the more you discourage these rich people from earning an income.

Wrong. This is where you show your complete lack of understanding when it comes to economics. We can EASILY raise taxes from where they are today WITHOUT a negative effect on revenue or GDP growth. THAT is a FACT. While there is a threshhold as to how FAR you can go, you are taking it to the absurdity by suggesting that we cannot raise them at all and that we should be EASING up on them.

What is a fact is the principle we just went over. The more you increase income tax, the more you discourage income earning from people who don't have to earn income. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a one percent increase or a 70% increase... same principle applies. Subsequently, when you make it more attractive to earn an income, people with the wealth to do so, often will. Rich people like to make money, as we've pointed out before... so, when the conditions allow them to make more money, they don't mind doing it, they enjoy it and will continue to do it.

Wrong again. you truly are a fucking idiot. The UNCERTAINTY comes from HOW much they will raise taxes and HOW they collect (ie... from corps/'the rich'/etc...). The UNCERTAINTY comes from whether or not the idiots in BOTH parties will continue driving up debt or are they serious about spending cuts.... you see... if they CUT spending and stop outspending revenue, then we know that FUTURE tax increases BEYOND what is already needed will not be necessary.

You know, I am getting tired of you waddling in with nothing more than your OPINION and proclaiming that I am not only WRONG but a MORON to boot! If I am WRONG then you must provide some evidence to show I am wrong, you can't just proclaim me wrong because you say so! Sorry!

There really isn't any "uncertainty" at all among rich people.... they are VERY certain that this Administration, and liberal democrats in general, are hell-bent on raising upper income tax rates. Their response to this certainty, is to reduce the amount of taxable income they earn by reducing the amount of investment they make in new business or really anything other than tax-free securities and foreign entities you can't tax.

Also, simply stomping your foot and saying 'rich people aren't stupid' is in and of itself fucking retarded. There are a lot of wealthy people who are not intelligent. There are a lot that are brilliant. Blanket statements such as yours simply show how simple minded you are.

I haven't stomped my foot, I just pointed out that rich people aren't generally stupid, especially when it comes to money. Haven't you ever heard the phrase; A fool and his money are soon parted? It basically means what I said, which you apparently think is fucking retarded. Yeah, I guess there are some people who are rich and stupid for a short period of time, but I can't imagine someone so stupid as to invest in a losing proposition over a sure thing.

On what basis do you state they are not uncertain about the Chinese currency? That defies logic given the currency is one of the most manipulated (by the Chinese government) in the world. There is also a great deal of uncertainty in China with regards to their inflationary environment and real estate bubble. So again, do try to stick to topics on which you have some basic fundamental grasp of. you know.... like.... see spot run or the itsy bitsy spider's journey.

Chinese currency is traded on the world market, and its value is based on the Chinese economy. Right now, the Chinese economy is booming, and American investors (aka: The Rich) are making a small fortune as a result of their investments in Chinese currency. What's more, is most of this money is overseas, in Swiss bank accounts and such, and untouchable by US tax collectors. If the Chinese currency begins to look risky... they will invest in the Brazilian currency... or Belize... or wherever... there is always some investment they can make to benefit themselves the most, and as long as mush-brains in America think they can "punish the rich" by raising top marginal income taxes, the one thing "the rich" won't be investing in, is US business ventures.

and there you go again saying they don't give a shit. You are 100% WRONG. you fucking halfwit.

And there you go again, calling me names and proclaiming me wrong based on nothing more than your OPINION! Rich people don't give a shit how much you raise top marginal income tax rates, they don't need or have to earn ANY FUCKING INCOME! They can pull every penny of their wealth out of the US market and invest in some foreign enterprise, and you can't touch a dime of their earnings unless they bring it back here. So go ahead and raise top marginal income tax rates all you like, all you are doing is driving away money!

