How You Can Pull a GE on Taxes

WinterBorn said:
There is no need to defend GE at all. They did nothing wrong. People got pissed off. Nothing new there. Some news media outlets made the giant corporation look like they are evil and are stealing. Nothing new there.

The biggest thing no one seems to notice is that GE did nothing wrong. In fact, it is a good thing.

When we tax corporations and businesses, we tax the people again. Businesses consider taxes a cost of doing business and will adjust their prices to maintain the same profit margin. No corporation paid taxes last year. We (the consumer) paid all the taxes charged to them.


As for the "firestorm" and that being a justification for it being a topic, then why not just discuss Molly Cyrus? She has certainly been a firestorm in the media as well.
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I never heard of Molly Cyrus but am willing to sound off on her if you start a thread.

Edit: Unless you mean Miley Cyrus? A spoiled, over-praised brat going the way of many Hollywood children.
 
christiefan915 said:
I never heard of Molly Cyrus but am willing to sound off on her if you start a thread.

Edit: Unless you mean Miley Cyrus? A spoiled, over-praised brat going the way of many Hollywood children.
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LOL Ok, Miley Cyrus. But my point is the same. If we only discuss what is a "firestorm" in the media, and only discuss what the media says, we are wasting bandwidth.


The truth of the matter is the same, regardless of what the media says.
 
christiefan915 said:
Full of bullshit, really?

From the article: "There's been a firestorm this week over the news that General Electric will pay no tax—at least, no federal corporate income tax—on last year's profits."

Note the word "firestorm". This has been a hot topic and a current event for the past week. Why shouldn't we talk about it?

Nobody likes to think they're getting screwed over re: taxes while billion-dollar corporations get away scot-free, and that's the perception. We've read posts from both sides on the issue. We now understand that as far as anybody outside the IRS knows, what GE did was legal. It doesn't mean that something wasn't done within the legal definition that's questionable, i.e. bloating deductions.

Feel free to defend or criticize GE as you see fit. It doesn't make the topic "bullshit."
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It is ONLY a 'firestorm' because the media knows that they can jerk the chains of the far left and watch them spaz out simply by creating an article showing 'a big company is taking advantage of you'... blah blah blah.

If the article title was accurate, it would have read 'GE minimizes its taxes like everyone else using the US tax code' how much of a 'firestorm' would THAT have created?
 
bravo said:
Why? Because its a stupid question.....

of course someone would oversee the process.....business itself would administer the major portion by collecting some percentage of employees wages and send it to Washington just as they do now....nothing else would be required for these employees at all, no filing, no refund, no nothing. Even interest could be ignored until its actually taken ....
details, details, details....I don't claim to be a CPA and I'm not gonna write the legislation....

Naturally, some auditors would be required to oversee independent contractors and the self employed ... to police them so to speak....no matter....I don't think it would require the monstrosity called the IRS we have now...and the thousands of un-understandable regulations we now have.....
and best of all, I hope.....no more forced social engineering through taxation.....
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Dude, you let Christie deflect away the legitimate point you raised. You're slowing down...
 
WinterBorn said:
Jeez this thread is full of bullshit.

Why are you people attacking GE? Would you expect them to pay when they have managed to find loopholes and deductions to avoid it? There is not a business out there that pays more than it owes.

And I love the article calling it "legal theft". WTF? Can you get more dramatic with the bullshit? This is no more "theft" than you accepting the free samples handed out at the grocery stores. You didn't pay for that food. GE did what it could to reduce its taxes. Duh. Is that a shock?

And yet no one has done the slightest bit of research to find out the names of the elected officials who GAVE them this gift of tax deductions and loopholes. You are angry at the wrong people.
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It's been documented over the last 30 years when various administrations and/or Congress gave these tax deductions to super corporations like GE that people protested (unsuccessfully) and pointed to the people who were toadying for the corporate PAC that wanted these cuts.

List the administration or politician along with GE and I've got no problem with that. But in this time when the neocon GOP is wailing and railing about cutting "entitlements" and social services to save the economy, they fight like hell to keep the outrageous tax breaks for the rich and rich corporations...which add up to a hell of a lot more in lost revenue. Hypocrisy seems boundless among the neocon GOP on this topic.
 
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christiefan915 said:
You could have saved us the nausea caused by reading your lame rejoinders by using the IA function.
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Which is exactly what I did to the little dope after exposing him for a neocon liar and a fool for the last time. Bravo's too dumb to catch on, whcih makes his obsession with me all the more pathetic. Save for seeing his blatherings in responses quoted by others, I can only empathize as you deal with his intellectually impotent Bravado, Chrisite.
 
Taichiliberal said:
It's been documented over the last 30 years when various administrations and/or Congress gave these tax deductions to super corporations like GE that people protested (unsuccessfully) and pointed to the people who were toadying for the corporate PAC that wanted these cuts.

