More social conservatism at its best

[apple0154]

And if it isn't, there is no option to choose where it is. In some places they even make it illegal for you to go to a private practice. The reality is, that when the cuts come, they'll come there too and we all must know that they are coming.

The option is at the voting booth.

Yes, some countries do make private practice (or more accurately described as additional billing) illegal because people can easily be manipulated, especially when they are ill.

As for cuts, yes, they are coming. Cuts as in people losing their job. Cuts as in people being less able to afford health insurance.

The simple solution is to put health care at the top of the government's list of priorities. Right now it sits close to the bottom.

Defense, then health care. Then all the other social programs with miscellaneous items such as roads and bridges and parks and statues and whatever else further down the list. It's just a matter of rearranging the list just as families do every day across America.

 

[WinterBorn]

Looting Social Security - by Paul Craig Roberts who served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration earning fame as a co-founder of Reaganomics.

Before the "black helicopters" of the 1990s, there were right-wingers claiming access to secret documents from the 1920s proving that the entire concept of a "civil rights movement" had been hatched in the Soviet Union; when the landmark 1964 Civil Rights Act was introduced, one frequently read in the South that it would "enslave" whites.

Liberals definitely don't want government running anyone's life, they view all men as equal and want government to protect the little guy from being bullied and steamrolled by the big guy.

Conservatives on the other hand worship the big guys, they look up at them as better. That is why conservatism has always tried to undermine democracy and replace it with some form of an aristocracy. Today, that would be a plutocracy.

And dems want the gov't to control everyone's lives. That is the ultimate "big guy". The message the liberals send out is "You are not capable of running your own life, so we are going to do it for you".

The civil rights movement was started by republicans and opposed by souther democrats.

As for raiding social security, the only reason Clinton can claim to have had a "surplus" was to ignore the massive IOUs left in the social security coffers.

 

[Bfgrn]

And dems want the gov't to control everyone's lives. That is the ultimate "big guy". The message the liberals send out is "You are not capable of running your own life, so we are going to do it for you".

The civil rights movement was started by republicans and opposed by souther democrats.

As for raiding social security, the only reason Clinton can claim to have had a "surplus" was to ignore the massive IOUs left in the social security coffers.

The ultimate 'big guy' is absolutely loved and embraced by conservatives. Conservatives don't hate government, they hate when liberals are running government. When a despot like Scott Walker gains power, you right wing authoritarian followers believe dictatorial powers are an American right.

Liberals believe in democracy and are keenly aware of the dangers of big, be it government, corporations or plutocrats. Conservatives believe in an aristocracy and government must allow the aristocrats to prevail.

 

[WinterBorn]

Liberals believe in democracy and are keenly aware of the dangers of big, be it government, corporations or plutocrats.

I cannot believe you actually typed that. Must've been tough to do with a straight face.

 

[Bfgrn]

I cannot believe you actually typed that. Must've been tough to do with a straight face.

Why is that? I have complained numerous times about the ultimate nanny state conservatives have built over the last 40 years. But you right wing authoritarians don't even see it as big government. You conservatives see it as God's work.

It's ironic, conservatives scream, cry and groan about BIG government, warn of the dire perils of government intervention, incrementalism and intrusion, but most of all, they always hammer home the ever lurking 'unintended consequences' of the same...

REAL incrementalism

So either conservatives are lying, or this is THEIR idea of a 'Nanny State'

Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
Edmund Burke

 

[WinterBorn]

Why is that? I have complained numerous times about the ultimate nanny state conservatives have built over the last 40 years. But you right wing authoritarians don't even see it as big government. You see it as God's work.

For someone who cried when you only THINK someone tries to say what you think, you do love to try and tell others what they think and believe.

I see it as God's work? Please provide a link to anyplace I have pushed for bigger gov't.

It's ironic, conservatives scream, cry and groan about BIG government, warn of the dire perils of government intervention, incrementalism and intrusion, but most of all, they always hammer home the ever lurking 'unintended consequences' of the same...

Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
Edmund Burke

If you look at the push for social program and redistribution of wealth, that is a liberal's dream. I don't know any conservatives that want no help for the poor. But I also didn't see many dems who weren't outraged by the suggestion that those on welfare pass a drug screen or be pushed to find work.

 

[Bfgrn]

For someone who cried when you only THINK someone tries to say what you think, you do love to try and tell others what they think and believe.

I see it as God's work? Please provide a link to anyplace I have pushed for bigger gov't.



