Ohio SB#5

Superfreak said:
Let him be. Mott wishes to pretend that the workers in WI and Ohio will suddenly become 'slaves' with 'no rights' blah blah blah.... all the while ignoring the fact that other states ALREADY have such laws in place and their workers are neither slaves nor without rights.
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Yea and they also have a lower standard of living then they do in the NE States and the Great Lakes region.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Good lord, how many times does that lame argument have to be eviscerated? Your premise, that the tax payers are not represented in negotiation is an utterly wrong premise. If you think Democrats have been push overs for unions in contract negotiations, then you simply don't know jack shit about this topic cause I can assure you they have not been.
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We will continue to go over it until you grasp the fact that it is YOU that has no idea what you are talking about. To pretend the public is being represented fairly in negotiations with public unions is ridiculous. Again... and do try to answer it this time...

WHERE does the money come from when a public worker gets increased benefits or wages?

Then answer.... Do you think that was conveyed to the public in those surveys you love to quote?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I love saying "I told you so" but it looks like Ohio SB#5 will probably die in the house as it has become a toxic issue for Republicans.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/03/24/in-ohio-sb-5-stalled-as-republicans-want-to-weaken-the-bill/

I don't think they will try to change the bill so that Firemen and Policemen are exempted because then it becomes blatantly about union busting and not balancing the state budget. So that wouldn't fly. I think that it's probably going to die in the house unless they remove the provisions affecting unions and collective bargaining. In which case the Bill has little if anything to offer. I don't think it will make it out of the house. To many Republicans are scared about their political survival.
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Is this the same legislation that passed or is this something different?

Ohio Legislature passes collective bargain limits

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/03/29/state/n065737D68.DTL&tsp=1
 
Poor mott indeed, I'm going out on a limb and saying he hasn't accumulated a shit load of investments.
The democrats couldn't be closer to the unions if dems were on their knees cupping union balls.
GM bondholders were assraped by the dems for unions. That is the most uncapitalist action I've seen in 25 years by the socialist poser democrats.
 
cawacko said:
Is this the same legislation that passed or is this something different?

Ohio Legislature passes collective bargain limits

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/03/29/state/n065737D68.DTL&tsp=1
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That's the one and I'm mildly surprized that it passed even with a partisan vote with out any major revisions. It's now possible that this could go up for referendum in November but more than likely it will happen in 2012.......hehehehehe.....I can see the political add now of a Fireman running out of a burning building holding a baby in his arms and the text will read "Governor Kasich didn't want him to have the safety equipment to do this."
 
Superfreak said:
We will continue to go over it until you grasp the fact that it is YOU that has no idea what you are talking about. To pretend the public is being represented fairly in negotiations with public unions is ridiculous. Again... and do try to answer it this time...

WHERE does the money come from when a public worker gets increased benefits or wages?

Then answer.... Do you think that was conveyed to the public in those surveys you love to quote?
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and well go over it again and again and again until someone even as simple minded as you (if that's humanly possible) can understand it. The people are represented in those negotiations. What you are advocating is a one way street for management to do what ever the hell they want and fuck the people who work for them.
 
Topspin said:
Poor mott indeed, I'm going out on a limb and saying he hasn't accumulated a shit load of investments.
The democrats couldn't be closer to the unions if dems were on their knees cupping union balls.
GM bondholders were assraped by the dems for unions. That is the most uncapitalist action I've seen in 25 years by the socialist poser democrats.
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Oh please, you think people are going to just bend over and kiss your and other businesmen asses cause you want to be petty tyrants? That may happen down south cause of your retrograde educational system leaves to many rednecks out in the dark but it aint happening up here. I can assure you that. You're going to see a huge shift in the pendulum swing in Ohio. Not only will this bill fail to pass a referendum my guess is Repubs will lose the State assembly and possibly even the Senate.
 
I know the fireman I work with are royally pissed. Most of them are ex military and very conservative. I've heard quite a few of them say they'd never vote for another Republican ever again.
 
we shall see mott my friend, I think economics is the biggest stumbling block for dems. One of the Dakotas, Ohio and indiana are following Wisconsin's lead. Surely in these tough times many will follow.
 
Topspin said:
we shall see mott my friend, I think economics is the biggest stumbling block for dems. One of the Dakotas, Ohio and indiana are following Wisconsin's lead. Surely in these tough times many will follow.
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I dont' think so. I think it's over reach by Republican governors who are aiming for a political pay back. Time will tell but I have a sneaky hunch your going to see the pendulum swing the other way in those States in 2012 (well ok.....you may have me on South Dakota).
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Oh please, you think people are going to just bend over and kiss your and other businesmen asses cause you want to be petty tyrants? That may happen down south cause of your retrograde educational system leaves to many rednecks out in the dark but it aint happening up here. I can assure you that. You're going to see a huge shift in the pendulum swing in Ohio. Not only will this bill fail to pass a referendum my guess is Repubs will lose the State assembly and possibly even the Senate.
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You may be 100% correct. 18 months (until the next election, baring a recall vote) is a long time in politics though and feelings and emotions can change.
 
cawacko said:
You may be 100% correct. 18 months (until the next election, baring a recall vote) is a long time in politics though and feelings and emotions can change.
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That's true but I have been hearing back from a lot of public workers who are ex military and feel betrayed by Republicans as many of them are conservative and vote Republican. These are not independant voters were talking about but rock solid Republicans.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
and well go over it again and again and again until someone even as simple minded as you (if that's humanly possible) can understand it. The people are represented in those negotiations. What you are advocating is a one way street for management to do what ever the hell they want and fuck the people who work for them.
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Nice strawman attempt. I can't help but notice you still haven't supplied us with a link showing the standard of living is lower in states that restrict public union bargaining. Why is that Mott?

Also... the people are NOT represented when the public unions are 'bargaining' with people they help put in office and can threaten to cut off from future donations. Under the new WI law, the public unions still have a right to bargain... it is just done through a referendum rather than a group of paid for politicians. A referendum is when the CITIZENS actually get a VOICE.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's the one and I'm mildly surprized that it passed even with a partisan vote with out any major revisions. It's now possible that this could go up for referendum in November but more than likely it will happen in 2012.......hehehehehe.....I can see the political add now of a Fireman running out of a burning building holding a baby in his arms and the text will read "Governor Kasich didn't want him to have the safety equipment to do this."
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So.... are you still saying 'told you so'? Moron.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I know the fireman I work with are royally pissed. Most of them are ex military and very conservative. I've heard quite a few of them say they'd never vote for another Republican ever again.
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yeah... you know all these unions guys who just so happen to vote Rep all the time.... blah blah blah... Did you tell them you are a racist?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's true but I have been hearing back from a lot of public workers who are ex military and feel betrayed by Republicans as many of them are conservative and vote Republican. These are not independant voters were talking about but rock solid Republicans.
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Will be interesting to see how the next election turns out then or more specifically how your buddies end up voting.
 
Superfreak said:
yeah... you know all these unions guys who just so happen to vote Rep all the time.... blah blah blah... Did you tell them you are a racist?
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You mean, they USE to vote Republican, but I don't think that will be the case next elections. ;)
 
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