List the administration or politician along with GE and I've got no problem with that. But in this time when the neocon GOP is wailing and railing about cutting "entitlements" and social services to save the economy, they fight like hell to keep the outrageous tax breaks for the rich and rich corporations...which add up to a hell of a lot more in lost revenue. Hypocrisy seems boundless among the neocon GOP on this topic.
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Your post only works if the corporations are actually paying taxes. If we raise taxes on corporations, do you think they will leave their prices exactly the same and have a lower profit margin? Surely you are not that naive?
 
WinterBorn said:
LOL Ok, Miley Cyrus. But my point is the same. If we only discuss what is a "firestorm" in the media, and only discuss what the media says, we are wasting bandwidth.


The truth of the matter is the same, regardless of what the media says.
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actually, you should be proud of the fact you didn't know her name....
 
WinterBorn said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
It's been documented over the last 30 years when various administrations and/or Congress gave these tax deductions to super corporations like GE that people protested (unsuccessfully) and pointed to the people who were toadying for the corporate PAC that wanted these cuts.

List the administration or politician along with GE and I've got no problem with that. But in this time when the neocon GOP is wailing and railing about cutting "entitlements" and social services to save the economy, they fight like hell to keep the outrageous tax breaks for the rich and rich corporations...which add up to a hell of a lot more in lost revenue. Hypocrisy seems boundless among the neocon GOP on this topic.
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Your post only works if the corporations are actually paying taxes. If we raise taxes on corporations, do you think they will leave their prices exactly the same and have a lower profit margin? Surely you are not that naive?
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Surely you're not going to proudly parrot that lame old BS corporations use to defend their surreal tax breaks in leiu of their outrageous profits, are you? In the last 25 years, we've seen an increase of tax breaks and loopholes for corporations along with an increase in prices for the consumer across the board. So DESPITE getting richer without paying their fair or full share of taxes for the country's revenue, the corps STILL raised their prices....so your little condescending take above is nothing more than a piss in the wind.

Here's a reality check for you:

Tax cuts for the rich bad for small business

http://blogs.reuters.com/small-business/2010/12/14/tax-cuts-for-the-rich-bad-for-small-business/
 
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Taichiliberal said:
Surely you're not going to proudly parrot that lame old BS corporations use to defend their surreal tax breaks in leiu of their outrageous profits, are you? In the last 25 years, we've seen an increase of tax breaks and loopholes for corporations along with an increase in prices for the consumer across the board. So DESPITE getting richer without paying their fair or full share of taxes for the country's revenue, the corps STILL raised their prices....so your little condescending take above is nothing more than a piss in the wind.

Here's a reality check for you:

Tax cuts for the rich bad for small business

http://blogs.reuters.com/small-business/2010/12/14/tax-cuts-for-the-rich-bad-for-small-business/
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And there you have it folks....his he really naive....or....is he just stupid.....or maybe even just a partisan asshole......
I can't make up my mind so I'm going with all three.....

The teachers salary and benefits go up every year where he lives and damn if his school tax doesn't go up too...yet he makes no connection...

The price of those widgets he uses goes up and so did the taxes on the corporation that makes them....yet he makes no connection....

The price of all the food trucked in to his local market is rising and damn diesel fuel used by those semis is out of sight....yet the pinhead makes no connection....

Yip....a stupid, naive, partisan asshole for sure...
 
Taichiliberal said:
Surely you're not going to proudly parrot that lame old BS corporations use to defend their surreal tax breaks in leiu of their outrageous profits, are you? In the last 25 years, we've seen an increase of tax breaks and loopholes for corporations along with an increase in prices for the consumer across the board. So DESPITE getting richer without paying their fair or full share of taxes for the country's revenue, the corps STILL raised their prices....so your little condescending take above is nothing more than a piss in the wind.

Here's a reality check for you:

Tax cuts for the rich bad for small business

http://blogs.reuters.com/small-business/2010/12/14/tax-cuts-for-the-rich-bad-for-small-business/
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No offense, but a guy selling used records is hardly proof of much.


I am not saying that there should be more tax breaks for the rich. I am simply pointing out that taxing corporations is taxing their customers. It is simple common-sense.

And yes, we have seen steady price increases over the last 25 years. But I see nothing that says there is a greater profit margin over those same 25 years. In fact, the research I have seen suggests that the profit margins have remained relatively stable. The costs of everything has gone up. That means all of the expenses have gone up. When you have to spend more on advertising, utilities, transportation (big jump), health insurance & other employee benefits, office supplies, ect ect ect, the prices of teh products will go up too.
 
WinterBorn said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Surely you're not going to proudly parrot that lame old BS corporations use to defend their surreal tax breaks in leiu of their outrageous profits, are you? In the last 25 years, we've seen an increase of tax breaks and loopholes for corporations along with an increase in prices for the consumer across the board. So DESPITE getting richer without paying their fair or full share of taxes for the country's revenue, the corps STILL raised their prices....so your little condescending take above is nothing more than a piss in the wind.

