Those poor Milwaukee teachers

[Bfgrn]

Where did I state unions were the cause of the deficit? To the contrary I stated the economic situation was not their fault. What I did state is that they do need to share in the economic downturn with the private sector. What I did state is the point that you and Mott and most of the left on this board continue to ignore.... the FACT that the union bargains AGAINST the taxpayer. You refuse to answer the simple point that the money either comes from the tax payer or OTHER government programs.

There is NO need for a public union. NONE.



How many times do I have to debunk the above list of crap before you comprehend that your Dem masters lied to you?

1) HSA's benefit the healthy, not the wealthy

2) Trying to keep businesses IN STATE rather than watching them flee... just a hunch... but I bet that is a direct benefit to the unemployed and employed in WI.

3) You keep looking at the short term and pretend the long term doesn't exist.

You have not debunked anything. Do you believe if you keep spewing the same thing over and over, it will magically become true??? You have simply JUSTIFIED, like a loyal right wing parrot. The people who you claim are healthy DON'T NEED the $48 million, especially if the long term budget problems are as dire as Walker and parrot freak keep chirping.

What would replace the public unions? I am willing to bet it will be rampant nepotism and jobs for political cronies. You folks on the right profess that government can do nothing right, but SUDDENLY they can hire and fire with impunity and without corruption or political favors. WHY is that freak?

So you want the schoolteacher who educates your children, the nurse who tends to you and your family in the hospital, the EMT's who rush to the scene of your car wreck and the snow plow driver who maneuvers by your parked car at 2 AM so you can get to work at 8AM to be jobs with a high turnover and relegated to rookies and people at entry level pay scale.

You folks on the right are textbook examples of the cynic Oscar Wilde so aptly describes: "A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing."

And the right's ideas and proposals on the local, state and federal level invites the fate of Robert Frost's hired man: the fate of having "nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope."

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You have not debunked anything. Do you believe if you keep spewing the same thing over and over, it will magically become true??? You have simply JUSTIFIED, like a loyal right wing parrot. The people who you claim are healthy DON'T NEED the $48 million, especially if the long term budget problems are as dire as Walker and parrot freak keep chirping.

Wrong. I have completely debunked all of your idiocy time and again. Just because you ignore it, doesn't mean it is not there.

What would replace the public unions? I am willing to bet it will be rampant nepotism and jobs for political cronies. You folks on the right profess that government can do nothing right, but SUDDENLY they can hire and fire with impunity and without corruption or political favors. WHY is that freak?

Nothing would replace the unions. To proclaim that the government would be able to hire and fire with impunity is nothing short of a fear mongering tactic by you.

So you want the schoolteacher who educates your children, the nurse who tends to you and your family in the hospital, the EMT's who rush to the scene of your car wreck and the snow plow driver who maneuvers by your parked car at 2 AM so you can get to work at 8AM to be jobs with a high turnover and relegated to rookies and people at entry level pay scale.

So you think all the laws in place for worker protection would disappear if public unions no longer had collective bargaining rights? The idiocy of your above paragraph demonstrates that you are nothing more than a party parrot, here to spout the latest fear mongering bullshit your masters fed to you.

 

[Canceled2]

or that they fail to even get the point that what they make isn't the issue here. Why do they get to charge what the market will bear for their services but it's not ok for teachers to do so. If Teachers (or any public service employee) can obtain $100,000/year or $250,000/year or half a million per year from the market why shouldn't they be able to?

What makes them so special that they can fix the wages of others but "God Forbid" you do that to them. It's hypocritical as hell.

If a banker can charge $250,000/year for their services cause that's what the market will bear then why can't teachrs (or policemen or firemen, etc)?

Mott are you really this ignorant? Do you really not understand the finite resources a government has for public employees as opposed to an actual "market" in the private sector?

 

[Bfgrn]

Wrong. I have completely debunked all of your idiocy time and again. Just because you ignore it, doesn't mean it is not there.



Nothing would replace the unions. To proclaim that the government would be able to hire and fire with impunity is nothing short of a fear mongering tactic by you.



So you think all the laws in place for worker protection would disappear if public unions no longer had collective bargaining rights? The idiocy of your above paragraph demonstrates that you are nothing more than a party parrot, here to spout the latest fear mongering bullshit your masters fed to you.

EPIC fail. All you have done is SPIN the right's talking points and ignored the FACTS. You have proven no matter how much proof there is that the despot Walker is a liar, a man with a hidden agenda, that he even contemplated placing troublemakers into crowds of law abiding citixens and gave away 140 million dollars to his cronies, he's ALL good. It proves that the statist are on the right when their beloved authoritarians take over government and plan to punish hard working people and suck the dicks of corporate polluters.

