Public Union Reality
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Liberty
Libertarian Minded
Great post!
What more can be said?
I think the union workers have no clue how much taxpayers are pissed off.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
the libs on this board have no idea....just read bsgrn's posts....
Great post!
What more can be said?
I think the union workers have no clue how much taxpayers are pissed off.
I have heard the opposite, so I guess it boils down to who you get your information from these days.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
That says it all right there.
Liberty
Libertarian Minded
The elections of 2012 will reflect the truth, unless the elections are rigged. I have a feeling that the "tax payer" will be more motivated. Their numbers are much greater than the union numbers.
That being said, trusting the republican party is like trusting a drunk with (your) alcohol.
One things for sure, tax payers are pissed off.
Big time.
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Don't members of unions pay taxes in america?
There are two kinds of unions in the US- private and public.
Many "public empoyees" often do not have to pay into Social Security. The income taxes they pay are merely recycled dollars that public employee jobs and services consume.
I read on a blog an idea that has some merit.
"The only government workers we need are Police and Firemen... the rest could be outsourced into the community. Construction, roadwork, electrical, and more. It would generate more jobs and create competition, a boon to taxpayers"
cawacko
Well-known member
You've heard taxpayers aren't upset these days?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Yea..its just more right wing class warfare bullshit. They seem to want to get rid of the middle class for some reason.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
No, we've heard that about 2/3 rd of Americans are pissed off that right wing nuts are attempting to legislate our rights away. It aint going to work. Ya'll are on the wrong side of history. Budgets can be balanced with out taking away the rights of working people and paying for short falls on their backs. We need to stop corporate well fare and this corruption of giving irresponsible tax cuts at times of both fiscal crises and historically low tax rates. I think the fucking hypocrisy of John Kasich to give his incoming executive staff huge pay raises on the tax payers dime while giving 15% pay cuts to public service workers while also legislating away their rights is indicitive of what this is all about. You're either one of the good ole boys (the talent) and worthy of a decent standard of living of, in the right wings eyes, or you're a parasite.
Looks to me like it's the other way around. What the fuck have these guys at the top done to earn a pay raise other then to tank our economy and put our government hopelessly into debt?
They get a pay raise but teachers, policemen, firefighters, EMT's, etc get the shaft. Yea that's fair.
I've never been a partisan voter before and I've voted for faaaaar more Republicans then Democrats but in the last 10 years Republicans have gone fucking insane. That's all about to change. I couldn't live with my conscience now if I voted for a Republican. If Dems weren't such pussies I'd be well on my way to being a partisan.
Liberty
Libertarian Minded
I'm referring to public unions. They get tax payer money. Then pay taxes.
Liberty
Libertarian Minded
Union worker= Middle class?
Most people that make up the middle class are non union workers.
As a non union worker, I've said no more of my $ to the public unions, and public union workers. I've said LESS! Much less!!!
How does this make me out to be someone who wants to get rid of the middle class?
Just because they're sucking me dry (Public Unions) and I'm stopping it, I want to get rid of myself? The middle class?
Liberty
Libertarian Minded
What about the rights of the non union middle class tax payer?
They must be some really bad people for wanting their rights.
Union worker= Middle class?
Most people that make up the middle class are non union workers.
As a non union worker, I've said no more of my $ to the public unions, and public union workers. I've said LESS! Much less!!!
How does this make me out to be someone who wants to get rid of the middle class?
Just because they're sucking me dry (Public Unions) and I'm stopping it, I want to get rid of myself? The middle class?
If you review the history of the USA, the union are what helped make it strong. The busting of the unions will have the trickle down affect that the GOP are so very fond of! The myth that the unions are sucking you dry is one that has been created by the GOP to bring about the union busting cheap labor that they get their rocks off over! The doofus from Wisconsin spilled his guts on Fox news.
Union busting has been the wet dream of the GOP since they became the backbone of the Democratic donors.
They have been fighting hard to bring this about since Reagan.
They have now succeeded into making you think teachers, fire and police are your enemies that are porking out at the tax payer trough, meanwhile corporations are growing fatter behind your backs at the same trough!
cawacko
Well-known member
I have nothing to hide. I made $70k in 2008 while living in LA. LA might not be quite as expensive as SF but it's pretty damn close and it is a lot more expensive than most places in the U.S. I lived in an 800 sq.ft. one bedroom apartment in LA that I paid $2,100/mnth for.
Would you call that middle class living? Upper middle class?
My job had no involvement with a union. I got my 2008 end of the year review and they said I was doing an excellent job and they were happy with my work. In Feb 2009 they called me in and said the market sucks, you're fired.
Was I a victim of a right-wing plan to eliminate the middle class?
Why were you laid off? Did the company make a profit that year?
It is like the oil companies up on the "slope", largest profit ever made, but they were laying people off to cut costs! You know what happened, well there was a spill...and the beat goes on.
cawacko
Well-known member
Look at what this black Obama supporting union member reporter wrote today for the San Francisco Chronicle.
