WHAT EXACTLY HAS THE WORLD EVER DONE FOR BRITAIN?

england did many good things for many countries...screw china...as for india....they have moved on and they still embrace english culture (cricket)....the ME....they fucked themselves. africa.....i don't know....i've read many books on the history of africa and british influence....but they are all opinions. england did bad and england gave good. it is a conundrum.
You might say screw china, but since they have around 1.5 BILLION people, that's a lot of cultural bias to ignore. And the ME has its problems in no small part to how Britain decided to divide it up. Same with Africa, though it's not just the British who fucked that up. And you kinda ignored all of Europe.
 
You might say screw china, but since they have around 1.5 BILLION people, that's a lot of cultural bias to ignore. And the ME has its problems in no small part to how Britain decided to divide it up. Same with Africa, though it's not just the British who fucked that up. And you kinda ignored all of Europe.

fair enough....but the chinese influence on the world has only recently started. china is a juggernaut, no doubt. but their influence on the world, is recent, because they are a nation that looks inward, until now....maybe. if china ever stretched their power like the england or the US....they would be a formidable foe.
 
We tend to overlook the fact that many (most) modern opinions of Britain, Europe, Africa et al, are made in the light of modern standards. British dominance began in the fifteenth century when life was just a tad different from today. You may be critical of many things but before saying that this country or that country f**ked up you should consider what you might have done given the restrictions placed upon you at that time. Precious few means of communication, huge amounts of ignorance of the rest of the world, an imposed dominance of the Christian church.
Hindsight judgements are easy. There is no point in beating oneself over the head about what happened. It wasn't long ago that your country not only had slaves but could see nothing wrong with keeping fellow humans in bondage. There was no guilt then. Decisions and opinions were formed with the knowledge available at the time.
So, having hopefully, put down the weight of four centuries of bashing in the heads of various tribes of 'fuzzy-wuzzies' we might simply say that the British left a lot of good stuff and invented nearly everything that makes life today, better than it was before.
American imperialism has been a very brief, in comparison, exercise and must now make way for the dominance of Asia. History shows that imperialism brings untold suffering and slaughter. Let's hope that future empires find another way.
 
fair enough...but to paint england as all evil is not correct either. not saying you're doing that, rather, many overlook england's contributions because of some bad they have done. all people, all country's, all kingdom's etc....have done bad. and america is no exception.

I haven't painted them as evil, I simply said that they really shouldn't be whining.
 
The first to protest the slave trade? Other than all the slaves? Parliamentary government? Wasn't that the Greeks originally? Postal system? Pretty sure it was the Sareceans there. Steam engine was built by the Greeks first. Jet engine was developed by work of several different nations, including America, Germany, and Italy. Penicillin is French.

Not that you Brits didn't do alright. The Boxer primer is very nice.

The Greek Ekklesia was not the same as a parliament as it was not representative, William Wilberforce had the Slavery Abolition Act passed in 1833, modern postal system set up in 1840 by Rowland Hill, the jet engine was invented and patented by Frank Whittle in 1930. Oh, and Penicillin was definitely not developed by the French. Further Britain gave Penicillin, Radar and jet technology to the US for nothing.
 
The first to protest the slave trade? Other than all the slaves? Parliamentary government? Wasn't that the Greeks originally? Postal system? Pretty sure it was the Sareceans there. Steam engine was built by the Greeks first. Jet engine was developed by work of several different nations, including America, Germany, and Italy. Penicillin is French.

Not that you Brits didn't do alright. The Boxer primer is very nice.

The Greek Ekklesia was not the same as a parliament as it was not representative, William Wilberforce had the Slavery Abolition Act passed in 1833, modern postal system set up in 1840 by Rowland Hill, the jet engine was invented and patented by Frank Whittle in 1930. Oh, and Penicillin was definitely not developed by the French, I have already set Mott straight about that. Further, Britain gave Penicillin, Radar and jet technology to the US for nothing, who were so grateful that they proceeded to expunge it from US history altogether apparently.
 
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Parliamentary government? Wasn't that the Greeks originally?

no, the Greeks had the city/state......parliamentary government actually comes from Geneva Switzerland where it was thought up by a guy named John Calvin.....it was imposed on the British by some Dutchman one of the times the Catholics lost the ongoing war with the Protestants.....
 
no, the Greeks had the city/state......parliamentary government actually comes from Geneva Switzerland where it was thought up by a guy named John Calvin.....it was imposed on the British by some Dutchman one of the times the Catholics lost the ongoing war with the Protestants.....

