Public Union Reality

[Phantasmal]

Council President Jane Brunner disagreed, stressing that compromising public safety would detract business from the city -- which would in turn decrease sales tax revenue.

I guess if you want business to come to your city, you have to pay for protection, or don't.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

No, we've heard that about 2/3 rd of Americans are pissed off that right wing nuts are attempting to legislate our rights away. It aint going to work. Ya'll are on the wrong side of history. Budgets can be balanced with out taking away the rights of working people and paying for short falls on their backs. We need to stop corporate well fare and this corruption of giving irresponsible tax cuts at times of both fiscal crises and historically low tax rates. I think the fucking hypocrisy of John Kasich to give his incoming executive staff huge pay raises on the tax payers dime while giving 15% pay cuts to public service workers while also legislating away their rights is indicitive of what this is all about. You're either one of the good ole boys (the talent) and worthy of a decent standard of living of, in the right wings eyes, or you're a parasite.

Looks to me like it's the other way around. What the fuck have these guys at the top done to earn a pay raise other then to tank our economy and put our government hopelessly into debt?

They get a pay raise but teachers, policemen, firefighters, EMT's, etc get the shaft. Yea that's fair.

I've never been a partisan voter before and I've voted for faaaaar more Republicans then Democrats but in the last 10 years Republicans have gone fucking insane. That's all about to change. I couldn't live with my conscience now if I voted for a Republican. If Dems weren't such pussies I'd be well on my way to being a partisan.

again with your ignorance.....

As you are well aware, it is all in how you ask the question in those polls.

Two examples:

1) Do you support public unions right to collective bargaining on wages and benefits?

2) Do you support public unions right to collective bargaining on wages and benefits knowing that any increase they win from politicians is paid for with either higher taxes or cuts in other government programs?

One is generic, the other provides more detail to inform the responder.... do you think the second would have generated 60% affirmative?

 

[cawacko]

Council President Jane Brunner disagreed, stressing that compromising public safety would detract business from the city -- which would in turn decrease sales tax revenue.

I guess if you want business to come to your city, you have to pay for protection, or don't.

Who the hell is Jane Brunner? So because Oakland can't handle its city budget and because it gave way to generous benefits to police and firefighters the residents of the City are just suppose to say 'thank you may I have another'?

That exact mindset is why Oakland is one of the worse run cities in the country with close to the worst public schools in America and darn close to going bankrupt like neighboring Vallejo did several years back.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I was laid off because the real estate market went to hell after the economy tanked and banks stopped lending and buyers stopped buying. There was no need to carry a large West Coast acquistion team when you aren't acquiring anything. Not sure if we made a profit or not.

For example, APFC was just one of clients that quit buying.

I would imagine Calpers stopped as well?

 

[cawacko]

I would imagine Calpers stopped as well?

Yes I believe so. Actually our largest client was CalStrs and yeah they pretty much stopped. The only money we had was a new private REIT that went after single credit tenant long termed lease properties. But there wasn't enough business with them to keep multiple acquisition directors and a handfull of analysts. They basically cleaned house.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yes I believe so. Actually our largest client was CalStrs and yeah they pretty much stopped. The only money we had was a new private REIT that went after single credit tenant long termed lease properties. But there wasn't enough business with them to keep multiple acquisition directors and a handfull of analysts. They basically cleaned house.

yeah.... not a pleasant time for com real estate

 

[Phantasmal]

Who the hell is Jane Brunner? So because Oakland can't handle its city budget and because it gave way to generous benefits to police and firefighters the residents of the City are just suppose to say 'thank you may I have another'?

That exact mindset is why Oakland is one of the worse run cities in the country with close to the worst public schools in America and darn close to going bankrupt like neighboring Vallejo did several years back.

I'll ask again, Cawacko, how much would they have to pay you to be a police person in Oakland? Would you do it for $70,000 a year? It could be a job opportunity for you, go in tell them you will work for lower wages and benefits, I bet they would hire a fine guy like you in a New York second!

Would you be a police person in Oakland?

Jane Brunner is part of the government in Oakland.

 

[Liberty]

If you review the history of the USA, the union are what helped make it strong. The busting of the unions will have the trickle down affect that the GOP are so very fond of! The myth that the unions are sucking you dry is one that has been created by the GOP to bring about the union busting cheap labor that they get their rocks off over! The doofus from Wisconsin spilled his guts on Fox news.

Union busting has been the wet dream of the GOP since they became the backbone of the Democratic donors.

They have been fighting hard to bring this about since Reagan.

They have now succeeded into making you think teachers, fire and police are your enemies that are porking out at the tax payer trough, meanwhile corporations are growing fatter behind your backs at the same trough!

I don't think fire, police, and teachers are my enemies. And I don't associate myself with the GOP, or republicans. I see them as the same party. I think the way I do because of facts.