And it proves what is an absolute FACT:

A) Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

B) Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

 

[Damocles]

Then...in your words...


Link us up...

To what? Reality? They earn more than the "market will bear", to find that out let's compare the market to the public sector:

http://www.mrswing.com/articles/The_Public_Sector_Premium_for_School_Teachers_Is_A.html

The chart (in the article) is based on Department of Education data available here for the 2007-2008 school year comparing average salaries for public and private school teachers at the elementary and secondary level. Here are some interesting (shocking?) comparisons:

1. Overall, public school teachers make a 34.11% premium compared to their public school counterparts.
2. Controlling for experience, public school teachers make a premium that generally increases with the number of years teaching, reaching a maximum premium of 49% for public school teachers with 25-29 years of experience.
3. Public school teachers with one year of experience make about the same ($42,210) as private school teachers with 25-29 years of experience
4. Comparing teachers with equal education, public school teachers earn large premiums over their private school counterparts, especially for public school teachers with less than a bachelor's degree, who earn more than twice the amount on average ($53,880) as private school teachers with the same level of education ($26,670). ($42,910).

And that doesn't even get close to counting the benefits premiums that they receive at all.

So you've been "linked up"...

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

EPIC fail. All you have done is SPIN the right's talking points and ignored the FACTS. You have proven no matter how much proof there is that the despot Walker is a liar, a man with a hidden agenda, that he even contemplated placing troublemakers into crowds of law abiding citixens and gave away 140 million dollars to his cronies, he's ALL good. It proves that the statist are on the right when their beloved authoritarians take over government and plan to punish hard working people and suck the dicks of corporate polluters.

And it proves what is an absolute FACT:

A) Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

B) Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

You truly are a moron. Every single item I posted with regards to the budget is correct. You on the other hand are the one parroting the moronic talking points fed to you by your masters.

You demonstrate that by your vitriolic bullshit above. Yet another of the lefts favorite bullshit lines 'u against the 'working' people'.

Never mind the FACT that you continue to ignore that the working people in the private sector are the ones that have to either pay for the increases in public workers benefits or watch other government programs get cut as a result.

When Obama has 'stimulus' money going out, he is trying to 'create jobs'. When Walker provides incentives for companies to keep jobs in WI, that is 'giving money to cronies'. The fact that you have the two reversed in terms of their effectiveness is quite amusing.

 

[Bfgrn]

You truly are a moron. Every single item I posted with regards to the budget is correct. You on the other hand are the one parroting the moronic talking points fed to you by your masters.

You demonstrate that by your vitriolic bullshit above. Yet another of the lefts favorite bullshit lines 'u against the 'working' people'.

Never mind the FACT that you continue to ignore that the working people in the private sector are the ones that have to either pay for the increases in public workers benefits or watch other government programs get cut as a result.

When Obama has 'stimulus' money going out, he is trying to 'create jobs'. When Walker provides incentives for companies to keep jobs in WI, that is 'giving money to cronies'. The fact that you have the two reversed in terms of their effectiveness is quite amusing.

AGAIN, do you really BELIEVE if you keep saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over that it will magically become true?

Walker is CUTTING the pay of union workers who didn't support him, and exempting union workers who did support him. HOW do you square those FACTS?

You love to call people MORONS...I guess it proves the old adage...it takes one to know one.

WHAT shared sacrifice has Walker or any other Republican extracted from the wealthy? NONE...they get a $48 million dollar frivolous tax shelter. HOW is THAT justified if the state is in dire economic straits?

We haven't even talked about the rest of Walker's 'repair bill'...a euphemism for 'destroy the middle class' bill.

The State of Wisconsin has been negotiating with public unions since 1959. In those 52 years with Democrats and Republicans in power, teachers, nurses, EMT's and snowplow drivers are not overpaid members of their communities. They make LESS than public sector employees.

 

[NOVA]

EPIC fail. All you have done is SPIN the right's talking points and ignored the FACTS. You have proven no matter how much proof there is that the despot Walker is a liar, a man with a hidden agenda, that he even contemplated placing troublemakers into crowds of law abiding citixens and gave away 140 million dollars to his cronies, he's ALL good. It proves that the statist are on the right when their beloved authoritarians take over government and plan to punish hard working people and suck the dicks of corporate polluters.

And it proves what is an absolute FACT:

A) Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

B) Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

AGAIN, do you really BELIEVE if you keep saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over that it will magically become true?

Walker is CUTTING the pay of union workers who didn't support him, and exempting union workers who did support him. HOW do you square those FACTS?

You love to call people MORONS...I guess it proves the old adage...it takes one to know one.