I am not sure where you learnt your history but you are misinformed. Actually the first parliament can be dated back to Iceland in 930 AD. I'm assuming that this Dutchman you refer to is William of Orange and again that's wrong as the English parliamentary tradition started in 1265.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=se...resnum=11&ved=0CHMQ5wIwCg&fp=96e11322d6deed39
 
lol....I think I sense the root of the problem....according to the timeline in your link, Britain had its first parliament in 1265....and 1559...and 1625......and 1654.....not to mention 1707......

obviously one of the things Britain did NOT give the world was consensus....
 
lol....I think I sense the root of the problem....according to the timeline in your link, Britain had its first parliament in 1265....and 1559...and 1625......and 1654.....not to mention 1707......

obviously one of the things Britain did NOT give the world was consensus....

Well there is a consensus on the fact that you were wrong.
 
no, the Greeks had the city/state......parliamentary government actually comes from Geneva Switzerland where it was thought up by a guy named John Calvin.....it was imposed on the British by some Dutchman one of the times the Catholics lost the ongoing war with the Protestants.....

Here's a cool source that really lays out the timeline on origins for western philosophies regarding governments.

Here's a snippet from Calvin's Institutes.

John Calvin was the second great force behind Protestantism in the sixteenth century; unlike Luther, Calvin had to get his hands dirty in the actual mechanics of running a nominal, Protestant state in Geneva. Calvin argues for two types of government in his compendium of theology, "The Institutes of the Christian Religion." One government rules the spiritual or inward aspect of humanity, that is, spiritual government, and one government rules the external aspects of human life, that is, secular government. This idea he ultimately derives from Saint Augustine's Two Cities, the City of God and the City of Man. Calvin does religiously argue for the freedom and independence of the individual from secular authority, but can't abandon the notion of civil government. Therefore, the last chapter of his huge book deals with the legitimation of civil government; this legitimation would play a profound effect on the formation of the American democracy. What justifies civil authority? How is it connected to religion? How might this argument have affected the formation of American democracy? What, in fact, does Calvin have to say about democracy? How would you relate his discussion of democracy to various Reformation principles we've studied? Finally, what is the connection between religion and government? How is government supposed to contribute to religion?

Your text is taken from John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, translated by John Allen (London: 1813)

another great source
 
The thing is...people tend to hate states/people/teams etc. that are successful.

Everybody hates the Americans at the minute (although to be honest one or two of you are actually quite nice), everybody used to hate the English but we haven't been very successful recently and have been living off past glories for the last half century. Give it another 50 years and people will merely think of us in the same way they think of Belgium or a doddery old maiden aunt, sitting alongside France in a geriatric ward arguing over who gets to use the pisspot first. You can smile America but it will come to you soon enough.

Anyway, here's to the future, where we can all unite to hate the fecking Chinese. Arseholes.
 
Britain's development of political philosophy is a crucial element of American life since the Revolution. Cato's Letters and Real Whig Ideology, the writings of John Locke and Richard Hooker, English Common Law and Constitutional Principles (the latter of which was a huge part of the education of our John Adams growing up). No society since the fall of Rome can claim to have given more to the field of political science than Great Britain. While the US did add some of its own ideas onto these, its real success wasn't in developing them, but in selling them to the rest of the Western world.
 
Relations between the British and the Native Americans were less good. Most of the land east of the great lakes was taken from the local peoples by about 1830. By 1870 they had lost most of the open prairies of the Midwestern USA and Canada. However, Native Americans generally preferred British rule to rule by the USA or by the settlers in British North America. Throughout the 19th century there was a steady stream of native Americans out of the USA and into British North America. The Native Americans even fought on the British side against the settlers in Canada when they rebelled against British rule in 1837. Native Americans also developed new skills and played important roles in the economic development of Canada. They had a franchise from the British government to run certain types of trade on the mighty Saint Lawrence River. They developed a special skill in rigging the high masts and moorings for the bridges that crossed the Saint Lawrence. They helped to develop the growing tourist trade in the later 1800s. All of this, however, could not disguise the fact that many had lost their traditional lands and way of life. Native Americans were probably treated better under British rule than in the USA or by the settlers after the British left Canada. This is not the same thing as saying that they were treated fairly and equally by the British.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/empire/g2/cs5/background.htm


