Osama Bin Laden DEAD!

Bush's policies lead to the death of bin-Laden:

In 2003, the CIA captured Mohammed, the group's operational leader. Mohammed was interrogated using what the agency called "enhanced interrogation techniques" such as sleep deprivation and the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding. Months after being waterboarded, Mohammed acknowledged knowing al-Kuwaiti, former officials say.
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http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2011/may/08/WSNAT01-bin-laden-death-reignites-cia-debate-ar-1013993/
 
Ice Dancer said:
I do not believe it is torture and I am not alone...way to argue a point.
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Have you ever undergone the procedure? I have, In a British SERE course. I was certain I was going to die. Hutchins also did not believe it was torture until he underwent the the procedure. Afterwards he was certain it was torture. Anyone that has not undergone this procedure has absolutely no basis for their belief that it is torture.
 
Socrtease said:
Have you ever undergone the procedure? I have, In a British SERE course. I was certain I was going to die. Hutchins also did not believe it was torture until he underwent the the procedure. Afterwards he was certain it was torture. Anyone that has not undergone this procedure has absolutely no basis for their belief that it is torture.
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It is an interrogation technique that was reserved for 3 individuals believed to have relevant information vital to the security and safety of American citizens-it worked. I have a nephew who was part of the rendition program at Gitmo- I think he would sympathize with your assertion, excepting that he would still not call it torture- The idea, was in fact to make someone think and feel as though they were drowning-but indeed they were not doing so. It is not like branding someone or breaking their bones. It is not plucking out eyeballs or mutilation-all of which are actual and real. It is indeed a last resort method of interrogation-and should remain as such with only a president able to sanction it.
 
If it's not torture why isn't it used as an official law enforcement technique?

According to righties, waterboarding would have been a godsend in getting info from the likes of Ted Bundy, Dennis Rader, John Gotti, or the countless suspects held in custody right here in the U.S. of A.
 
christiefan915 said:
If it's not torture why isn't it used as an official law enforcement technique?

According to righties, waterboarding would have been a godsend in getting info from the likes of Ted Bundy, Dennis Rader, John Gotti, or the countless suspects held in custody right here in the U.S. of A.
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There are a few distinctions. First, the criminals you mention above were American citizens entitled to certain Constitutional and legal rights; secondly, their crimes were not an act of war against the United States; and thirdly, any information they could have provided would not be critical to the security of the United States. Those are only a few differences; I'm certain there are many others. I have no strong opinion either way on the issue. But there is a big difference between waterboarding American citizens and waterboarding enemy combatants.
 
King of Gods said:
There are a few distinctions. First, the criminals you mention above were American citizens entitled to certain Constitutional and legal rights; secondly, their crimes were not an act of war against the United States; and thirdly, any information they could have provided would not be critical to the security of the United States. Those are only a few differences; I'm certain there are many others. I have no strong opinion either way on the issue. But there is a big difference between waterboarding American citizens and waterboarding enemy combatants.
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But my point is that they're saying it's only pouring water on someone's face. Stated in those terms it seems like a harmless way of prying info out of someone, no worse than the brow-beating, bullying, bright lights, etc. that are used already.

My other issue is that many detainees are being held without being charged so there was no proof of crime, let alone an act of war against the US.

I do have a strong opinion, that we shouldn't do it, period.
 
christiefan915 said:
But my point is that they're saying it's only pouring water on someone's face. Stated that way it seems like a harmless way of prying info out of someone, no worse than the brow-beating, bullying, bright lights, etc. that are used already.
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Interesting point (sorry, I missed it the first time around). I agree with you. Anyone who denies that waterboarding is torture is either ignorant on the subject, or intellectually dishonest. It most certainly is a form of torture.
 
christiefan915 said:
My other issue is that many detainees are being held without being charged so there was no proof of crime, let alone an act of war against the US.
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Oh look, another liberal who thinks our troops are cops. Should they Mirandize these terrorists on the battlefield?
 
christiefan915 said:
According to righties, waterboarding would have been a godsend in getting info from the likes of Ted Bundy, Dennis Rader, John Gotti, or the countless suspects held in custody right here in the U.S. of A.
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Oh really? Is that my position?

Stop acting so retarded.
 
Damn Yankee said:
That's because the procedure is designed to make you think that. But you didn't.
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If it's designed to make you think you're going to die, then it causes mental agony as defined in your M-W definition.

And M-W defines that as torture.

Definition of TORTURE
1
a : anguish of body or mind : agony b : something that causes agony or pain
2
: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3
: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining
 
christiefan915 said:
If it's designed to make you think you're going to die, then it causes mental agony as defined in your M-W definition.

And M-W defines that as torture.

Definition of TORTURE
1
a : anguish of body or mind : agony b : something that causes agony or pain
2
: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3
: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining
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Paying taxes causes me mental agony. You're using the definition incorrectly, otherwise paying taxes would also be torture.
 
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