Here's a reality check for you:

Tax cuts for the rich bad for small business

http://blogs.reuters.com/small-busin...mall-business/
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No offense, but a guy selling used records is hardly proof of much.

Whoa! So a man that runs a business and has employees doesn't rate with you because? This is what cracks me up about the BS of corporate apologists and their professed conservative ilk.......they blather on about the backbone of America is the businessman, and yet when a small businessman points out the flaws in the corporate dogma, he suddenly doesn't rate? Can you say, "hypocrits" boys and girls?

I am not saying that there should be more tax breaks for the rich. I am simply pointing out that taxing corporations is taxing their customers. It is simple common-sense.

And as I pointed out, that is NOT the case...as simple deductive reasoning based on recent history and facts have shown. What you believe and what is actually happening in the real world are two different things. The neocon driven GOP and it's followers can repeat that line until doomsday, but the consumer/businessman on the street will have a different tale to tell, as they are the recipient of the formentioned belief system.

And yes, we have seen steady price increases over the last 25 years. But I see nothing that says there is a greater profit margin over those same 25 years. In fact, the research I have seen suggests that the profit margins have remained relatively stable. The costs of everything has gone up. That means all of the expenses have gone up. When you have to spend more on advertising, utilities, transportation (big jump), health insurance & other employee benefits, office supplies, ect ect ect, the prices of teh products will go up too.
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Sorry WB, but what you see and what is going on are two different things. Observe and learn:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/26511-the-future-of-corporate-profits-the-e-in-the-p-e-equation


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n4_v21/ai_17833313/


Your litany of price increases does not change the FACT that you have had increases in corporate profits.....thanks in part to tax breaks, outsourcing, downsizing, etc., WHILE PRICES FOR THEIR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES INCREASES, AND WAGES ARE EITHER STAGNANT OR BEHIND THE COLA. So claiming that having corporations pay their fair share to increase the country's revenue would increase prices is just disingenuous at best.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Sorry WB, but what you see and what is going on are two different things. Observe and learn:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/26511-the-future-of-corporate-profits-the-e-in-the-p-e-equation


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n4_v21/ai_17833313/


Your litany of price increases does not change the FACT that you have had increases in corporate profits.....thanks in part to tax breaks, outsourcing, downsizing, etc., WHILE PRICES FOR THEIR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES INCREASES, AND WAGES ARE EITHER STAGNANT OR BEHIND THE COLA. So claiming that having corporations pay their fair share to increase the country's revenue would increase prices is just disingenuous at best.
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I didn't say it didn't rate. I said it isn't proof of anything. Also, the article you posted was aimed at personal income taxes. The discussion was corporate taxes. There is a difference.

The dollar amount of the profits has indeed increased. The profit margins have remained roughly the same.
 
turbo-libs crack me up. Outragious profits, that person should go to jail for that anti freedom statement.
 
WinterBorn said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Sorry WB, but what you see and what is going on are two different things. Observe and learn:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2651...e-p-e-equation


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_17833313/


Your litany of price increases does not change the FACT that you have had increases in corporate profits.....thanks in part to tax breaks, outsourcing, downsizing, etc., WHILE PRICES FOR THEIR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES INCREASES, AND WAGES ARE EITHER STAGNANT OR BEHIND THE COLA. So claiming that having corporations pay their fair share to increase the country's revenue would increase prices is just disingenuous at best.
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I didn't say it didn't rate. I said it isn't proof of anything. Also, the article you posted was aimed at personal income taxes. The discussion was corporate taxes. There is a difference.

Sorry WB, but you're trying to split a hair in order to avoid the FACT that your beliefs and assertions were logicly proven wrong. All the information I sourced IS PROOF....that you just refuse to acknowledge it's relevence is just insipid stubborness on your part, as the information I've linked to in my responses include discussion of corporate and small business and personal income. It's all related, don't you know!
The dollar amount of the profits has indeed increased. The profit margins have remained roughly the same.
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Wrong again, Winter:

Corporate Profit Margins to Hit 18-Year High

http://www.crossingwallstreet.com/archives/2011/03/corporate-profit-margins-to-hit-18-year-high.html
 
Taichiliberal said:
Which is exactly what I did to the little dope after exposing him for a neocon liar and a fool for the last time. Bravo's too dumb to catch on, whcih makes his obsession with me all the more pathetic. Save for seeing his blatherings in responses quoted by others, I can only empathize as you deal with his intellectually impotent Bravado, Chrisite.
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Got out.!!!...did you really put me on IA.....thats too too much....nothing says total defeat than hiding behind the IA function....do you want me to let you win one occasionally ?
All that bluster and then you admit you've been beaten on every issue in which you engage me.....:good4u:
 
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