Wis. Dems to return after Senate strips bargaining

[Mott the Hoople]

What? Jeffrey Dahmer was a serial killer. Can you get any lower freak? I am not the one running down working people. This whole deal in Wisconsin makes me sick. To hear you folks on the right demonize schoolteachers, nurses and public employees, portraying them as scum bags and slugs, and taking pleasure in seeing fellow Americans punished, dealt pay cuts, hardship and job loss is not only anti-American, it is anti-Christian. I know, I know, you all say it just about 'unions'. I don't buy it.

I'd be willing to bet that every successful person would name a teacher or coach who was instrumental in their success as mentor or as inspiration. These are people who don't choose teaching to get rich. They choose it to make a difference.

What is this country coming to? I have believe there isn't anything Republicans can do that will draw your ire. Conservatives likes to dismiss the class warfare argument as liberals envious of the wealthy. You folks are envious of peers who have something you don't have. These public employees make less than their private sector counterparts, yet you folks want to take from them because they planned ahead and took home less pay to secure their future.

Let me ask you this freak...when has Walker or any Republican asked the wealthy to share the pain? When will they be asked to sacrifice?


"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

BFG, the thing that those on the right don't get about this and why they just can't get their heads around the fact that 2/3'rds of Americans support collective bargaining as a right is that American's are real touchy about having their rights taken away from them.

I don't belong to a collective bargaining unit nor do I want to belong to one. I worked long and hard to earn the skills required to make my self marketable to a degree that it's not needed but that doesn't mean I won't defend till my last breath the right of working people to organize and collectively bargain for their fair share of the economic pie. It is their RIGHT do do so!

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

That may be true but with public sentiment at 2 to 1 against Republicans on this issue, that indicates a far greater degree of over reach then what occurred with HC reform. It will be interesting to see what the political blow back will be. One thing is for sure. This is far from over.

link? i don't believe this is accurate

 

[Bfgrn]

BFG, the thing that those on the right don't get about this and why they just can't get their heads around the fact that 2/3'rds of Americans support collective bargaining as a right is that American's are real touchy about having their rights taken away from them.

I don't belong to a collective bargaining unit nor do I want to belong to one. I worked long and hard to earn the skills required to make my self marketable to a degree that it's not needed but that doesn't mean I won't defend till my last breath the right of working people to organize and collectively bargain for their fair share of the economic pie. It is their RIGHT do do so!

I don't think they understand that it won't stop with unions. This will lower the wages of everyone if it takes hold across the country.

I try to understand their deep disdain for fellow Americans. The only parallel I can draw goes back to when I was a teen and got my Red Cross lifesaving card. I remember our teacher, who was also my football coach and gym teacher telling us the most important thing to remember is to always keep an inanimate object between yourself and a drowning victim; a flotation ring, a pole, or in open water, a shirt or your trousers. Because a drowning victim only see you as land. If they get hold of you, they will push you down to keep themselves above the surface.

The people on the right are drowning victims.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

OTE=Bfgrn;784969]Elections have consequences Yurt...they didn't in 2008. Republicans refused to participate and used words like 'Insurgency' and handing Obama his Waterloo. When Republicans were in the minority you right wingers cited POLLS as the will of the people, not elections.

wait a minute cowboy....republicans did NOT run away....yet the dems did. funny how you bitch about republicans so called refusing to participate, YET support the dems running away. thats intellectual dishonesty and just more proof you're a hack.

Now, in Wisconsin the POLLS are strongly against Walker and the Republicans, but that is now ignored.

another hilarious hack comment. in your paragraph above, you COMPLAINED that the republicans allegedly cited polls as the will of the people, not elections....and here YOU ARE citing polls as the will of the people, not elections. seriously, do you not see your blatent hypocrisy and downright intellectual dishonesty? my lord.....

What stands out to me is when Democrats are the majority we hear words like big government and overbearing government. NOW, all we hear is cheering FOR big, overbearing government. There is nothing Republicans can do that will draw the ire of the right. The more forceful and dictatorial, the more you right wingers cheer and embrace government.

unfortunately for you, this entire paragraph is not supported by reality. there is NOTHING big government about reducing union negotiating rights. further, there are plenty of pubs who criticize pubs...right on this board, but go ahead and live in delusion land as it appears that is the only way your life has any meaning.

there is nothing dictatorial about this wisconsin LEGISLATIVE action. they were constitutionally voted in and are now constitutionally passing law. when you don't approve of the law, all of a sudden is a dictatorship....but when its dems in the majority passing laws against the right's wishes....its -- elections have consequences, get in the back seat.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

BFG, the thing that those on the right don't get about this and why they just can't get their heads around the fact that 2/3'rds of Americans support collective bargaining as a right is that American's are real touchy about having their rights taken away from them.