I'm a tax payer, and middle class at that. If there's such a thing. And I'm telling my representatives to lower my taxes (amoung other things) and to cut out the waist, or eliminate it.

I'm also telling them that I think it's a crime that "my tax money" ends up into the hands of these marxist union bosses that is then given to anti-libertarian, big government minded marxist politicians to buy them (just like a whore) to make life very much harder on me and my family through legislation. Very hard!

They take away the money I would use for my healthcare, my childs education, and my retirement. People like me have had it, and are literally in a pitched battle. Public unions are just one of many things that are big huge problems in this country, and if we have to get rid of public unions to cut my taxes, then tough. Do it!

There's still more peolpe like me then there is public union workers. If the public union worker doesn't like what's going on, then they need to get another job.

How dare the public union worker say "they have an inherent right to my money", and that their right trumps my rights as a tax payer. My property rights. Screw them.

They're not gaining sympathy from people like me. Not at all.

 

[Phantasmal]

I don't think fire, police, and teachers are my enemies. And I don't associate myself with the GOP, or republicans. I see them as the same party. I think the way I do because of facts.

I'm a tax payer, and middle class at that. If there's such a thing. And I'm telling my representatives to lower my taxes (amoung other things) and to cut out the waist, or eliminate it.

I'm also telling them that I think it's a crime that "my tax money" ends up into the hands of these marxist union bosses that is then given to anti-libertarian, big government minded marxist politicians to buy them (just like a whore) to make life very much harder on me and my family through legislation. Very hard!

They take away the money I would use for my healthcare, my childs education, and my retirement. People like me have had it, and are literally in a pitched battle. Public unions are just one of many things that are big huge problems in this country, and if we have to get rid of public unions to cut my taxes, then tough. Do it!

There's still more peolpe like me then there is public union workers. If the public union worker doesn't like what's going on, then they need to get another job.

How dare the public union worker say "they have an inherent right to my money", and that their right trumps my rights as a tax payer. My property rights. Screw them.

They're not gaining sympathy from people like me. Not at all.

Well, Liberty, if you don't want to pay people a decent working wage for their labor, you aren't exactly their friend.

You want people to work for less because they work for the public.

That is nothing less than selfish.

Do you know what your life would be like without these hard working people?

They have a right to be paid a decent wage.

I am sorry for expect people to work for less than you would pay yourself in the same job, and don't kid us, if you were in these lines of work, you would not have this same attitude.

 

[zappasguitar]

Well, Liberty, if you don't want to pay people a decent working wage for their labor, you aren't exactly their friend.

You want people to work for less because they work for the public.

That is nothing less than selfish.

Do you know what your life would be like without these hard working people?

They have a right to be paid a decent wage.

I am sorry for expect people to work for less than you would pay yourself in the same job, and don't kid us, if you were in these lines of work, you would not have this same attitude.

Isn't it funny Rana?

Over and over we hear form sanctimonious Righties how Liberals "feel" and we don't "think" about problems, we just let our emotions guide us.

But above we see emotions guiding conservative Republicans and supposed Libertarians.

The only difference is Liberals let empathic emotions like CONCERN and SYMPATHY guide our responses...conservatives have shown time and again they are guided solely by JEALOUSY and ANGER.

 

[cawacko]

I'll ask again, Cawacko, how much would they have to pay you to be a police person in Oakland? Would you do it for $70,000 a year? It could be a job opportunity for you, go in tell them you will work for lower wages and benefits, I bet they would hire a fine guy like you in a New York second!

Would you be a police person in Oakland?

Jane Brunner is part of the government in Oakland.

I wouldn't be a police officer period unless you paid me $500k + and then I'd think about it. I'm not small, I'm 6 ft 205 pounds I'm just not into fighting and violence (by that i mean commiting violence myself or being a part of it) so being an officer has zero appeal to me.

As far as Oakland goes like a lot of cities it's not all bad. There are nice neighborhoods in Oakland so not every police beat would be the same.

Cities have budgets and have to live within those means. As Chip Johnson's article showed Oakland isn't able to do that and these salaries and benefits are harming the City financially (along with the ineptitude of the City government).

As far as Jane Brunner is concerned by definition she is a major part of the problem in Oakland. Oakland is one of the worst run cities in America. I have high school classmates/friends who worked for Jerry Brown while he was Mayor who shared some of the horror stories they incurred dealing with the City government/bureacracy. Part of me doesn't care anymore because I don't live there and it is no longer my problem but part of me does care because I did live there and and my sister and three nieces and nephews live there now.

Oakland needs cops. But Oakland can't just pay amounts it can't afford to the detriment of the rest of the City.

 

[cawacko]

Isn't it funny Rana?

Over and over we hear form sanctimonious Righties how Liberals "feel" and we don't "think" about problems, we just let our emotions guide us.

