Another sanctimonious Christian who tells others how to live, busted being a pervert

The majority, like the contributors to WikiIslam, or Craig Winn? Argumentum ad populum.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know they're right?

No, the majority as in several canonical Hadith collections, including Sahih al-Bukhari and Sunan Abu Dawood, which you would know if you had examined the sources cited on WikiIslam, and if you had a shred of intellectual honesty...
 
"...you talk about maineman more than anyone else on the board lately..."

"...i can only assume by your repeated INSULT towards me regarding maineman's stalking that you approve of his stalkiing"...



everything i said in that post is 100% truth.



"what allegations (plural) are you asking me to back up? i always provide proof of what i claim..."


Alrightie...

SHOW PROOF that "I talk about maineman more than anyone else on the board lately"

aaaaaand

SHOW PROOF that "I approve" of mm's stalking...

You made the allegation and later claimed it was "100% truth"

So back it up.
 
No, the majority as in several canonical Hadith collections, including Sahih al-Bukhari and Sunan Abu Dawood, which you would know if you had examined the sources cited on WikiIslam, and if you had a shred of intellectual honesty...

ouch!

christie...these are some of the sources i was referring to.

there are authentic hadith that have her age at nine, authentic to the sunni muslim, which make up over 90% of muslims. as volt said....check sources, the hadiths, and muslims will tell you which ones they accept, are your best sources. the six years old reference are from hadiths that have been rejected as not authentic.
 
Alrightie...

SHOW PROOF that "I talk about maineman more than anyone else on the board lately"

aaaaaand

SHOW PROOF that "I approve" of mm's stalking...

You made the allegation and later claimed it was "100% truth"

So back it up.

1. its important to note zappa does not deny he has been informed of maineman's actual stalking and threats by myself and the mods. <-- that is very important, as it lends strong evidence to my statement that zappa "must" approve of maineman's stalking as zappa continually mocks me and insults me regarding maineman's actual stalking. it is my belief that zappa absolutely approves of MM's stalking, if he didn't, why would he mock me about any comments i have made regarding the stalking and threats? zappa said i made 5 or 6 threads about maineman's stalking. that is a lie. he will not, nor can he ever produce those threads.

2. zappa cannot find anyone else who talks about maineman more than he does. when he fails with me, he brings up maineman. as if maineman is this great hero of zappa. as if maineman is the holy poster and yurt is so evil.

3. the larger question is --> why does zappa repeatedly bring up maineman to me?

^ that is the bottom line.
 
Christie,

I will admit that it is possible Aisha was not nine-years-old when her marriage to Muhammad was consummated. On the contrary, it is quite possible that she was only eight years of age, as the Islamic lunar year is 10 - 12 days shorter than the Gregorian calendar. :palm:

The mental gymnastics you've resorted to in defending Muhammad are astounding. Did you even bother examining the sources cited on WikiIslam? Clearly not, because had you done so, you would realize that they are Islamic sources. :palm: The question is, what interest do you have in defending Muhammad?

:rolleyes: Since you asked so nicely...

I started to learn about Islam after 9/11. There were a lot of anti-Muslim emails, and comments on message boards that were highly critical so I began to check them out. Roughly 90% were half-truths or outright lies. Often the practices under fire were cultural and pre-dated Muhammad. Patriarchal societies. Second-class status of women. Stoning. Religious persecution. Everything that critics attribute to Islam existed as part of the ME culture. Every practice we now hate could be found in all the holy books, Bible, Torah and Qur'an. It's outright dishonest to attribute these facts to Muslims only.

I learned that there was no low critics wouldn't stoop to in order to slander the religion, and my opinion is that it's because of 9/11. Instead of rightfully hating terrorism, people displaced their hatred onto the religion itself, and the millions of innocent Muslims who had nothing to do with the attack. It's not only wrong and unfair, it's illogical. And, it doesn't just apply to Islam but to any practice or belief people denigrate.

What I'm looking for is facts and that means looking at all sides of an issue. You think I'm defending Muhammad but I believe Islam is just the haters' cause du jour. I'd defend peoples' right to believe in Jesus, Buddha or any other religious figure.

You asked if I bothered to read from WikiIslam and I did. All those criticisms have been around for the ten years or so that I've been on forums. Did you ever bother to read sites that were favorable to Islam? Why are you so seemingly hell-bent on believing the worst, and dismissing out of hand anything that clashes with your viewpoint? I find that illogical.

Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih Bukhari Vol. 5, Book 58, Number 234)

Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Bukhari Vol. 5, Book 58, Number 236)

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/...rces/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/058.sbt.html

Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). (Sahih Bukhari Vol. 7, Book 62, Number 88)

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/...rces/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/062.sbt.html

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari Pg. 143, Vol. 13) (Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151)

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/...rces/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/073.sbt.html

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. (Abu Dawud Book 41, Num. 4915)

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/...ces/texts/muslim/hadith/abudawud/041.sat.html

Post 57.

"However, there are two points that the reader should keep in mind, while considering these narratives as evidence for the author's opinion: Firstly, none of these narratives expressly state Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage; and secondly, all of these narratives are also reported by Hisham Ibn Urwah on the authority of his father. Keeping the second point in mind, it should be clear these narratives, reported by the Hisham and Urwah, cannot be presented as support for the narratives, also reported by the same narrators. All the criticisms that I had given on the narrators in my previous responses, obviously, apply to this one as well, as it is reported on the authority primarily of the same individuals.

In view of this fact, it should be clear that the whole issue once again boils down to the lack of any sound reasons to believe that Ayesha (ra) was nine at the time of her marriage, especially when there are other reports, which clearly imply contrary information."


There are a vast number of Islamic sources which reveal Muhammad for who and what he was: a violent thug, a hypocrite, and a morally perverted man.

There are an even greater number that refute your portrayal and I'm betting you didn't read a single one.

In addition to the overwhelming evidence that Aisha was nine years old when he had sex with her...

Overwhelming evidence on critical websites, yet one of my websites says:

"...the generally held view regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is not based upon contradiction-free information."

Does that register with you or will you dismiss it?

...it is also on record that he condoned wife beating (he beat Aisha, too), prostitution, suicide, lying, and murder. Again, all from Islamic sources...

And here is a refutation of all the above, also from an Islamic source.

http://www.systemoflife.com/answering-islamophobes

Muhammad was not a holy man. He may be your prophet, but he is certainly not a prophet of God.

He's not my prophet because I'm a Catholic. But I was taught to respect others' beliefs and separate truth from lies.
 
Rana,

Female circumcision (mutilation) is common practice in Somalia and other Islamic countries, such as Saudi Arabia. This practice is accepted in those cultural contexts, but does that make it morally acceptable?

That is the great flaw of moral relativism: its defense of every sort of evil.

Female circumcision predated Islam.

"A common phenomenon which has been regretfully associated almost exclusively with Islam is the various forms of female genital cutting, or FGC[1]. Although many of those who are involved in this act attribute to the religion of Islam, the majority of the forms of FGC present in the world today which are acts truly abominable, acts of which the religion of Islam is innocent. In no way does Islam condone these actions, and they should be looked at something purely culture and not Islamic. Amnesty International asserts, “FGC [female genital cutting] predates Islam and is not practiced by the majority of Muslims, but has acquired a religious dimension.”[2] The Female Genital Cutting Education and Networking Project states, “...it is not an Islamic practice. FGC is a cross-cultural and cross-religious ritual. In Africa and the Middle East, it is performed by Muslims, Coptic Christians, members of various indigenous groups, Protestants, and Catholics, to name a few.”[3] One sect of Jews, the Falashas, also circumcise both sexes.[4] We will first look into the various types of FGC, and then examine why various cultures implemented these techniques upon their female constituencies."


http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/438/
 
not at all, and i've never heard of those two sources. you obviously have a limited understanding of islamic sources. tell me, have you ever gone to an islamic board and debated the issue? if not, i suggest you try it, you will get many more sources other than your two BS sources above.

i don't know if the sources researched or given to me are right, i simply informed you that rushing to the conclusion you did is not wise. you stated your belief as fact, whereas i simply pointed out it is factually incorrect for you to so.

see the difference?

Uh, WikiIslam is what I've been arguing about with Voltaire and Craig Winn is an author in that same camp. So if you think they're BS sources, good. Finally you're admitting that their lies and sweeping generalizations about Muslims are bogus.

Your spin is hilarious. You wrote: "how do you know its wrong? you're arbitrarily choosing which islamic sources to consider accurate...the majority have her age at 9 when muhammad consummated his marriage to her...some have it at 6.."

You're a critic of Islam and take as gospel that the consummation happened when Ayesha was nine. Why do you believe something contrary to what Arab scholars have explained over and over?

I can say it's strongly probable I've studied Islam more than you. Your mind is made up to believe the negative if you believe "the majority" (doubtful claim) about consummation.
 