I don't belong to a collective bargaining unit nor do I want to belong to one. I worked long and hard to earn the skills required to make my self marketable to a degree that it's not needed but that doesn't mean I won't defend till my last breath the right of working people to organize and collectively bargain for their fair share of the economic pie. It is their RIGHT do do so!

LMAO... again twit... when you simply ask 'should they be allowed to bargain collectively for their wages' most people are going to say yes.

Put it as 'should they be allowed to bargain collectively for wages if it means higher taxes or cuts in other state programs'....

I wonder if that would make a difference.

 

[Bfgrn]

link? i don't believe this is accurate

http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/mark-mellman/146901-scott-walkers-wacky-world-

With Wisconsin’s public employees already offering concessions on salaries and benefits, the real issue is collective bargaining. Here, too, the evidence indicates Walker’s views are out of touch with mainstream America.

When the USA Today/Gallup poll found 61 percent opposing a bill that would end collective bargaining for public employees, and only 33 percent in favor, some criticized the question on two related grounds. First, they observed, quite reasonably, that words like “collective bargaining” are not part of the common lexicon and therefore responses might be heavily conditioned by the poll question itself. Second, critics noted that this particular question talked about taking away “bargaining rights” — a positively charged word — and specifically mentioned highly regarded teachers.

However, the new CBS/New York Times poll employs a different question but produced remarkably similar results, increasing our confidence that the polls are tapping real, not non-, attitudes. CBS/New York Times pollsters defined collective bargaining as “negotiations between an employer and a labor union’s members to determine the conditions of employment” and found 60 percent opposed to taking collective bargaining away from “public employee unions.” Just 33 percent supported the Walker position.

By misunderstanding public opinion and misrepresenting the facts, the Walkers of the world risk further isolating the GOP.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/mark-mellman/146901-scott-walkers-wacky-world-

With Wisconsin’s public employees already offering concessions on salaries and benefits, the real issue is collective bargaining. Here, too, the evidence indicates Walker’s views are out of touch with mainstream America.

When the USA Today/Gallup poll found 61 percent opposing a bill that would end collective bargaining for public employees, and only 33 percent in favor, some criticized the question on two related grounds. First, they observed, quite reasonably, that words like “collective bargaining” are not part of the common lexicon and therefore responses might be heavily conditioned by the poll question itself. Second, critics noted that this particular question talked about taking away “bargaining rights” — a positively charged word — and specifically mentioned highly regarded teachers.

However, the new CBS/New York Times poll employs a different question but produced remarkably similar results, increasing our confidence that the polls are tapping real, not non-, attitudes. CBS/New York Times pollsters defined collective bargaining as “negotiations between an employer and a labor union’s members to determine the conditions of employment” and found 60 percent opposed to taking collective bargaining away from “public employee unions.” Just 33 percent supported the Walker position.

By misunderstanding public opinion and misrepresenting the facts, the Walkers of the world risk further isolating the GOP.

lmao...a national poll with loaded questions that have nothing to do with the local wisconsin issue

surely you can do better....

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

What? Jeffrey Dahmer was a serial killer. Can you get any lower freak?

Ok... so what you are saying is you don't like other people comparing you to a lunatic? Cool...

Yet you tried to lump Walker in with some nut from another state.... hmmmm... a tad hypocritical

I am not the one running down working people.

Neither am I. They still have the ability to seek higher wages, they still have the ability to seek higher benefits. They just don't have the ability anymore to do so via collective bargaining. They instead have to do it through a referendum. Meaning ALL of the taxpayers (union and non union) will have a voice.

Why do you want to deny that voice to the NON union working people Bfgrn? What about those working people? Are you trying to run them down???

This whole deal in Wisconsin makes me sick. To hear you folks on the right demonize schoolteachers, nurses and public employees, portraying them as scum bags and slugs, and taking pleasure in seeing fellow Americans punished, dealt pay cuts, hardship and job loss is not only anti-American, it is anti-Christian. I know, I know, you all say it just about 'unions'. I don't buy it.