But above we see emotions guiding conservative Republicans and supposed Libertarians.

The only difference is Liberals let empathic emotions like CONCERN and SYMPATHY guide our responses...conservatives have shown time and again they are guided solely by JEALOUSY and ANGER.

What do you call liberal responses to rich people? Seems like a lot of jealousy and anger to me.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Well, Liberty, if you don't want to pay people a decent working wage for their labor, you aren't exactly their friend.

The ignorance flows forth from you yet again. They ARE paid a decent wage, the CAN continue getting increases based on COLA. They can get raises beyond COLA via referendum.

You want people to work for less because they work for the public.

Please show us where Liberty said that.... otherwise that is a pathetic straw man.

That is nothing less than selfish.

or completely fabricated bullshit from you.

Do you know what your life would be like without these hard working people?

LMAO.... which has NOTHING to do with this. No one is suggesting we fire them or get rid of them in any way.

They have a right to be paid a decent wage.

And they are paid a decent wage.

I am sorry for expect people to work for less than you would pay yourself in the same job, and don't kid us, if you were in these lines of work, you would not have this same attitude.

Again, more emotional claptrap from you. You simply project your straw man on to everyone who disagrees with your position.

 

[Phantasmal]

Isn't it funny Rana?

Over and over we hear form sanctimonious Righties how Liberals "feel" and we don't "think" about problems, we just let our emotions guide us.

But above we see emotions guiding conservative Republicans and supposed Libertarians.

The only difference is Liberals let empathic emotions like CONCERN and SYMPATHY guide our responses...conservatives have shown time and again they are guided solely by JEALOUSY and ANGER.

I just wonder what they think their lives would be like without these people?

What I keep asking them, is would you do the job for the wages they want to pay these people?

Would you be a police person in Oakland for less than $70,000? Would you teach in the Madison school district for less than $50,000?

Would the governor work for $100,000? Is he going to turn down his retirement with the state? How much does he get after only four years of service? How much do they pay their politicians.

Scott Walker's smooth move has caused a lot of teacher to take retirement now, instead of later! What is that going to do to the state?

 

[Liberty]

Well, Liberty, if you don't want to pay people a decent working wage for their labor, you aren't exactly their friend.

You want people to work for less because they work for the public.

That is nothing less than selfish.

Do you know what your life would be like without these hard working people?

They have a right to be paid a decent wage.

I am sorry for expect people to work for less than you would pay yourself in the same job, and don't kid us, if you were in these lines of work, you would not have this same attitude.

You haven't heard anything I've said.

Should I give up my home to give them this decent working wage?

 

[Liberty]

Isn't it funny Rana?

Over and over we hear form sanctimonious Righties how Liberals "feel" and we don't "think" about problems, we just let our emotions guide us.

But above we see emotions guiding conservative Republicans and supposed Libertarians.

The only difference is Liberals let empathic emotions like CONCERN and SYMPATHY guide our responses...conservatives have shown time and again they are guided solely by JEALOUSY and ANGER.

I don't think jealousy applies.

And I'm socially liberal, and fiscally conservative.

Which means I'm not a conservative in the sense that you seem to imply.

 

[Liberty]

I just wonder what they think their lives would be like without these people?

What I keep asking them, is would you do the job for the wages they want to pay these people?

Would you be a police person in Oakland for less than $70,000? Would you teach in the Madison school district for less than $50,000?

Would the governor work for $100,000? Is he going to turn down his retirement with the state? How much does he get after only four years of service? How much do they pay their politicians.

Scott Walker's smooth move has caused a lot of teacher to take retirement now, instead of later! What is that going to do to the state?

Oh brother,,,, or should I say sister

 

[Liberty]

The ignorance flows forth from you yet again. They ARE paid a decent wage, the CAN continue getting increases based on COLA. They can get raises beyond COLA via referendum.



Please show us where Liberty said that.... otherwise that is a pathetic straw man.



or completely fabricated bullshit from you.



LMAO.... which has NOTHING to do with this. No one is suggesting we fire them or get rid of them in any way.



And they are paid a decent wage.



Again, more emotional claptrap from you. You simply project your straw man on to everyone who disagrees with your position.

Great post!

Thanks for saving me the effort.

 

[Canceled1]

Oh brother,,,, or should I say sister

Here.... Let me help you...

 

[Phantasmal]

The elections of 2012 will reflect the truth, unless the elections are rigged. I have a feeling that the "tax payer" will be more motivated. Their numbers are much greater than the union numbers.

That being said, trusting the republican party is like trusting a drunk with (your) alcohol.




One things for sure, tax payers are pissed off.

Big time.

Yes, this tax payer is mad, but it is at the politicians who pander to the likes of the Soros and the Kock! I am not mad at the workers, I support the workers.

I am angry at the politicians and the corporations who are riding to their success on the backs of the middle class and poor.