Trump produces his birth certificate

Rana said:
No wonder the USA is so fucked up, if they all use bankruptcy as business tools.
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If you say so. Most people misunderstand a business bankruptcy. It simply restructures the debt and forces them into a plan to pay it off (one that they submit to the bankruptcy court).

It is not the same as individual bankruptcy where it forgives debt, unless they file a specific form of bankruptcy but that also closes the business.
 
Damocles said:
You measured failure in money, I just applied the same standard. Success for a business is measured in earnings. Trump has run a successful business.
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Well, being old school, I see it differently. Bankruptcy use to be a sign of a business failure and businesses use to be disgraced by it...
 
Damocles said:
Trump uses bankruptcy as a business tool, like Disney, GM, and myriad other companies. The guy turned $400M into multiple billions. It is silly to say that he "failed" with that record. The reality is, the man is worth more than quadruple what his father left him, and that is using inflation decreased figures.
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Bankruptcy cheats other people out of their money, he filed twice! To me, this is disgraceful!
 
Rana said:
Well, being old school, I see it differently. Bankruptcy use to be a sign of a business failure and businesses use to be disgraced by it...
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Not in any time period that I have ever read about, not for businesses.

However, personal bankruptcy is also not a sign of "failure"... People who have declared bankruptcy in their lives include such names as:

Rembrandt
Abraham Lincoln
Mark Twain
Henry Heinz
Oscar Wilde
Milton Hershey
Walt Disney

Now, Trump never filed a personal bankruptcy, he simply used Chapter 11 laws to restructure one of his companies (twice, same company). The reality is many businesses have used those same laws for the same reason and are still considered successful businesses, one of the more famous ones would be Chrysler (more than once) and GM as well as Lehman Brothers, et al... Now the "failure" you are talking about is Chapter 7, not Chapter 11. A company only files Chapter 7 Bankruptcy if it is entirely destitute, in other words when it has failed, Chapter 7 oversees the dissolution of a company and the distribution of its assets to the debtors.
 
Damocles said:
Not in any time period that I have ever read about, not for businesses.

However, personal bankruptcy is also not a sign of "failure"... People who have declared bankruptcy in their lives include such names as:

Rembrandt
Abraham Lincoln
Mark Twain
Henry Heinz
Oscar Wilde
Milton Hershey
Walt Disney

Now, Trump never filed a personal bankruptcy, he simply used Chapter 11 laws to restructure one of his companies (twice, same company). The reality is many businesses have used those same laws for the same reason and are still considered successful businesses, one of the more famous ones would be Chrysler (more than once) and GM as well as Lehman Brothers, et al... Now the "failure" you are talking about is Chapter 7, not Chapter 11. A company only files Chapter 7 Bankruptcy if it is entirely destitute, in other words when it has failed, Chapter 7 oversees the dissolution of a company and the distribution of its assets to the debtors.
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Well, you go ahead and think as you do, my mother taught me it was stealing, so those very important people stole from others. Any time there is forgiveness of debt or debt reduction, you are taking money from someone else.
 
Rana said:
Well, being old school, I see it differently. Bankruptcy use to be a sign of a business failure and businesses use to be disgraced by it...
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Trump protects himself but what about the rest? The employees are in danger of losing their jobs, suppliers get pennies on the dollar if they're lucky and stockholders get the shaft. I've seen bankruptcies close up. The companies get dismembered and picked apart like turkeys, upper management and the lawyers continue to rake in the bucks, and the little people take the brunt of it.

I'm with you on this, a well-run company wouldn't have to resort to bankruptcy but if it does, it shouldn't happen more than once.
 
christiefan915 said:
Trump protects himself but what about the rest? The employees are in danger of losing their jobs, suppliers get pennies on the dollar if they're lucky and stockholders get the shaft. I've seen bankruptcies close up. The companies get dismembered and picked apart like turkeys, upper management and the lawyers continue to rake in the bucks, and the little people take the brunt of it.

I'm with you on this, a well-run company wouldn't have to resort to bankruptcy but if it does, it shouldn't happen more than once.
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Again, somebody who misunderstands the difference between Chapter 7 and Chapter 11.
 
Damocles said:
Trump uses bankruptcy as a business tool, like Disney, GM, and myriad other companies. The guy turned $400M into multiple billions. It is silly to say that he "failed" with that record. The reality is, the man is worth more than quadruple what his father left him, and that is using inflation decreased figures.
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Not only that, but he has gone from being rich to being broke, back to being rich again. Someone asked him if it was tougher the second time he became rich, and he said.. no, it was actually easier, because he knew he could do it. Following his famous bankruptcy in the '90s, he was walking back to his office with his lawyer, and they passed a homeless bum on the street with a sign, Trump turned to his lawyer and said, that man is now worth more than I am. It's one thing to be born into wealth and never have to worry about becoming rich, but in Trump's case, he was born wealthy, lost his fortune, and regained it again. He is a self-made man, everything he has is a result of his own efforts, and he is brilliant when it comes to business and finance.

The more I think about it, the more I kinda think I could dig a Trump presidency. When the pinheads like Rana start whining about his hair, or his showmanship, or his unconventional ways.... we just say, yeah, I know, it's pretty damn cool, huh? I mean, they are going to hate whoever we pick, might as well be Trump, right?
 
I hope you pick P.T. Trump, he has much less a chance as anyone else.

BTW, if you pick Ambassassador John Huntsman, I wont hate it.
 
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