I have argued as to how their benefits and wages are set. I have not demonized the teachers etc... that is simply pathetic on your part to attempt such a straw man.

Let me ask you this freak...when has Walker or any Republican asked the wealthy to share the pain? When will they be asked to sacrifice?

do the wealthy pay a higher or lower income tax rate in WI?

do the wealthy pay a higher or lower share of total income tax revenues in WI?

Feel free to answer the same for the federal level.

The real questions is.... WHY does the left continually try to demonize the most successful people?

 

[DamnYankee]

link? i don't believe this is accurate

What? You dare ask for facts to back up his emotional argument?

 

[Liberty]

It's a sad fucking day for Wisconsin.

Not for non-union tax paying workers.

It has to be the best thing they could ever have wanted from the people they elected.

They kept their word, and did what they were elected to do.

 

[Bfgrn]

wait a minute cowboy....republicans did NOT run away....yet the dems did. funny how you bitch about republicans so called refusing to participate, YET support the dems running away. thats intellectual dishonesty and just more proof you're a hack.



another hilarious hack comment. in your paragraph above, you COMPLAINED that the republicans allegedly cited polls as the will of the people, not elections....and here YOU ARE citing polls as the will of the people, not elections. seriously, do you not see your blatent hypocrisy and downright intellectual dishonesty? my lord.....



unfortunately for you, this entire paragraph is not supported by reality. there is NOTHING big government about reducing union negotiating rights. further, there are plenty of pubs who criticize pubs...right on this board, but go ahead and live in delusion land as it appears that is the only way your life has any meaning.

there is nothing dictatorial about this wisconsin LEGISLATIVE action. they were constitutionally voted in and are now constitutionally passing law. when you don't approve of the law, all of a sudden is a dictatorship....but when its dems in the majority passing laws against the right's wishes....its -- elections have consequences, get in the back seat.

Where do we start with someone as confused as you are Yurt?

Let's compare the health care bill with Walker's union busting bill OK? Obama ran on health care reform. It was in his platform. The support at the time was around 85% of Americans. Walker never uttered a single word about stripping collective bargaining rights from public unions...WHY? Because the voters would have booted his ass and elected the Democrat. So Walker was intellectual dishonesty and your support of him is just more proof you're a hack.

I did not cite polls during the health care debate, YOU folks on the right did. But NOW you not only ignore the polls, you don't even know they exist! Again, it proves you are nothing but a hack.

What Walker and the legislature did was not only dictatorial, they didn't even care if it broke the State's Open Meetings Law.


http://www.doj.state.wi.us/AWP/2007OMCG-PRO/2007_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf

Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.

 

[Liberty]

That may be true but with public sentiment at 2 to 1 against Republicans on this issue, that indicates a far greater degree of over reach then what occurred with HC reform. It will be interesting to see what the political blow back will be. One thing is for sure. This is far from over.

Let's see what happens in the next state elections. I bet that the non union tax paying working slave will rise up again.

Just like the last election.

 

[Phantasmal]

Let's see what happens in the next state elections. I bet that the non union tax paying working slave will rise up again.

Just like the last election.

I think you will be surprised, I think this back handed way of doing business will anger those who previously supported Walker and the Repubs, the people in the USA like fairness, politicians being sneaky really set people's teeth! I do not think this last move will play out the way they wished. There is already HUGE money being raised for their recalls.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Where do we start with someone as confused as you are Yurt?

Let's compare the health care bill with Walker's union busting bill OK? Obama ran on health care reform. It was in his platform. The support at the time was around 85% of Americans. Walker never uttered a single word about stripping collective bargaining rights from public unions...WHY? Because the voters would have booted his ass and elected the Democrat. So Walker was intellectual dishonesty and your support of him is just more proof you're a hack.

I did not cite polls during the health care debate, YOU folks on the right did. But NOW you not only ignore the polls, you don't even know they exist! Again, it proves you are nothing but a hack.

What Walker and the legislature did was not only dictatorial, they didn't even care if it broke the State's Open Meetings Law.


http://www.doj.state.wi.us/AWP/2007OMCG-PRO/2007_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf

Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.

i never cited polls....once again you show yourself as nothing but a liar.

when you can stop lumping me in with this mysterious homogeneous "folks" you speak of....get back to me. i've already schooled your ass on lumping me in with all the right or this group you speak of. either step up and debate me on MY stance or stfu.

simple enough?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I think you will be surprised, I think this back handed way of doing business will anger those who previously supported Walker and the Repubs, the people in the USA like fairness, politicians being sneaky really set people's teeth! I do not think this last move will play out the way they wished. There is already HUGE money being raised for their recalls.