Oakland police, firefighter pay devouring budget
A database of local government salaries and compensation compiled by state Controller John Chiang's office shows just how out of whack pay for some California police and firefighters has become in the state's largest cities.
-- In San Francisco, a deputy chief earning $250,666 a year collected more than half a million dollars when he retired in 2009.
-- In San Jose, nine of the top 10 earners were Police or Fire Department employees. None made less than $275,000.
-- In Oakland, a police officer whose listed salary ceiling was $98,000 a year was paid $245,432.
The data collected by Chiang's office, from cities large and small, show some police and fire departments devouring local public dollars.
In Oakland, the starting pay for police officers - $70,044.96 - is higher than most other police jobs in the state.
It's no wonder Oakland can no longer afford to keep a minimum force of 832 officers and was forced to lay off 80 officers last year. This year's budget deficit is $46 million.
The case of the Oakland police officer who earned $245,432 isn't an anomaly.
According to the figures in Chiang's database, Oakland police officers and firefighters constituted 440 of the city's 500 highest-paid employees in 2009.
Chiang's public accounting was prompted by the scandal in the Los Angeles County city of Bell last year, where some city officials collected outrageous salaries: The city manager got nearly $800,000 a year, and the police chief was paid $457,000 a year.
"The purpose of this site is to make the information readily available to local taxpayers to let them know what they are paying for services," said Jacob Roper, a spokesman for Chiang's office.
But as handsomely as Oakland police officers are compensated, the city's firefighters have an even sweeter deal.
Oakland firefighters are protected by a contract with the city that ensures no layoffs, minimum staff requirements aboard fire trucks and no station closures.
"We're bad, but they're worse," said one Oakland police officer who would not be identified.
In the Oakland Fire Department, lieutenants and captains whose pay starts around $117,000 and $127,000 respectively can also earn overtime pay, which allows them to bump up their annual salaries - and pensions when they retire.
It's difficult to fault union leaders for negotiating the best deal they can for their membership. That's their job, and in Oakland, they have succeeded beyond their wildest expectations.
City officials are expected to negotiate in good faith, manage city finances and represent the public, but instead they have done everything but give away the farm.
Over the years, the elected leadership has not held the line in its labor negotiations. They have virtually handed over precious and limited financial resources not knowing how the city would meet those obligations.
Last Tuesday's council meeting offered a prime example.
The discussion focused on how the city would make a $40 million pension payment for a group of police and firefighter pensioners who retired 35 years ago.
The city had agreed to a retirement plan that provided pensions that amounted to two-thirds of police and firefighters' current salaries.
But rather than attack the spiraling cost of current police and firefighters' salaries, council member Ignacio De La Fuente proposed an annual 2 percent cap on the old system's retiree benefits.
That's backward thinking.
If the council had the gumption to address the lopsided police and firefighters' salaries that have brought the city to the verge of financial ruin, pension payments to retirees would automatically be reduced.
Unfortunately, city officials have chosen once more to come hat in hand to Oakland residents asking for more tax dollars to cover their inability to manage the city's shrinking fiscal resources.
Oakland Mayor Jean Quan is involved in ongoing discussions with the Oakland Police Officers Association, but union President Dom Arotzarena declined to offer details. If Quan truly wants to engineer a turnaround and secure the city's fiscal future, restructuring the city's public safety pay scale must be a priority.
Federal officials are focused on reducing domestic spending, and Gov. Jerry Brown has proposed a major restructuring in state services to save money. It's time for Oakland officials to do the same with its public safety costs because they are unsustainable.
To see the state controller's database on salaries and compensation in cities and counties, go to links.sfgate.com/ZKXD
Top Ten
Highest salaries and other pay in Oakland in 2009:
$251,370: Oakland Police Chief
$246,936: City Administrator
$245,432: Police Officer
$239,300: Police Officer
$238,250: Police Officer
$233,557: Fire Lieutenant
$232,185: Police Officer
$226,708: Police Sergeant
$225,197: Police Lieutenant
$222,457: Police Sergeant
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/03/11/BA8G1I8FPM.DTL
cawacko
Well-known member
I was laid off because the real estate market went to hell after the economy tanked and banks stopped lending and buyers stopped buying. There was no need to carry a large West Coast acquistion team when you aren't acquiring anything. Not sure if we made a profit or not.
For example, APFC was just one of clients that quit buying.
I know when the local police salaries are reported along with the details that some of the extreme pay was from overtime! There weren't enough officers on the force, so the others were having to work overtime.
Would you be a police officer in Oakland?
Then we will continue this debate.
They are having a hard time getting qualified police person in Alaska. I guess you get what you pay for?
Would you be a police officer in Oakland?
Then we will continue this debate.
They are having a hard time getting qualified police person in Alaska. I guess you get what you pay for?