Racial turn for abortion debate

cawacko said:
I'm pro-choice. That being said I can understand someone who is black and anti-abortion looking at the statistics and saying abortion is disproportionately affecting my community and I want to do something about it. To me there is nothing racist about that and while I believe abortion should be safe and legal I can't be mad at someone trying to promote people in their community having less abortions.

In the "white community" you probably wouldn't put a billboard like this up with a picture of the President (any President pre-Obama) because every President is white. It does not have the same effect. Instead we get those vans with pictures of f'd up fetuses on the sign of them that make you want to throw up. The symbolism of Obama in the black community is huge due to the office he has risen too. So for me I get where the people who created this billboard are coming from.
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I say when the message is worded in such a way that it offends the very people it's supposed to help, then the message failed.

Yeah, when I see those posters of fetuses (some of them being held by children), it hardens my resolve against the group.
 
christiefan915 said:
I say when the message is worded in such a way that it offends the very people it's supposed to help, then the message failed.

Yeah, when I see those posters of fetuses (some of them being held by children), it hardens my resolve against the group.
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Besides pro-choice groups who was offended?
 
Exactly! I don't see any pro-choice groups holding signs saying "Every 21 minutes our next possible serial killer is being aborted." They focus on choice.
 
christiefan915 said:
Say a black woman is in a car driving down the road and sees a sign saying "The most dangerous place for African Americans is in the womb", or "Black children are an endangered species." Do you really think it's going to make her pause and think "hmmm, better double-check my birth control because I don't want to have to abort the next Messiah?"

One of these billboards was erected in the SOHO section of NYC, and got so many protests it was taken down.

I think it's nonsense for this group to use such insensitive messages and think those messages are going to appeal to the people they're targeting. I would be offended if the billboards said the same thing about white or Hispanic babies.

If people are upset enough to speak out and/or demand the signs be taken down, it tells me the advertising failed. I'm sure ad agencies can help these groups figure out a much better way to promote their message, without being hateful and condescending to a particular group.
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The wording is an entirely different issue. You claimed it was racist, yet then said you would have been just as offended if the ads targeted white or hispanic women. Thus, it is the WAY the message was delivered that you don't like. It is not racist.
 
christiefan915 said:
Exactly! I don't see any pro-choice groups holding signs saying "Every 21 minutes our next possible serial killer is being aborted." They focus on choice.
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Pro-choice groups aren't going to like any ad that is anti-abortion or pro-life and vice versa so that's not a surprise.
 
cawacko said:
Besides pro-choice groups who was offended?
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It didn't say.

Life Always sparked much controversy in February with its billboard in the busy SoHo neighborhood depicting an African-American girl along with the message, “The most dangerous place for an African American is in the womb.”

Complaints, threats and a planned protest against the billboard caused it to be taken down. After the billboard was removed, supporter the Rev. Michel Faulkner of New York’s New Horizon Church responded, “Instead of challenging the design of the ad, we should ask why the message is true and how can we change the fact that the leading cause of death for African Americans is abortion.”
 
Superfreak said:
The wording is an entirely different issue. You claimed it was racist, yet then said you would have been just as offended if the ads targeted white or hispanic women. Thus, it is the WAY the message was delivered that you don't like. It is not racist.
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You yourself said there was a racial component. Where do you draw the line between racial and racist?

I don't like anything about it, the wording, the pictures or the targeting.
 
christiefan915 said:
It didn't say.

Life Always sparked much controversy in February with its billboard in the busy SoHo neighborhood depicting an African-American girl along with the message, “The most dangerous place for an African American is in the womb.”

Complaints, threats and a planned protest against the billboard caused it to be taken down. After the billboard was removed, supporter the Rev. Michel Faulkner of New York’s New Horizon Church responded, “Instead of challenging the design of the ad, we should ask why the message is true and how can we change the fact that the leading cause of death for African Americans is abortion.”
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Not sure why they would put the billboard in SoHo if they are trying to reach black folks. Would be curious to know the feedback from Englewood or that original neighborhood they targeted.
 
Superfreak said:
Yeah, they focus on choice so that they no longer have to focus on the LIFE.
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Quite the contrary. I would say many are thinking about the life a child would have. I doubt anyone thinks to themselves, "If I had a child it would have a great life but I'm going to abort anyway."
 
apple0154 said:
Quite the contrary. I would say many are thinking about the life a child would have. I doubt anyone thinks to themselves, "If I had a child it would have a great life but I'm going to abort anyway."
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These people don't care what happens after the birth.

You have yahoos like Bill Bennett and his infamous comment: "you wanted to reduce crime ... if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down."
 
christiefan915 said:
Exactly! I don't see any pro-choice groups holding signs saying "Every 21 minutes our next possible serial killer is being aborted." They focus on choice.
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That's a bit like a bank robber saying, "look! Now these bank deposit vaults are safe from all bank robbers for the next six months. Its a win for everyone!!"
 
christiefan915 said:
These people don't care what happens after the birth.
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Keep telling yourself that Christie. However, every once in a while, you should stop to consider whether that's the proper attitude to take as a Catholic. Or forgetting that, since its obviously not giving you pause, just think of it as proper behavior for a human being. Deflection doesn't take away from your own sins, it merely serves as a pointless reminder that everyone is flawed, and if you as a pro-choicer won't take my criticisms, then the only thing left for you is judgement.
 
christiefan915 said:
You yourself said there was a racial component. Where do you draw the line between racial and racist?

I don't like anything about it, the wording, the pictures or the targeting.
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Stating 'black women are five times more likely to have an abortion than a white woman and twice as likely as a hispanic woman' has a racial component. It is discussion abortion rates broken down by racial demographics. It is not racist to discuss issues like that.

I know you are pro-abortion and not pro-life, but step back a moment and pretend you were pro-life. Would you not target a segment of the population that has such a disparity from others???

If you were selling mini-vans.... would you target areas that have higher concentrations of soccer moms or areas with high levels of apartments for recent high school and college grads?
 
christiefan915 said:
Pro-choice people don't demand that women have abortions, whereas anti-choice people demand that they don't.
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The above is a perfect example of what I am saying. You want to make it about 'choice' rather than 'LIFE'.

There is NO question an abortion ends a life. NONE... If it didn't end a life, there would be no need for the abortion.
 
apple0154 said:
Quite the contrary. I would say many are thinking about the life a child would have. I doubt anyone thinks to themselves, "If I had a child it would have a great life but I'm going to abort anyway."
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Bullshit. That is simply a copout. They are thinking about THEMSELVES... not the child.

Put yourself in the childs place...... your choices are....

1) To be born into the world with the possibility your life will be extremely hard. You have to fight and scrape for everything you get. If you fight hard enough, you might make it to a life of comfort, but the odds are severely stacked against you

and

2) I kill you

Which of those options would you choose?

I encourage everyone here that is pro-abortion to answer that.
 
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