Would that be like when the Democratic leavebaggers ran to another State and hid??

 

[Liberty]

I think you will be surprised, I think this back handed way of doing business will anger those who previously supported Walker and the Repubs, the people in the USA like fairness, politicians being sneaky really set people's teeth! I do not think this last move will play out the way they wished. There is already HUGE money being raised for their recalls.

You mean like the dems with the healthcare crap. Now we all know that the dems payed for that one, and we still have two more future senate elections (2012 & 2014) that the dems are going to get their ass handed to them again. not to mention the pres.

I hate the reps but at this point, I really hate the dems. THEY SUCK BIG TIME! It's not good that I have to depend on the reps to repeal Obamacare, but that's the best choice at this time.

 

[Bfgrn]

Ok... so what you are saying is you don't like other people comparing you to a lunatic? Cool...

Yet you tried to lump Walker in with some nut from another state.... hmmmm... a tad hypocritical




Neither am I. They still have the ability to seek higher wages, they still have the ability to seek higher benefits. They just don't have the ability anymore to do so via collective bargaining. They instead have to do it through a referendum. Meaning ALL of the taxpayers (union and non union) will have a voice.

Why do you want to deny that voice to the NON union working people Bfgrn? What about those working people? Are you trying to run them down???



I have argued as to how their benefits and wages are set. I have not demonized the teachers etc... that is simply pathetic on your part to attempt such a straw man.



do the wealthy pay a higher or lower income tax rate in WI?

do the wealthy pay a higher or lower share of total income tax revenues in WI?

Feel free to answer the same for the federal level.

The real questions is.... WHY does the left continually try to demonize the most successful people?

This bring us back to my original question a bunch of threads ago. You talk about the 'people'. Well the 'people' have the right to be told the truth. Walker never uttered a word about stripping the collective bargaining rights of public workers during his campaign. So he LIED to gain power.

You refuse to confront any moral issues, because you don't seem to have any morals. These schoolteachers, nurses and other public employees are not the cause of this problem, but they were willing to share the sacrifice. But I guess the word 'share' is not a part of the wealthy people's lexicon because the rich are exempt from any share of that sacrifice. Wisconsin has been negotiating with public unions for 52 years, and public employees still make less than their private sector counterparts. So there is no union malfeasance freak.

The malfeasance is named Walker. But there isn't anything he can do that will draw your ire.

 

[Liberty]

This bring us back to my original question a bunch of threads ago. You talk about the 'people'. Well the 'people' have the right to be told the truth. Walker never uttered a word about stripping the collective bargaining rights of public workers during his campaign. So he LIED to gain power.

You refuse to confront any moral issues, because you don't seem to have any morals. These schoolteachers, nurses and other public employees are not the cause of this problem, but they were willing to share the sacrifice. But I guess the word 'share' is not a part of the wealthy people's lexicon because the rich are exempt from any share of that sacrifice. Wisconsin has been negotiating with public unions for 52 years, and public employees still make less than their private sector counterparts. So there is no union malfeasance freak.

The malfeasance is named Walker. But there isn't anything he can do that will draw your ire.

The truth is that non union taxpaying slave workers have had it. Get over it!

 

[Bfgrn]

i never cited polls....once again you show yourself as nothing but a liar.

when you can stop lumping me in with this mysterious homogeneous "folks" you speak of....get back to me. i've already schooled your ass on lumping me in with all the right or this group you speak of. either step up and debate me on MY stance or stfu.

simple enough?

“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.”
Douglas Adams

You are nothing but a right wing hack Yurt. You look like one, and you quack like one.

simple enough?

 

[Bfgrn]

The truth is that non union taxpaying slave workers have had it. Get over it!

Well they are FREE to find new non union work to raise their pay above slave wages. Isn't that the right's response to the schoolteachers, nurses and public employees?

If that were true, then WHY DIDN'T Walker shout that he would strip collective bargaining rights from public employees during the campaign, instead of not whispering a peep about it?

And the capital would be filled with Walker supporters.