Imagine No Religion...

Jarod said:
Here is another fallacy in Dixie's argument...

I belong to and subscribe to no religion, yet even if it were legal I would not murder anyone, I follow my own code that is stricter than the law and I give a lot to charity!
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There are no fallacies in my argument, and you haven't shown one. Just because you practice a spiritual morality, doesn't mean it's not spiritual morality. If I drink wine and eat a cracker, it doesn't nullify the meaning or purpose of the Eucharist. If an Atheist says a prayer, it doesn't make prayer a non-religious practice.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Joking aside. Pack animals do exhibit forms of cooperation and morality. We reject your theocracy.
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No, animals do not exhibit human morality. They just fucking don't! You can yammer on and on for months or years, and it will be no more true then than it is now. To any other species, the priorities are, self-preservation, survival of the species, and protection of territory. Morality NEVER overrides those three priorities, except with humans practicing human morality. Very often, humans have sacrificed their lives for the sake of morality... this NEVER happens in the rest of the animal world.
 
Dixie said:
No, animals do not exhibit human morality. They just fucking don't! You can yammer on and on for months or years, and it will be no more true then than it is now. To any other species, the priorities are, self-preservation, survival of the species, and protection of territory. Morality NEVER overrides those three priorities, except with humans practicing human morality. Very often, humans have sacrificed their lives for the sake of morality... this NEVER happens in the rest of the animal world.
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Dixie, what asshat said was "Pack animals do exhibit forms of cooperation and morality.". He did not say it was human morality.

There have been pack animals that sacrifice themselves for the pack, or another member of the pack. There are numerous examples of this sort of behavior.
 
WinterBorn said:
Dixie, what asshat said was "Pack animals do exhibit forms of cooperation and morality.". He did not say it was human morality.

There have been pack animals that sacrifice themselves for the pack, or another member of the pack. There are numerous examples of this sort of behavior.
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1. Self-preservation... 2. Survival of the species... 3. Protection of territory. Those are the priorities for any animal in the wild. No examples exist of animals sacrificing themselves in the name of morality or the common good. Animals have no concept of right and wrong behavior as humans do. Their behavior is totally dictated by the three priorities listed. Human morality is a special attribute only found in our species... like I said, put it in the box with cognitive thought and spirituality... it's part of what makes us unique as a species. There is not a coincidence here, the aspects of human morality are born from spiritual belief, which is born from cognitive thought, or visa versa, depending on opinions. Pack animals may cooperate, they may even sacrifice themselves at times, but it is always centered around the three priorities above, not morality or moral justifications.
 
Jarod said:
You say Morality cannot exist without Religien, you are pittafully wrong.
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you realize of course that unbelievers merely "borrow" the morality they learned from believers a thousand years ago.....moral standards used to be quite different.....consider the moral standards of ancient Greece...... of the Picts, the Huns, the Mayans and Aztecs, the Mongol horde....

when did "thou shall not kill" become the norm?.....
 
Dixie said:
Human morality would not exist if not for human spirituality.
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Maybe, but it WOULD exist without Religen, in fact I am willing to say it would be stronger and better morality if Religen did not exist.
 
Dixie said:
1. Self-preservation... 2. Survival of the species... 3. Protection of territory. Those are the priorities for any animal in the wild. No examples exist of animals sacrificing themselves in the name of morality or the common good. Animals have no concept of right and wrong behavior as humans do. Their behavior is totally dictated by the three priorities listed. Human morality is a special attribute only found in our species... like I said, put it in the box with cognitive thought and spirituality... it's part of what makes us unique as a species. There is not a coincidence here, the aspects of human morality are born from spiritual belief, which is born from cognitive thought, or visa versa, depending on opinions. Pack animals may cooperate, they may even sacrifice themselves at times, but it is always centered around the three priorities above, not morality or moral justifications.
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What human morality has us sacrificing for the common good?
 
Dixie said:
Well, first of all, you have no evidence to suggest that not killing people came from anything other than human spiritual beliefs. Other animals kill each other all the time, they have absolutely no guilt for doing so, no remorse, they feel no sympathy for their victims, and it is known as the circle of life or natural selection. This is how the other animals on Earth behave, except for us. Curious, we can add that to the box of uniqueness, with Religion, Spirituality, and cognitive thought. You try to point to Atheists and others who have adopted a spiritually-based morality, and claim that means it's not a spiritually-based morality. But this is a point you have failed to prove, and can't prove. You are denying the obvious in favor of the ridiculous and absurd, and closing your mind to any possibility you may be wrong. That is sheer intolerance on display.
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Dixie, you are talking crap.
 
Jarhead said:
Maybe, but it WOULD exist without Religen, in fact I am willing to say it would be stronger and better morality if Religen did not exist.
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There would be no morality because if religion didn't exist, spirituality wouldn't exist. It's like saying people would be more intelligent if there were no art. If there were no art, it would mean that man had no imagination, and without imagination, would have no intelligence. Now Jarhead, you can "HATE" religion as much as you want, I can't defend all religious beliefs, some of them are pretty bad, but when you step over the line and make an ignorant statement like this, someone needs to pull you back and make you think about what you're saying.
 
WinterBorn said:
What human morality has us sacrificing for the common good?
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What kind of idiotic question is that? Have you not thought about it? I can think of numerous things right off the top of my head, where humans make great sacrifice for morality and the common good. This is such a nonsensical question, I am going to let you think about it a while, and not give you any examples. Let's see if you can maybe think of a few?
 
Dixie said:
Well it's your job to show me where I am talking crap. You've failed to do your job, so I win! ...Hooray Me!
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I don't care if you accept what I say or not. You are talking crap. My 'job' has nothing to do with you or yours, so it is unlikely that I have failed in it.
 
Spirituality would not exist without Religen? Are you serious? You are such a fool.
 
Jarhead said:
Spirituality would not exist without Religen? Are you serious? You are such a fool.
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I didn't say that. Spirituality exists, regardless of Religion or anything else. Religion wouldn't and couldn't exist without Spirituality. If there were no Spirituality, Religion could not exist. You pontificated on the notion of no Religion, but it exists as a result or byproduct of Spirituality, for Religion to not exist, there would have to be no Spirituality. So you are pontificating the illogical.... something you seem very familiar with!
 
Lowaicue said:
I don't care if you accept what I say or not. You are talking crap. My 'job' has nothing to do with you or yours, so it is unlikely that I have failed in it.
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This is a political forum. People debate issues and opinions here. I stated my issue and opinion, and you merely stated I was "talking crap." It is your responsibility as the other party in the debate, to show WHY you think I am "talking crap" but you failed to do that. So your "job" as far as this political forum goes, is not complete, you have failed at it. Being that you have failed, and I haven't, it means I have won and you have lost. But it's okay, you are accustomed to being a loser anyway, so it's all good. :D
 
Dixie said:
I didn't say that. Spirituality exists, regardless of Religion or anything else. Religion wouldn't and couldn't exist without Spirituality. If there were no Spirituality, Religion could not exist. You pontificated on the notion of no Religion, but it exists as a result or byproduct of Spirituality, for Religion to not exist, there would have to be no Spirituality. So you are pontificating the illogical.... something you seem very familiar with!
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Quote from above....

"if religion didn't exist, spirituality wouldn't exist."
 
There could be spirituality without Religion, there could not be Religion without Spirituality. You are not understanding that a converse is not always true.

You are not understand basic reasoning...
 
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