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That's not exactly true. Native Americans pretty much disregarded British rule and viewed them pretty much in the same light as American settlers. Invaders in their land. It was true that the British had better relationships with Native Americans then the Americans did but that was only because the British were less greedy for land then the Americans were. The British were famous for using and manipulating the Indians in achieving their political aims in North America. The Indians, particularly the Iroquois league, were very much aware of British duplicity in this respect and highly resented but viewed the British as a far less evil then the Americans who were waging a war of annihilation against Native Americans. The point being, they were not in the least bit naive about British intentions. Sure the British had some brilliant Indian agents, such as, Sir William Johnson who was quite succesfull in persuading the powerful Iroquois league in siding with the British, which, in retrospect was a collossal blunder by the Iroquois. With 20:20 hind sight it can be said that the French certainly were more concerned with the best interest of the Indians then the Britsh were. One only needs to look at modern native American culture today to verify that. Where the American interest prevailed, the Indians were uprooted and anihilated and their culture disintigrated. In the regions of Canada where British interest prevailed the Indians have been largely disinherited from the main stream but not marginalized as in the US but in the regions of Canada, particularly in the interior, where French influence prevailed, native American societies are whole, with their culture and identity intact. The main reasons for this difference? The French mainly wanted to establish trade relations with Native Americans where as the British wanted their land and the Americans wanted their land at all cost.
 
The Greek Ekklesia was not the same as a parliament as it was not representative, William Wilberforce had the Slavery Abolition Act passed in 1833, modern postal system set up in 1840 by Rowland Hill, the jet engine was invented and patented by Frank Whittle in 1930. Oh, and Penicillin was definitely not developed by the French. Further Britain gave Penicillin, Radar and jet technology to the US for nothing.

Speaking of representation, I was wondering if you could explain the modern Parliament to me a little, as I've not studied it. One thing I know that American colonists disagreed with Parliament was the extent of its representation - a concept known as "virtual representation." The Americans had set up local governments operating under the principle of what they called "actual representation." Does the modern Parliament (at least Commons) represent the whole of England, Wales, Scotland, and N. Ireland fairly well these days, or is there still a bit of a disconnect?
 
Ask yourself this question, how many democracies did the French leave behind in their former colonies in Indo-China, Africa and South America? I can't name one but maybe you know of a country that I missed?
That's a good point but I"m not talking about those. I'm talking about the British relationship with Native Americans. You're analogy would probably have been better if you had used those as an example and not Native Americans cause British relations with Native Americans is hardly something the British can be proud of. It was manipulative, exploitative, disengenous and mostly dishonest. It always seemed, no matter how well intentioned the Brits were in their dealings with the Native Americans, the Native Americans got the shit end of the stick. Often Native Americans suffered tragic consequences at the hands of the Americans due to British manipulation. This was particularly true during the period of the 7 years war (AKA, French and Indian War), the American Revolution and the War of 1812. In fact it was a direct result of the British provoking the Iroquois to make war with the Americans during the revolutionary war that resulted in George Washington implementing (and therefore establishing a long standing policy) of genocide against the Native Americans. Not exactly something the Brits should be proud of or, obviously, us Americans. As I said, it was a poor analogy.
 
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Speaking of representation, I was wondering if you could explain the modern Parliament to me a little, as I've not studied it. One thing I know that American colonists disagreed with Parliament was the extent of its representation - a concept known as "virtual representation." The Americans had set up local governments operating under the principle of what they called "actual representation." Does the modern Parliament (at least Commons) represent the whole of England, Wales, Scotland, and N. Ireland fairly well these days, or is there still a bit of a disconnect?

:D A slight disconnect, yes.

:D
 
Britain's development of political philosophy is a crucial element of American life since the Revolution. Cato's Letters and Real Whig Ideology, the writings of John Locke and Richard Hooker, English Common Law and Constitutional Principles (the latter of which was a huge part of the education of our John Adams growing up). No society since the fall of Rome can claim to have given more to the field of political science than Great Britain. While the US did add some of its own ideas onto these, its real success wasn't in developing them, but in selling them to the rest of the Western world.
I'd say France and Greece have contributed just as much to the western political philosophy as England.
 
Right, the article is trying to paint it all in a good light. They owe the world some good things after creating an empire by killing lots of people and using the rest of the world as a welcome mat.

Britain was the most benign of all the empires, if you don't think that is true then look at the history of the Spanish, French, Dutch, Portuguese, Belgians and Germans with empire. The USA has hardly covered itself with glory with its treatment of indigenous populations or the way it supported tinpot dictators in South or Central America for so long.
 
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