The above is quite comical. Every post on here shows you have NO understanding of the Laffer Curve. As for the Flat Tax, it is the ONLY fair and progressive tax system being proposed. Period. The only one being stubborn about that is you... who are too blind or too ignorant to realize the FAIR tax is highly regressive.

Fair tax is not highly regressive, we've been through this already in another thread. I do understand the Laffer Curve, but I don't consider it the Holy Grail like you seem to. Laffer says you can reach a point where cutting top marginal rates does not have any effect on increasing revenue, but you have chosen to turn that inside out and say Laffer surmises you can increase tax rates and maintain revenue growth to a certain extent. I pointed out the very principle in play, and how it defies logic, what you surmise. The more you increase income tax rates, the more you discourage income earning from people who no longer need to earn incomes. Can you refute that? Is that not a true statement?

 

[apple0154]

No, I am taking it to the logical extreme. The more you raise taxes on the people who are earning huge incomes, the more you discourage people from earning huge incomes. That's just a fact of life, there's nothing 'absurd' about it at all.

That's absurd! Rich people like money so they will try to make more regardless of what the conditions are.

I disagree. There is no uncertainty when a rich person ponders whether the democrats plan to raise top marginal tax rates, that's fairly certain. They can't pay down the debt or afford the bill they've rung up, without drastically increasing tax rates. Rich people know this, and they aren't about to invest in the plan...again...rich people aren't stupid. Now, they are not uncertain about Chinese currency, they will invest in that, and make lot of money which is socked away in foreign investments, which you can't tax unless they bring it back home. So go ahead and tax the hell out of upper income earners, rich people really don't give a shit! They can still maintain their lifestyles, they can still make money in foreign investments, and at the end of the day, there you stand with your hat in your hand, wondering why you can't generate more tax revenue by increasing their rates.

How do you think the government finds tax cheats, people who collect money "under the table"? The rich can't maintain their lifestyle unless they have access to money. So, the question is, "Where are they getting the money?" If they're getting it overseas and bringing it here, tax them.

What do we do with drug dealers who buy fancy cars and homes and then declare minimum wage/income on their tax forms? We seize their property. If people used undeclared money to buy things, maintain their lifestyle, confiscate the property/items. They'd quickly learn to declare their profits.

This idea we can't tax the rich because we'll upset them is craziness.

 

[Rune]

Rich people most certainly can spend money without ever touching their wealth. Some people are so wealthy they can't even spend all the interest... and none of them mind paying 36% tax on the interest income, that's not a big deal to a rich person. We're talking about rich people earning an income, and they don't have to earn an income, they are already wealthy. So you can tax their incomes 50%, 60%, 70%, it doesn't matter, they don't have to earn income, they make enough (and pay tax) on the interest, and maintain their rich lifestyles. There is NO incentive for them to earn massive incomes, only to have the government take it away.... again, rich people are not stupid.

Again, for the reading comprehension impaired, interest is income.

 

[Rune]

Oh, I know rich people love money, that's why they aren't going to make any money only to have it confiscated in excessive taxation. Again, I bet I know more rich people than you ever will, and I bet their total net worth is more than you could ever imagine in that pea-brain of yours. But you just keep on trying to denigrate me by insinuating I don't know or understand rich people... you don't know me, punk, you have no idea who I know.

Again (for the slow).... Rich people can live off their wealth for a very long time, they do not need to earn an income, it's not required when you reach a certain amount of wealth. The money takes care of itself, and generates sufficient resources to maintain whatever opulent lifestyle you have become accustomed to. Like I said, you can live pretty large on $100k a year, if your house and debts are paid off, there is no need to earn a large income. When you raise top marginal rates, you effectively stop rich people from earning large incomes, they have no motivation to do so. As you said, they LOVE money, they HATE losing money. Why would they invest a chunk of money only to see it taxed away, when they can keep that money in a tax-free security, or better yet... send it over to China and invest in their economy, where you can't tax any damn thing they earn?

WTF, you can't spending something without replenishing it or diminishing it. Wake the fuck up.