WHAT shared sacrifice has Walker or any other Republican extracted from the wealthy? NONE...they get a $48 million dollar frivolous tax shelter. HOW is THAT justified if the state is in dire economic straits?

We haven't even talked about the rest of Walker's 'repair bill'...a euphemism for 'destroy the middle class' bill.

The State of Wisconsin has been negotiating with public unions since 1959. In those 52 years with Democrats and Republicans in power, teachers, nurses, EMT's and snowplow drivers are not overpaid members of their communities. They make LESS than public sector employees.

Excellent rant....just excellent....

The clearest demonstration of ignorance and political hackery as I've ever seen....close enough to insanity to require medication...

It must suck to be such a loser.

 

[signalmankenneth]

Education Cuts???

Education is the last thing any state or the federal government should be cutting, we are becoming a nation of dumbasses, with the likes of the tea party kooks and others! An undereducated population is easier to control vs an educated one?!!

 

[Damocles]

AGAIN, do you really BELIEVE if you keep saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over that it will magically become true?

Walker is CUTTING the pay of union workers who didn't support him, and exempting union workers who did support him. HOW do you square those FACTS?

You love to call people MORONS...I guess it proves the old adage...it takes one to know one.

WHAT shared sacrifice has Walker or any other Republican extracted from the wealthy? NONE...they get a $48 million dollar frivolous tax shelter. HOW is THAT justified if the state is in dire economic straits?

We haven't even talked about the rest of Walker's 'repair bill'...a euphemism for 'destroy the middle class' bill.

The State of Wisconsin has been negotiating with public unions since 1959. In those 52 years with Democrats and Republicans in power, teachers, nurses, EMT's and snowplow drivers are not overpaid members of their communities. They make LESS than public sector employees.

The irony is rich. Deep irony. You can swim in it and afterward use it as a topping on your ice cream. You can put it in a fountain and use it to cover strawberries. Long toothpicks you can use to pick up the strawberries to dip under the stream of rich steamy irony pouring out of the multi-tiered fount. After that you can use it as the other half of a peanut butter and irony sandwich (the irony half, not the peanut butter one). Rarely do we get to see such rich irony streaming forth all hot and steamy and fresh like this.

And before you repeat again about how others are repeating...

Remember the strawberries.

 

[Phantasmal]

The irony is rich. Deep irony. You can swim in it and afterward use it as a topping on your ice cream. You can put it in a fountain and use it to cover strawberries. Long toothpicks you can use to pick up the strawberries to dip under the stream of rich steamy irony pouring out of the multi-tiered fount. After that you can use it as the other half of a peanut butter and irony sandwich (the irony half, not the peanut butter one). Rarely do we get to see such rich irony streaming forth all hot and steamy and fresh like this.

And before you repeat again about how others are repeating...

Remember the strawberries.

I would rather have chocolate topping, so forget the strawberries.

 

[Bfgrn]

The irony is rich. Deep irony. You can swim in it and afterward use it as a topping on your ice cream. You can put it in a fountain and use it to cover strawberries. Long toothpicks you can use to pick up the strawberries to dip under the stream of rich steamy irony pouring out of the multi-tiered fount. After that you can use it as the other half of a peanut butter and irony sandwich (the irony half, not the peanut butter one). Rarely do we get to see such rich irony streaming forth all hot and steamy and fresh like this.

And before you repeat again about how others are repeating...

Remember the strawberries.

How cute. Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace. Just because you are driven by dogma and propaganda instead of common sense and truth, doesn't make dogma and propaganda anything other than what it is.

But to you folks on the right, Walker is not a liar just like your boy Tom Tancredo is not a racist and a xenophobe.


“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.”
Douglas Adams

 

[Damocles]

How cute. Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace. Just because you are driven by dogma and propaganda instead of common sense and truth, doesn't make dogma and propaganda anything other than what it is.

But to you folks on the right, Walker is not a liar just like your boy Tom Tancredo is not a racist and a xenophobe.


“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.”
Douglas Adams

Yes, you do look like a duck, one roasted in rich creamy irony sauce. (And probably Strawberries, remember the Strawberries!)

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Education is the last thing any state or the federal government should be cutting, we are becoming a nation of dumbasses, with the likes of the tea party kooks and others! An undereducated population is easier to control vs an educated one?!!

Which is why the Dems via the public school system try to keep the population ignorant. Hence the 'teach to the lowest common denominator' mentality and the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality. Hence the reason we see the Dems fight so hard to eliminate competition via charter schools and private schools via voucher programs.

 

[tinfoil]

yep. the progressives want everyone to be the same and then they decry people for not standing out

 

[Phantasmal]

Which is why the Dems via the public school system try to keep the population ignorant. Hence the 'teach to the lowest common denominator' mentality and the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality. Hence the reason we see the Dems fight so hard to eliminate competition via charter schools and private schools via voucher programs.

