Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime

[zappasguitar]

Here is the man who headed the team of interrogators who successfully hunted down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq and the mastermind of the campaign of suicide bombings that had helped plunge Iraq into civil war.

Torture recruited terrorists

As a senior interrogator in Iraq, I conducted more than three hundred interrogations and monitored more than one thousand. I heard numerous foreign fighters state that the reason they came to Iraq to fight was because of the torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay. Our policy of torture and abuse is Al-Qaeda's number one recruiting tool. These same insurgents have killed hundreds, if not thousands, of our troops in Iraq, not to mention Iraqi civilians. Torture and abuse are counterproductive in the long term and, ultimately, cost us more lives than they save.

Torture and abuse cost American lives.

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans.

A) Torture doesn't work

"Torture is extremely ineffective, and it's counterproductive to what we're trying to accomplish," he told reporters. "When we torture somebody, it hardens their resolve," Alexander explained. "The information that you get is unreliable ... And even if you do get reliable information, you're able to stop a terrorist attack, Al-Qaeda's then going to use the fact that we torture people to recruit new members." Alexander says torture techniques used in Iraq consistently failed to produce actionable intelligence and that methods outlined in the US Army Field Manual, which rest on confidence building, consistently worked and gave the interrogators access to critical information.

You did exactly what I predicted: "forgot" to respond to my question.

I doesn't work that way idjit. The burden of proof is on your butt-buddy Bfgrn. Again: Ax him to prove his allegation.

From bfgrn's post:

" I heard numerous foreign fighters state that the reason they came to Iraq to fight was because of the torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay. Our policy of torture and abuse is Al-Qaeda's number one recruiting tool."


"Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq."


"When we torture somebody, it hardens their resolve," Alexander explained. "The information that you get is unreliable ... And even if you do get reliable information, you're able to stop a terrorist attack, Al-Qaeda's then going to use the fact that we torture people to recruit new members."

He's proven his allegations...and we're still waiting on you...of course.

 

[Bfgrn]

You idiot of course the terrorists are going to say that. Who do you believe, those who would cut your dick off and stick it in your mouth or common sense? Common sense states that these guys became terrorists because America supports Israel, Israel is full of Jews and they hate Jews. Common sense states that they didn't become terrorists so they could get caught and get waterboarded.

The right wing mind is devoid of 'common sense'.

Let's try this approach; example. It works on children, so it might work on a right wing mind.

OK...Here are some pictures.

NOW, here is where I need you to be able to pull yourself up to the level of a child...

In those pictures, the person under the hood, being threatened by dogs, lying in a pool of his own blood and at the end of a leash is AN AMERICAN soldier, being tortured by Muslims.

What do you think the response would be in America? Apathy? Acceptance? OR...do you 'think' Army and Marine recruiting offices would see long lines of eager recruits who would love to 'cut the dick off and stick it in the mouth' of those Muslims?

Take your time........................

 

[Southern Chicken]

Water boarding broke KSM- Before using it he was not breaking-he was not talking. All sources attribute his talking with water boarding.

Some attribute it to a combination of activities
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/09/how-the-cia-bro.html

"When Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was strapped down to the water-board, he felt humiliated -- not by the treatment but by the fact that a woman, a red-headed CIA supervisor, was allowed to witness the spectacle, a former intelligence officer told "

But in many cases, the harsh intelligence techniques led to questionable confessions and downright lies, say officers with firsthand knowledge of the program. That included statements that al Qaeda was building dirty bombs.

"It is true that the person who was saying the nuke stuff said it under pressure. The analysts believed it was not true; it did not conform to other information," one former intelligence officer told ABC News.

As these targets were subjected to the increasingly harsh interrogation methods -- in some cases including water-boarding -- KSM sat in his cell in Poland, writing poetry in English, writing letters to the president and to the head of the CIA, and debating the merits of Christianity and Islam with his captor.



U.S. Government documents released in April 2009 indicate the statement that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was never waterboarded again was incorrect. In fact, according to a footnote in newly released, previously classified "Top Secret" memos, the CIA used the waterboard "183 times during March 2003 in the interrogation of KSM."

 

[cancel2 2022]

That's his opinion. A special ops guy called a radio show I was listening to and was waterboarded for training and he said he thought he was going to drown, but it's not torture.

He actually tried it to see what it was like, will you do the same?

 

[WinterBorn]

In other words, Panetta can't say that it didn't, no matter how hard he wants to spin it.

No, he did not say it didn't. But you were asked to cite proof that it did. And you have not done that.

 

[zappasguitar]

He actually tried it to see what it was like, will you do the same?

Of course he won't...he's your standard issue gutless Rightie.

 

[DamnYankee]

The right wing mind is devoid of 'common sense'.

Let's try this approach; example. It works on children, so it might work on a right wing mind.

OK...Here are some pictures.

Gee, that doesn't look like waterboarding to me. Isn't that what we are discussing?

 

[DamnYankee]

He actually tried it to see what it was like, will you do the same?

I've almost drowned before, so I know what it feel like. Again, its not torture.

 

[DamnYankee]

No, he did not say it didn't. But you were asked to cite proof that it did. And you have not done that.

The proof is that the info was obtained through waterboarding- Panetta admits that. Now he and you want to claim that it could have been obtained through other means, so the onus is on you to prove that.

 

[DamnYankee]

Of course he won't...he's your standard issue gutless Rightie.

I'll admit I don't have a gut nearly as large as yours.

 

[Southern Chicken]

The proof is that the info was obtained through waterboarding- Panetta admits that. Now he and you want to claim that it could have been obtained through other means, so the onus is on you to prove that.

Panetta said water-boarding was part of the “enhanced interrogation techniques".