No, the majority as in several canonical Hadith collections, including Sahih al-Bukhari and Sunan Abu Dawood, which you would know if you had examined the sources cited on WikiIslam, and if you had a shred of intellectual honesty...

You asked if I bothered to read from WikiIslam and I did. All those criticisms have been around for the ten years or so that I've been on forums. Did you ever bother to read sites that were favorable to Islam? Why are you so seemingly hell-bent on believing the worst, and dismissing out of hand anything that clashes with your viewpoint?

Total intellectual dishonesty.
 
Uh, WikiIslam is what I've been arguing about with Voltaire and Craig Winn is an author in that same camp. So if you think they're BS sources, good. Finally you're admitting that their lies and sweeping generalizations about Muslims are bogus.

Your spin is hilarious. You wrote: "how do you know its wrong? you're arbitrarily choosing which islamic sources to consider accurate...the majority have her age at 9 when muhammad consummated his marriage to her...some have it at 6.."

You're a critic of Islam and take as gospel that the consummation happened when Ayesha was nine. Why do you believe something contrary to what Arab scholars have explained over and over?

I can say it's strongly probable I've studied Islam more than you. Your mind is made up to believe the negative if you believe "the majority" (doubtful claim) about consummation.

stop the bullshit christie....i never took as gospel her age. go back and read what i said.

you're relying on weak islamic sources while IGNORING the strong sources such as the hadiths.
 
1. its important to note zappa does not deny he has been informed of maineman's actual stalking and threats by myself and the mods. <-- that is very important, as it lends strong evidence to my statement that zappa "must" approve of maineman's stalking as zappa continually mocks me and insults me regarding maineman's actual stalking. it is my belief that zappa absolutely approves of MM's stalking, if he didn't, why would he mock me about any comments i have made regarding the stalking and threats? zappa said i made 5 or 6 threads about maineman's stalking. that is a lie. he will not, nor can he ever produce those threads.

2. zappa cannot find anyone else who talks about maineman more than he does. when he fails with me, he brings up maineman. as if maineman is this great hero of zappa. as if maineman is the holy poster and yurt is so evil.

3. the larger question is --> why does zappa repeatedly bring up maineman to me?

^ that is the bottom line.



Too bad so sad...

Sorry Chachi but your "beliefs" don't amount to PROOF of anything...

TRY AGAIN...still waiting for PROOF.

SHOW PROOF that "I talk about maineman more than anyone else on the board lately"

aaaaaand

SHOW PROOF that "I approve" of mm's stalking...YOU said you "always provide proof of what you claim"...so how's about actually PROVIDING SOME for once?
 
proof has been given.

why does zappa repeatedly bring up maineman to me? <-- why are you such a pussy and can't answer that?

just more proof that what i said is absolutely true.
 
proof has been given.

why does zappa repeatedly bring up maineman to me? <-- why are you such a pussy and can't answer that?

just more proof that what i said is absolutely true.


Well thank you for admitting you were lying earlier when you made those totally ridiculous allegations.

I, and everyone knew you had no proof so it was just better for you and everyone that you admitted as much right away and saved yourself a lot of time lying your way out of your predicament.
 
Well thank you for admitting you were lying earlier when you made those totally ridiculous allegations.

I, and everyone knew you had no proof so it was just better for you and everyone that you admitted as much right away and saved yourself a lot of time lying your way out of your predicament.

you're the one who lied by claiming i made 5 or 6 threads about maineman...i asked you to link up and of course you never did. i proved each and every claim i made.

you continue to provide more proof by not answering why you REPEATEDLY bring up maineman to me. if you didn't support his stalking, there would no reason for you to REPEATEDLY insult me over maineman's stalking. if you truly believed i was in the right, why do you REPEATEDLY mock me about maineman?

and you lied again above by claiming "i admitted i was lying." i never admitted that. and you lied about "everyone"...why don't you man up and answer the question zappa. stop being such a pussy.
 
you're the one who lied by claiming i made 5 or 6 threads about maineman...i asked you to link up and of course you never did. i proved each and every claim i made.

you continue to provide more proof by not answering why you REPEATEDLY bring up maineman to me. if you didn't support his stalking, there would no reason for you to REPEATEDLY insult me over maineman's stalking. if you truly believed i was in the right, why do you REPEATEDLY mock me about maineman?

and you lied again above by claiming "i admitted i was lying." i never admitted that. and you lied about "everyone"...why don't you man up and answer the question zappa. stop being such a pussy.

whats the matter zappa? too chicken to answer a simple question...

LOL
 
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