Well, if you have children you know it is the public that is crying for this. I have sat through PTA meeting and school board meetings where parent complain about things being too hard, or they won't admit that their child has a learning disability or numerous other problems that teachers face.

I fight so hard against vouchers because I don't think I should pay for the rich kid to go to prep school. Charter school and private schools can be bad schools, also, and I have seen examples here in Alaska of both! I always learned that you improve the wheel instead of trying to reinvent it.
I think we should face the challenges of our public education system instead of trying to turn them into private schools where again, the poor will lose and the rich will benefit. It already happens in public schools, richer tax districts have better schools in most cases.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Well, if you have children you know it is the public the is crying for this. I have sat through PTA meeting and school board meetings where parent complain about things being too hard, or they won't admit that their child has a learning disability or numerous other problems that teachers face.

I don't disagree that some parents are a part of the problem, but it is the public school system that allows it to happen.

I fight so hard against vouchers because I don't think I should pay for the rich kid to go to prep school.

The stupidity of the above is exactly why there is a problem. You are not paying for the rich kid to go to prep school. You are allowing everyone to have the option of what school to send their kids to. If a parent is allotted $8k per kid for education... then the PARENT should decide which school to send their kid and the subsequent $8k to.

It creates competition and efficiency within education.

Charter school and provate schools can be bad schools, also, and I have seen examples here in Alaska of both!

Which means NOTHING. This is why the parents would have a CHOICE. They can CHOOSE which school to send their kids to.... whether the school is private, charter or public... the PARENT CHOOSES which is best and THAT school gets the funding for that parents child.

I always learned that you improve the wheel instead of trying to reinvent it.

No one is trying to reinvent the wheel. The voucher system IMPROVES the wheel.

I think we should face the challenges of our public education system instead of trying to them into private schools where again, the poor will lose and the rich will benefit. It already happens in public schools, richer tax districts have better schools in most cases.

The above is pure nonsense. The poor benefit in that they will get better competition for the tax dollars allotted to their kids. They won't be stuck with the leftover teachers like they are in the current public education system.

 

[Bfgrn]

Which is why the Dems via the public school system try to keep the population ignorant. Hence the 'teach to the lowest common denominator' mentality and the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality. Hence the reason we see the Dems fight so hard to eliminate competition via charter schools and private schools via voucher programs.

This is a spin off of the right wing propaganda that dems want to keep people poor, that's why they support social programs.

It is a lie. The truth is the right sees everything as a privilege...health care, education and breathing clean air.

It stems from what conservatism has always been about...building an aristocracy.

 

[Phantasmal]

I don't disagree that some parents are a part of the problem, but it is the public school system that allows it to happen.



The stupidity of the above is exactly why there is a problem. You are not paying for the rich kid to go to prep school. You are allowing everyone to have the option of what school to send their kids to. If a parent is allotted $8k per kid for education... then the PARENT should decide which school to send their kid and the subsequent $8k to.

It creates competition and efficiency within education.



Which means NOTHING. This is why the parents would have a CHOICE. They can CHOOSE which school to send their kids to.... whether the school is private, charter or public... the PARENT CHOOSES which is best and THAT school gets the funding for that parents child.



No one is trying to reinvent the wheel. The voucher system IMPROVES the wheel.



The above is pure nonsense. The poor benefit in that they will get better competition for the tax dollars allotted to their kids. They won't be stuck with the leftover teachers like they are in the current public education system.

Yeah, that is what they always promise us, competition will make it better, and you know that is just bullshit! Sometimes it ruins things instead of making them better!

Vouchers will create one hell of a mess!

The parents can choose, just like you can choose which college to send your children to, but it doesn't mean that children will be accepted! Therein lies the beginning of some VERY ugly problems! College is one thing, but grade school, the playing field should be equal for all students!

 

[Canceled2]

Public school funding is already tied to the student. This creates a very complex situation for school budgets. For instance; if a student were to be expelled a school principle knows that he then faces a shortfall for expenditures already spent...this is why so many schools fail to take action against students via expelling them. This is why there exist so many schools with students who think they are in charge...

If funding is to remain with the student, then the power to choose where the student attends school needs to be with the parent-not the school.

If funding were to be removed from the student and put with the district-the first problem I identified would be removed. What would work better would be to fund a district based on population and reevaluate that criteria every 3-5 years. This way a school would not fear loss of funding based on applying good discipline policy. That said, teachers tenure should be stopped and schools administrations should have a less restrictive battle that allows them to fire bad or unproductive teachers....

Since I do not think unions would stand for this...I submit allowing parents to choose their child’s school-whether private or public is the best solution.