If you look at the push for social program and redistribution of wealth, that is a liberal's dream. I don't know any conservatives that want no help for the poor. But I also didn't see many dems who weren't outraged by the suggestion that those on welfare pass a drug screen or be pushed to find work.

I modified my post to address your hyper-sensitivity. How ironic you have no problem constantly telling me what liberals believe.

It is also ironic that the President who changed Welfare was a Democrat. The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.

I am dead set against drug screening for anyone. It is BIG government gross intervention into people's lives my obtuse statist. It is that kind of thinking that led to the right wing nanny state! The US population is 5% of the world population, and 25% of all human beings that are incarcerated and being imprisoned in the USA!!!

 

[WinterBorn]

I modified my post to address your hyper-sensitivity. How ironic you have no problem constantly telling me what liberals believe.

It is also ironic that the President who changed Welfare was a Democrat. The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.

I am dead set against drug screening for anyone. It is BIG government gross intervention into people's lives my obtuse statist. It is that kind of thinking that led to the right wing nanny state! The US population is 5% of the world population, and 25% of all human beings that are incarcerated and being imprisoned in the USA!!!

Indeed I do tell you what liberals believe and what they do. But that is not what I said.

See if you can tell the difference between these two statements:

1) Liberals are pushing more gov't programs at us.

2) You liberals are pushing more gov't programs at su.


Can you grasp that?

 

[Bfgrn]

Indeed I do tell you what liberals believe and what they do. But that is not what I said.

See if you can tell the difference between these two statements:

1) Liberals are pushing more gov't programs at us.

2) You liberals are pushing more gov't programs at su.


Can you grasp that?

So, you want to defend conservatism, you just don't want to be called a conservative...got it!

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Then you certainly do not espouse the tenets of Liberalism, as you distrust parents to determine what is or is not healthy for their children, you distrust small busines owners on hwo they are best able to make a living, and you distrust tens of millions of gun owners.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Government medical does not operate that way. If a doctor decides you need a specific treatment and that treatment is covered then the procedure goes ahead.

and if the procedure is NOT covered, then you are SOL.

Here are a couple of things to clarify that statement. Because government medical has to cover every individual it has to include the most procedures possible. In other words it encompasses more coverage than the vast majority of individual policies due to the fact it has to include every citizen and a large number of possible ailments.

The VA certainly doesn't.

The second point is if a procedure is covered, it's covered for everyone. Procedures are not decided on individual cases.

Oh yes it most certainly is. Again, just look at the VA. They make determinations such as this all the time.

 

[Bfgrn]

I don't know any conservatives that want no help for the poor.

Really? I strongly disagree, because actions speak louder than words.

The Republicans and the right in America today believe the only way to solve our problems is through punishment. And if that doesn't work, the punishment is just not severe enough. I suggest you research the 1994 Crimes Bill and how Republicans and the right demonized the most constructive part of that bill.

In the early to mid 90's Congress crafted a crimes bill. The original funding framework called for equal thirds of the money to go to 1) police enforcement 2) prisons 3) crime prevention, education.

The crime prevention part of the bill would go toward education, job training, community engagement by law enforcement, child-centered activities (money for arts and crafts, dance programs, recreational activities, nutrition training, and so forth), assorted inner city youth activity programs, urban parks and recreation, schools (money is to be used "to improve the academic and social development of youths by instituting a collaborative structure that trains and coordinates efforts of social workers, teachers, and principles."), youth development for such activities as "providing youth with life skills", drug treatment programs in prisons and facilities like community centers.

Statistics showed that the majority of youth crimes are committed after school lets out and before dinner time. It is not difficult to see what is missing during that time period, adult supervision. So the idea was to provide a safe and supervised facility where these kids could go.

It was during this period that Newt Gingrich and the 'Contract with America' Republicans took over Congress.

The 'Contract with America' Republicans attacked and demonized this part of the bill and did everything they could to defund the crime prevention, education part of the bill.

The real irony of that debate; Police Chiefs from around the country ascended on Washington to lobby Congress FOR the prevention provisions, because they knew that the best way to help law enforcement was not more police or more punishment, it was through education, training and community activism.

Education is the cheap defense of nations.
Edmund Burke

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Why is that? I have complained numerous times about the ultimate nanny state conservatives have built over the last 40 years. But you right wing authoritarians don't even see it as big government. You conservatives see it as God's work.

It's ironic, conservatives scream, cry and groan about BIG government, warn of the dire perils of government intervention, incrementalism and intrusion, but most of all, they always hammer home the ever lurking 'unintended consequences' of the same...