 

[DamnYankee]

Panetta said water-boarding was part of the “enhanced interrogation techniques".

None of which are torture, all as a result of Bush's policies, and all blasted by The Obama and other libtards...

 

[WinterBorn]

None of which are torture, all as a result of Bush's policies, and all blasted by The Obama and other libtards...

Repeating that it is not torture does not change the fact that those who have been waterboarded insist it is torture, and when our soldiers were waterboarded we called it torture. It also fits well within the definition of the word.


It also still boils donw to principles and integrity. Whether we, as a nation, will stoop to the levels of our opponents. Levels that we have condemned as barbaric.

If our principles are only for the easy choices and decisions, they must not mean much.

 

[Southern Chicken]

None of which are torture, all as a result of Bush's policies, and all blasted by The Obama and other libtards...

I think the concern was/is just how effective using these techniques provides us with correct information. As I pointed out we have gotten incorrect information using these same techniques that you beat on your chest praising. There are/were more activities that were involved with finding and killing OBL.

 

[zappasguitar]

Here is the man who headed the team of interrogators who successfully hunted down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq and the mastermind of the campaign of suicide bombings that had helped plunge Iraq into civil war.

Torture recruited terrorists

As a senior interrogator in Iraq, I conducted more than three hundred interrogations and monitored more than one thousand. I heard numerous foreign fighters state that the reason they came to Iraq to fight was because of the torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay. Our policy of torture and abuse is Al-Qaeda's number one recruiting tool. These same insurgents have killed hundreds, if not thousands, of our troops in Iraq, not to mention Iraqi civilians. Torture and abuse are counterproductive in the long term and, ultimately, cost us more lives than they save.

Torture and abuse cost American lives.

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans.

A) Torture doesn't work

"Torture is extremely ineffective, and it's counterproductive to what we're trying to accomplish," he told reporters. "When we torture somebody, it hardens their resolve," Alexander explained. "The information that you get is unreliable ... And even if you do get reliable information, you're able to stop a terrorist attack, Al-Qaeda's then going to use the fact that we torture people to recruit new members." Alexander says torture techniques used in Iraq consistently failed to produce actionable intelligence and that methods outlined in the US Army Field Manual, which rest on confidence building, consistently worked and gave the interrogators access to critical information.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee:

You did exactly what I predicted: "forgot" to respond to my question.

I doesn't work that way idjit. The burden of proof is on your butt-buddy Bfgrn. Again: Ax him to prove his allegation.

From bfgrn's post:

" I heard numerous foreign fighters state that the reason they came to Iraq to fight was because of the torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay. Our policy of torture and abuse is Al-Qaeda's number one recruiting tool."


"Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq."


"When we torture somebody, it hardens their resolve," Alexander explained. "The information that you get is unreliable ... And even if you do get reliable information, you're able to stop a terrorist attack, Al-Qaeda's then going to use the fact that we torture people to recruit new members."

He's proven his allegations...and we're still waiting on you...of course.

Reposted because for some reason the Southern "MAN" can't admit he's been proven wrong yet again.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

So what's your point? Other than to continue your beef with authority figures?

I thought my point was rather obvious. people like you are willing to exempt government employees from the very laws they create so you can have a feeling of safety and security. I think I have good reason for my beef with authority figures after all the evidence i used to point out here, but most people accept that as the norm. more's the pity.

 

[cancel2 2022]

That's his opinion. A special ops guy called a radio show I was listening to and was waterboarded for training and he said he thought he was going to drown, but it's not torture.

So if you are taken to Bhagram airbase and waterboarded you know, in advance, that they don't really mean it and you are not going to die?

 

[DamnYankee]

I think the concern was/is just how effective using these techniques provides us with correct information. As I pointed out we have gotten incorrect information using these same techniques that you beat on your chest praising. There are/were more activities that were involved with finding and killing OBL.

Yet the key information was obtained through *gasp* waterboarding.

 

[DamnYankee]

Here is the man who headed the team of interrogators who successfully hunted down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq and the mastermind of the campaign of suicide bombings that had helped plunge Iraq into civil war.

Torture recruited terrorists

As a senior interrogator in Iraq, I conducted more than three hundred interrogations and monitored more than one thousand. I heard numerous foreign fighters state that the reason they came to Iraq to fight was because of the torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay. Our policy of torture and abuse is Al-Qaeda's number one recruiting tool. These same insurgents have killed hundreds, if not thousands, of our troops in Iraq, not to mention Iraqi civilians. Torture and abuse are counterproductive in the long term and, ultimately, cost us more lives than they save.

Torture and abuse cost American lives.

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans.

A) Torture doesn't work

"Torture is extremely ineffective, and it's counterproductive to what we're trying to accomplish," he told reporters. "When we torture somebody, it hardens their resolve," Alexander explained. "The information that you get is unreliable ... And even if you do get reliable information, you're able to stop a terrorist attack, Al-Qaeda's then going to use the fact that we torture people to recruit new members." Alexander says torture techniques used in Iraq consistently failed to produce actionable intelligence and that methods outlined in the US Army Field Manual, which rest on confidence building, consistently worked and gave the interrogators access to critical information.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee:

You did exactly what I predicted: "forgot" to respond to my question.

I doesn't work that way idjit. The burden of proof is on your butt-buddy Bfgrn. Again: Ax him to prove his allegation.





Reposted because for some reason the Southern "MAN" can't admit he's been proven wrong yet again.

Except waterboarding isn't torture.

 

[DamnYankee]

I thought my point was rather obvious. people like you are willing to exempt government employees from the very laws they create so you can have a feeling of safety and security. I think I have good reason for my beef with authority figures after all the evidence i used to point out here, but most people accept that as the norm. more's the pity.

You obviously drew the wrong conclusion, somehow...