REAL incrementalism

So either conservatives are lying, or this is THEIR idea of a 'Nanny State'

Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
Edmund Burke

Actually it was Roosevelt that started the trend of criminalizing drug use with the passage of marijuana prohibition in the 30's. And he personally ordered the incarceration of millions of Americans, threatening to pack the USSC with judges that would favor his brand of 'justice' if they ruled his order unconstitutional. Laws criminalizing 'black' behavior (like recreational drug use) started and were most prominent in the south during the reign of Southern Democrats. Democratic president Bill Clinton continuted the trend of incrementalization against both drug users and gun owners during his two years, and currently President Obama is doing everything in his power to strengthen the exeutive powers of the president, expanding abuses of power and reducing the rights of everyday Americans.

No my hackish friend, both parties are to blame for the abuses that have been perpetuated upon us Americans.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

For all to see...the monster has been created in the right wing mind.

yet again, I tell you that the slippery slope is not a fallacious argument. I can prove it and blow your position clearly out of the water. do you accept and will you acknowledge it's real?

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

I am dead set against drug screening for anyone. It is BIG government gross intervention into people's lives my obtuse statist. It is that kind of thinking that led to the right wing nanny state! The US population is 5% of the world population, and 25% of all human beings that are incarcerated and being imprisoned in the USA!!!

Yet you would have no problem injecting big government into other peoples private lives for something as simple as owning a tool. Your intellectual inconsistencies are most apparent to everyone but yourself.

 

[Damocles]

The option is at the voting booth.

Yes, some countries do make private practice (or more accurately described as additional billing) illegal because people can easily be manipulated, especially when they are ill.

As for cuts, yes, they are coming. Cuts as in people losing their job. Cuts as in people being less able to afford health insurance.

The simple solution is to put health care at the top of the government's list of priorities. Right now it sits close to the bottom.

Defense, then health care. Then all the other social programs with miscellaneous items such as roads and bridges and parks and statues and whatever else further down the list. It's just a matter of rearranging the list just as families do every day across America.

I disagree, I believe that we could create a unique and better system without ceding all "security" over a lifetime to the government. That the idea that government is first the "only" solution and then attempting to make me believe that they are the "perfect" solution is just sad.

I'd prefer a regional option using controls like PUCs for pricing to simply handing all responsibility to the government from cradle to grave. The government should be there for a temporary safety net and should not be seen as a successful solution, let alone the only one to work towards. We have a unique system of states we should use (and most definitely should have been using) to seek the best and most successful solution, Mass. led us in that regard, unfortunately their solution wasn't successful in controlling costs and equally unfortunate was copied by the Feds without seeking a better solution.

I agree we should make it a priority, just not with your belief that it should be the sole solution.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yet you would have no problem injecting big government into other peoples private lives for something as simple as owning a tool. Your intellectual inconsistencies are most apparent to everyone but yourself.

A TOOL???????? You are a MORON. A LETHAL tool.

I believe in common sense gun control. Gun ownership may be a right, but not everyone should have that right.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

A TOOL???????? You are a MORON. A LETHAL tool.

I believe in common sense gun control. Gun ownership may be a right, but not everyone should have that right.

It is only lethal when used as such, no more or less so than any other instrument. It is a tool that serves a purpose. And no, you do not. You believe in incarcerating otherwise law abiding citizens for committing no harm to society whatsoever, for life.

 

[Damocles]

A TOOL???????? You are a MORON. A LETHAL tool.

I believe in common sense gun control. Gun ownership may be a right, but not everyone should have that right.

Then you better start working on a Constitutional Amendment. Good luck with that.

 

[Bfgrn]

Actually it was Roosevelt that started the trend of criminalizing drug use with the passage of marijuana prohibition in the 30's. And he personally ordered the incarceration of millions of Americans, threatening to pack the USSC with judges that would favor his brand of 'justice' if they ruled his order unconstitutional. Laws criminalizing 'black' behavior (like recreational drug use) started and were most prominent in the south during the reign of Southern Democrats. Democratic president Bill Clinton continuted the trend of incrementalization against both drug users and gun owners during his two years, and currently President Obama is doing everything in his power to strengthen the exeutive powers of the president, expanding abuses of power and reducing the rights of everyday Americans.

No my hackish friend, both parties are to blame for the abuses that have been perpetuated upon us Americans.

LOOK at the chart. The numbers say you are full of shit

Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
Gerald Ford (1973-1977)
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
George Bush (1989-1993)
Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
George W. Bush (2001-2009)
Barack Obama (2009-present)